Strongest 5-D Characters on the Wiki

[FoxySonicMaster108]

no i just put him there

oh lol

i thought guilty gear was 6-D before the tiering revisions but no one bothered to edit it

I heard about that, but that doesn’t seem to be case now? I feel like that would’ve been fixed by now (that and Sol’s match with Kai Ninjago happened so)

I guess until something comes up, I’d say Guilty Gear should be above Devilman for sure as the verse already has characters that use 12 layers of Magic that has Information Manip and others (although more notable examples include Sol Badguy, I-No, Happy Chaos, Axl Low, Ky Kiske) I could go on and on.

 

[KLOL506]

Hypertimeline thread going nowhere it seems aside from some minor bits about clarification (Which I strongly doubt will change the current verses anyhow).

A bigger issue now would be Invulnerability and Layers as a whole getting nuked. Battles will be hell and a half to debate again.

 

[KLOL506]

Is there a thread for this

Check the "Small Tweaks to Invulnerability" thread where Armor is proposing a name change and the "It's time we talked about layers and qualitative superiority" thread (This comment from DontTalkDT specifically).

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually the thread about layers still keeping layers, but DontTalk and Agnaa said layer isn't an absolute wincon in a vs match anymore, hax potency and other qualities are still need to be considered in a match

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Lowkey nuking layers is a good idea. It makes some matchups impossible to argue because people just spam "X character has 48582484 layers hax so it's a stomp FRA."

 

[KLOL506]

Check the "Small Tweaks to Invulnerability" thread where Armor is proposing a name change and the "It's time we talked about layers and qualitative superiority" thread (This comment from DontTalkDT specifically).

Layering should not be applied when an ability overpowers a resistance through magnitude or a quantitative threshold. Overcoming heat resistance by using hotter fire is not an example of layered fire manipulation, neither is overpowering mind resistance by focusing psionic energy from a larger number of targets down to an individual; as those are increases in magnitude. These will still be treated as an increase in potency, though.

If this passes, all verse layer chains get gutted because all of them are pretty much a potency/magnitude increase.

 

[Robo432343]

correct me if im wrong but isn't layers the best way to tell who wins in a fight? like if character A has 20 layers for all his abilities and he's fighting B who has 15 layers for all his abilities then character A simply stomps

 

[KLOL506]

Lowkey nuking layers is a good idea. It makes some matchups impossible to argue because people just spam "X character has 48582484 layers hax so it's a stomp FRA."

It's not even the nuking part that makes me angry. It's that the same man who proposed layers, DT himself, is now removing it because his verse Toaru is getting mogged for not having enough layers. It's kinda funny if you ask me.

Why even make it if you don't want it in the first place.

 

[KLOL506]

Actually the thread about layers still keeping layers, but DontTalk and Agnaa said layer isn't an absolute wincon in a vs match anymore, hax potency and other qualities are still need to be considered in a match

DontTalk's new comment implies the proposal would gut how we do layers currently, with his new proposal, verses will have to find other methods to find layers that don't involve a mere increase potency/magnitude in power.

 

[Vietthai96]

DontTalk's new comment implies the proposal would gut how we do layers currently, with his new proposal, verses will have to find other methods to find layers that don't involve a mere increase potency/magnitude in power.

Hard to do, probably there are some verses out there can get, but this just make hax layer into a pseudo-resistance negation which rather we just nuke layer altogether

 

[Vietthai96]

Anos vs Dante

Demon vs Demon. Anos's profile Dante's profile Speed equalized

vsbattles.com

lol this is a good example of whats going on right now with layers

Wait, the NEP layer is layer for state of existence ability, DontTalk comment only affect layers for offensive hax bruhhhh

 

[KLOL506]

Hard to do, probably there are some verses out there can get, but this just make hax layer into a pseudo-resistance negation which rather we just nuke layer altogether

PAIN SUFFERING AGONY TORMENT

At least we go back to 2018 era of battleboarding and can't for the life of us figure out whose hax is more potent. Makes fights more interesting anyway.

 

[KLOL506]

Wait, the NEP layer is layer for state of existence ability, DontTalk comment only affect layers for offensive hax bruhhhh

Very few verses, if at all, actually have layers for states of existence. Almost all of the verses overwhelmingly employ layers for offensive hax.

Like, how often are you going to find people even more abstract than AE1 CM1 entities?

 

[Vietthai96]

Very few verses, if at all, actually have layers for states of existence. Almost all of the verses overwhelmingly employ layers for offensive hax.

Like, how often are you going to find people even more abstract than AE1 CM1 entities?

I think we do have layered Incorporeality or Intangibility, but yeah, AE1 is very hard to have layer, almost impossible

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

DontTalk's new comment implies the proposal would gut how we do layers currently, with his new proposal, verses will have to find other methods to find layers that don't involve a mere increase potency/magnitude in power.

Hard to do, probably there are some verses out there can get, but this just make hax layer into a pseudo-resistance negation which rather we just nuke layer altogether

D&D just keeps on winning

 

[Vietthai96]

D&D just keeps on winning

 

[KLOL506]

D&D just keeps on winning

 

[Deonment]

Does that mean VHD just incons with DBH because of their conceptual aura effects

I mean I'd argue D just beats them anyways, but that'd require actually going back and arguing about the DBH aura stuff. And to be quite honest, I do not care. D is not only not a character I am a particular fan of (mostly because I only know of him in the periphery), but also because I cannot be ****** to argue with DBH supporter about this. So yeah, they can share the spot.

Part me of me feels D’s profile is massively outdated.

I mean by what measure? D's profile was updated in March of last year, and I'd say its format is entirely fine, better than the average, even. But if you mean in terms of content, then yeah, sure, could be, no idea how true that could be.

Hard to do, probably there are some verses out there can get, but this just make hax layer into a pseudo-resistance negation which rather we just nuke layer altogether

No?
The intent is that hax layers are simply just another measure by which the strength of a hax can be measured, in parallel with potency and other mechanics
It's just a matter of comparing the things in their relevant thread, which is entirely preferred if I'm to be honest, considering how many verses actually use potency

DontTalk's new comment implies the proposal would gut how we do layers currently, with his new proposal, verses will have to find other methods to find layers that don't involve a mere increase potency/magnitude in power.

And layers are still as easy to get as before, even if the system of the verse uses a UES for its layers, the main thing that segment is about is cutting out layered fire manip and layered poison manip stuff, if someone uses mindhax on a hundred people and can focus that on a single person, that hax is more potent, and thus stronger, through a quantative means, meanwhile if someone uses mindhax on someone who already resists it, even if they have it through having or manipulating stronger energies, that hax is more layered, and thus stronger, through a qualitative means.

This does mean however, that cultivation and cultivation adjacent characters. Just. Keep. Winning.

 

[EddisherSound]

Damn, Greeza's 17 now

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

correct me if im wrong but isn't layers the best way to tell who wins in a fight? like if character A has 20 layers for all his abilities and he's fighting B who has 15 layers for all his abilities then character A simply stomps

It is and honestly it worked as a pretty good metric system in my opinion. Yeah it sucked to hear your character gets outdone in terms of layers, but at least it was an accepted, straightforward way to understand why characters within the same tier were superior to one another despite having the same abilities. Really, all removing layers is going to achieve is have a bunch of people wanking tf out of their character because "well this guy is >>>>>>> x character>>>>>>>>>>y character fodder" and actual bullshit like that. Basically the same way people already are with RE

 

[Dereck03]

Honkai mfs seems to have 12-D bs, why are they allowed on the list?

 

[Shar122]

Honkai mfs seems to have 12-D bs, why are they allowed on the list?

Its insignificant 12D, not big enough to be tierable in the 1-B tier.
But higher dimensional axis are still inaccessible to anything pertaining to the range of beings who can only affect 5 dimensions and onwards below it.
After all, it involves additional orthogonal directions.

 

[Deonment]

Basically the same way people already are with RE

Actually, RE does **** all and nothing rn on wiki, RE is currently only accepted to exactly what it has shown, not one toe beyond that line, quoting the page itself

Its extent and complexity only go as far its feats and scaling have gone for it, in relation up to countermeasures to powers that already exist in the setting or similar, in a case by case basis.

Layer stacking wasn't actually accepted to exist for RE (at least you only get +1 layer from it from the instance of evolving to resist a hax, and then no further) beforehand, and unless you were from AWLBA (which isn't an exception due to whatever, its an exception due to it having showings), you got your +1 layer and that was it

 

[Killerdrone123]

Honkai mfs seems to have 12-D bs, why are they allowed on the list?

I beleive the one's that don't have 12d stuff can be included on the list

There extra dimensional range is preety much useless

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I beleive the one's that don't have 12d stuff can be included on the list

There extra dimensional range is preety much useless

Unfortunately it's pretty difficult to tell which characters do and don't have the 12D stuff (combat applicable) unless you're knowledge about the verse or go through every profile, for example she clearly has 12 stuff.

On a side note can we just acknowledge the insane power creep HSR went through? Like I get the premise was a cosmic fantasy while traveling on a space train but already having tier 5 to 4 feats with at least tier 2 deities relatively early in the games cycle and now even the mid tier characters are L1-C these days (those without useful 12D stuff) and that's after the verse got downgraded repeatedly too.

These gacha games don't mess around.

This is probably the only time I'll commet on this thread this year lol!

 

[Killerdrone123]

Unfortunately it's pretty difficult to tell which characters do and don't have the 12D stuff (combat applicable) unless you're knowledge about the verse or go through every profile, for example she clearly has 12 stuff.

On a side note can we just acknowledge the insane power creep HSR went through? Like I get the premise was a cosmic fantasy while traveling on a space train but already having tier 5 to 4 feats with at least tier 2 deities relatively early in the games cycle and now even the mid tier characters are L1-C these days (those without useful 12D stuff) and that's after the verse got downgraded repeatedly too.

These gacha games don't mess around.

This is probably the only time I'll commet on this thread this year lol!

Most of the 12d stuff is just range and not some actual potency as they scale to compact dimensions only one's with hde get any benefit

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Actually, RE does **** all and nothing rn on wiki, RE is currently only accepted to exactly what it has shown, not one toe beyond that line, quoting the page itself

Layer stacking wasn't actually accepted to exist for RE (at least you only get +1 layer from it from the instance of evolving to resist a hax, and then no further) beforehand, and unless you were from AWLBA (which isn't an exception due to whatever, its an exception due to it having showings), you got your +1 layer and that was it

This entire thread would say otherwise lmao, GoW fans were arguing exactly what you just said

 

[Deonment]

This entire thread would say otherwise lmao, GoW fans were arguing exactly what you just said

Seen the exact opposite elsewhere, but if I need to grab the og overhaul thread I will

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Seen the exact opposite elsewhere, but if I need to grab the og overhaul thread I will

I mean, I'm not really trying to contend, argue for, against, or be for anything. I just pointed it out because it's so ironic how stupidly incoherent and inconsistent the wiki can be with upholding it's standards lol. It's kinda whatever at the end of the day, battle boarding is one of the worst experiences on this site, double so for popular verses

 

[RM97]

Part me of me feels D’s profile is massively outdated.

It is, that's why I'm going to revise the whole thing top to bottom.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Don't think anyone will have an issue with it, and if they do they can make a matchup ig. Tho...whatever happened to DBH's 3 state para phys?

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Got removed + it was useless hax.

 

[Robo432343]

Don't think anyone will have an issue with it, and if they do they can make a matchup ig. Tho...whatever happened to DBH's 3 state para phys?

Dragon Ball's paraconsistent/nonduality removal

Here it's mentioned that Time Power is a nonduality because it contains history and nonexistent history but as some users have pointed out recently that it wouldn't qualify as you would need to prove nonexistent history serves as a direct negation to history (for example it needs to be like...

vsbattles.com

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Make anos vs Yang Qi.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Dragon Ball's paraconsistent/nonduality removal

Here it's mentioned that Time Power is a nonduality because it contains history and nonexistent history but as some users have pointed out recently that it wouldn't qualify as you would need to prove nonexistent history serves as a direct negation to history (for example it needs to be like...

vsbattles.com

Oh damn nvm then, I was gonna ask how ND and its states could interact with things like NEP 2 and vice versa, but ig it'd have ended in an incon anyways

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

actually doesn't anos stomp amaterasu if speed is not equalized?

Yeah, but isn't this entire list based on SBA?

 

[Robo432343]

Yeah, but isn't this entire list based on SBA?

yes but SBA does not assume speed is equalized

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

yes but SBA does not assume speed is equalized

I confused thread rules with SBA, yeah nvm. I guess you can put Anos on par with, or above Amaterasu if you want

 

[Vietthai96]

3. Li Qiye / Master Unit: Amaterasu

Huh?, this is new lol

 

[Dereck03]

yes but SBA does not assume speed is equalized

Put those 3 in the same spot then, or 4 if we include Graham too.