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Street Fighter Speed revision

Isn't each ending a possibility of what could've happened in the same timeline? And the difference in the canon one being simply that Bison didn't do this attack like he did in the other ones? If so, I don't see reason to downgrade. As that would heavily indicate that Bison as a whole can do this, but that he ended up not.
 
THe problem with the chun ki it's completely different from the other endings, it's not like the difference between it and the canon ending is like bison wins or something. For starters Chun Li DEFEATS alpha 3 bison which shouldn't happen. Second idk what matts talking about with the 90% of the endings having thst ending cause that particular feat with the satellite is exclusive to the chun li ending.

Also what if endings are tricky and subjective thing to decide whether or not it should be accepted because literally with what ifs animators or writers can do whatever they want with what if endings as they are not part of the series and continuity so nothing restricts what the characters can do. That's why chun li can do something like defeat alpha 3 bison or Charlie surviving that event.

also a attack being like 1000X stronger than one normal move is something common. Prime example star busing roaring cannon with boros.
 
@Grudge

No, man. Bison dashes at speeds comparable to the laser in 90% of the endings, meaning that Bison can indeed do it. Bison isn't faster in those endings than in canon. He moves at speeds comparable to the laser in most endings. If you have to assume that he is hundreds of times faster in those endings than in canon you are doing something wrong. The only thing that is impossible is those characters defeating Bison, not Bison performing the feat.

And no, it definitely isn't tricky as endings are almost always what-ifs and in plenty of cases canon as well, with the only non-canon bit being the character defeating the villain (Sakura's ending in Super Street Fighter IV is 100% canon, but she didn't defeat the final boss).

And nobody is talking about strength, we are talking about speed, and once again you cannot prove that that particular Ki-Blast from Akuma is faster than any other particular one he fires, as using apparent gameplay speed is a terrible argument.
 
But...that doesn't work because we used that to determine his tiering altogether, durability and all.

Also, what if's are what would happen if it went that route. It implies that the character can do that, and would if X didn't happen. Glacius from Killer Instinct is 5-B via tech via a What If ending.
 
I remember that we discussed in this thread that Bison is not comparable to the laser in speed.
 
Yes he is, you'd have to be outright lying to deny it.

https://gyazo.com/33878fe4c9d95fd99bf8e38c1aa8285c

See? They move at comparable speeds and a calculation was done.

The argument that they didn't involved headcanons, claiming that this was just a "Dramatic scene where it kept cutting between two moving objects as they appeared"... Even though we see them both together on screen.
 
Then i will have to repeat Grudgeman comment: I saw the clip, I've seen it dozens of times, the laser and bison weren't going at similar speeds, this is a common trope used in the movies or tv shows as well when characters and Some object are about to hit at each other so the camera pans out and switches between characters.
 
I agree with Matt here. It seems pretty clear that they were moving at comparable speeds.
 
>Debunk a statement in the previous comment

>You use the debunked statement as a response.

lmao.

Calculations using the scene manage to find the speed, and they are comparable. You cannot use this "It's just a trope" argument to deny mathematics.

And seriously, just look at the scene with honesty for a moment:

https://gyazo.com/33878fe4c9d95fd99bf8e38c1aa8285c

They ARE moving at comparable speeds when shown within the same frame. You cannot use this "trope" argument when it isn't even what happens. And the comparison is not valid.
 
I'm still not sure if they are at the same speed (I will watch at slow-mo), but M. Bison is reaching the speed of the laser, so even if it is non-canon it's a possibility for M. Bison to show his speed since he likely did not demostrated it in the canon, so i agree.
 
That's goes against everything this site is about, especially when it comes to speed calcs. That kinda spits in the face some of the calc group members, as a lot of calcs are about scaling one speed to the movement of another object. Relativistic Link is the first thing that comes to mind, and Superhuman Jerry Smith (poor example, but the point is still there). Basically, every light dodging feat, bullet dodging feat, or lightning dodging feat would be downgraded. And that's not even panning.
 
I don't really mind Bison being scaled to the laser; it's a matter of "same Bison, different scenario". However, whether or not this calculation is anomalous should be taken into consideration.
 
It's not. There are other, even better speed feats in Street Fighter and literally anyone can dodge bullets and Bison is a God-Tier.
 
Welp, let's take into acount that this scene and the calc behind it is valid, Is there any other speed feat comparable to this one?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Alpha 3 Bison.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's only Alpha 3 in general, i think Alpha Bison sounds better because that was Bison first body and most powerful one (Until SFV thanks to the moon's) and because he can fight Rose in Alpha and Determined Charlie in Alpha 2, which is canon.
 
I was under the impression that Alpha 3 is stronger than Alpha 2, but you are probably right. It is his strongest body sans SFV.
 
Welp, being 3 times faster than someone stronger sound a little odd for me, even more considering that the stronger one weren't able to react/dodge the laser. We gonna need more feats.
 
@Antonio

No, that was not my argument.

My argument is that even people weaker have better / comparable feats. It's not anomalous nor is it an outlier.
 
Have already linked it. Akuma's special-move Ki Blast speed. Scales to things like Shinku Hadoukens, which you can dodge in gameplay.
 
Mmm, I noticed that the Vivi's calc is wrong in the KE section, it use the distance from the satellite instead of the speed.

Question about the scene: where is located the capital that Bison is trying to destroy?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Scales to things like Shinku Hadoukens, which you can dodge in gameplay.
Click to expand...
That's incredibly suspect, not only is the "ki blast" from a different technique from the hadoukens it is also unwise to use gameplay as a means to scale characters. We'd end up with Oni and Dan sharing the same statistics.
 
It's not suspect. More suspect is assuming that one Ki Blast done by Akuma is hundreds of times faster than any other he ever done when nothing implies nor indicates that.

The second phrase is an argument from exaggeration. No one would ever scale Dan to Oro. My point is that Street Fighter characters can canonically dodge and react to each other's Ki Blasts.
 
Would it be unwise to assume Akuma's better forms are slower? I can get behind basically no one scaling to it but Akuma himself in a stronger form should get the speed scaling and everyone who scales to that form.
 
"More suspect is assuming that one Ki Blast done by Akuma is hundreds of times faster than any other he ever done when nothing implies nor indicates that."

Different name of technique; a clear difference in speed if you were to actually compare speeds shown here to literally every other instance Akuma (or anyone else) fires a hadouken. That would seem to indicate a difference in speed. Or, at the very least that ki blasts vary greatly in speed; using only a single, potentially anomalous showing isn't a wise idea.

"My point is that Street Fighter characters can canonically dodge and react to each other's Ki Blasts."

And how is dodging hadoukens in gameplay canon at all? What is canon, is whats shown in cutscenes, comics and animated films. Not gameplay.
 
"a clear difference in speed if you were to actually compare speeds shown here to literally every other instance Akuma (or anyone else) fires a hadouken."

You can't use that to compare. These characters are so fast you'd literally never see any of their action if it wasn't slown down for the audience.

And no, there is no evidence that one energy beam is faster than literally any other in the franchise. It'd be akin to suggesting that Freeza's Supernova Speed is faster than any other he fires simply because it has the fastest calculatable feat.

They dodge it in cutscenes, comics and animated films too.
 
"You can't use that to compare. These characters are so fast you'd literally never see any of their action if it wasn't slown down for the audience."

Ah I see, so when Akuma fires a ki blast we can safely assume that the camera or whatever hasn't been fiddled with but other showings such as a solitary Ryu firing a hadouken into a waterfall suddenly it's a case where the camera has been tinkered with. Thanks to the background phenomena that goes on in fight scenes (such as wind pushing the grass and the flow of a waterfall) you can make out which scenes are and aren't slowed down for the audience.

"Freeza's Supernova Speed is faster than any other he fires simply because it has the fastest calculatable feat."

It's in a manga with non-moving panels there is no way to prove such a thing, I'm talking about a fighting game series where you can clearly spot the differences in speed from cutscenes and animated films.

"They dodge it in cutscenes, comics and animated films too."

I'm aware of that, they are also much more slower than what has been shown here.
 
So what if they can appear slower? That doesn't mean that the feat is unreliable, unless you naively expect every scene to have consistent speed when that isn't even the 10th priority of the developers.
 
AMM has it right, there are certain elements that allow us to determinate if a scene is in slow motion or not, like speed refernces or free falling. Also, if making ultra fast the characters in animations isn't priority, what's the difference from not making them ultra slow? That's why I don't like calculate speed from not given speed, it only depend of the animation budget.

Going with Bison feat again, he actually didn't react to the laser, and analysing the scene: he was going from a Shadaloo base to a capital, most likely from Shangai since it cames from the same direction of the laser, so is either Bison travelling from Brazil to Shangai, or from Shadaloo base in Shangai to Bangkok. Would need more details about it.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
So what if they can appear slower? That doesn't mean that the feat is unreliable, unless you naively expect every scene to have consistent speed when that isn't even the 10th priority of the developers.
Click to expand...
I couldn't care less what the priorities or circumstances of the developers/animators are, if a ki blast is shown to far surpass literally all other showings of hadoukens by a hilarious degree then thats how it is. Whether we like it or not.
 
No, he definitely did. He moved at speeds comparable to the laser. You can clearly see it.

"That's why I don't like calculate speed from not given speed, it only depend of the animation budget."

???

What even is this argument. Are you going to bring up "This is not reliable, it's just a fancy scene to look cool" fallacy? The speed of Akuma's energy blast was calced Mach 1200 (300+ when downplayed), and that can scale to the characters.
 
I personally do not mind scaling Bison's speed from the cutscene laser.

However, Matthew, never be rude to other staff members by saying "lmao" and similar. If you cannot switch back your behaviour from sites that allow that sort of thing, stop visiting them.
 
Okay, thank you.

And you are right about that. I am sorry if I annoyed anyone.

I could barely think straight today, so this won't ever repeat itself, as I'm making an active effort not to.
 
So if Bison's feat is so debatable, will you at least accept Akuma's speed upgrade and chars that scale to him for now (as I said, Akuma uses the Sekia Kuretsuha technique in SF5 on a regular basis)?
 
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