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Street Fighter Speed revision
- Thread starter Grudgeman1706
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #122
I was gunna ask you that, the question is do you want me or Matt to do it?Antvasima said:
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@Grudgeman1706 Is Gill's Street Fighter 3rd Strike Ending Canon?
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It isn't, but Gill is so much more powerful than everyone else that him parting the sea isn't really an outlier.
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Sadly no it is not, but not like it matters, we already know gill is incredibly powerful, while his character is mysterious he's still one of SFs strongest characters. However Who he is stronger than is up to debate.Kryptonian Supremacy said:
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Right.
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Both by lists, be them primary or secundary canon, and by feats will put him at above everyone minus Oni and Ingrid.
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yeah that's trueMatthew Schroeder said:
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Huh, well if that's the case, then Ryu & Ken are gonna have a doozy taking him down in the Next game.
Let alone Gill's Resurrection ability.
Should Be interesting.
Let alone Gill's Resurrection ability.
Should Be interesting.
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Can Someone Legitimately Explain To Me Why We Accept Non Canon Character/Character Stats But Not Non Canon Street Fighter Ending Feats On The Vs Battle Wiki Characters Profiles?
Like SERIOUSLY, Evil Ryu And Cody Travers Strength + The Entire Concept Of Oni Akuma Is Non Canon.
Yet They're Referenced On The Character Profiles.
Let Alone The Fact That All Street Fighter Endings Are What-If's And Are Completely Plausible.
I'll Wait.
Like SERIOUSLY, Evil Ryu And Cody Travers Strength + The Entire Concept Of Oni Akuma Is Non Canon.
Yet They're Referenced On The Character Profiles.
Let Alone The Fact That All Street Fighter Endings Are What-If's And Are Completely Plausible.
I'll Wait.
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Look man, you need to stop typing in such a manner. I've told you before and if you reply to me the same way like how you're typing already, I will report you.Kryptonian Supremacy said:
I have no problem with looking at the endings of Evil Ryu and Oni to determine their statistics and they don't really contradict any of the established canon (besides from the characters doing so.)
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My Bad man, won't happen again.
But by that same logic, The feats in M. Bison's, Chun-Li's, And Gill's Endings Can Count Since They Don't Contradict the established Canon either.
So I Guess I Can Use Them In Debates From Now On.
But by that same logic, The feats in M. Bison's, Chun-Li's, And Gill's Endings Can Count Since They Don't Contradict the established Canon either.
So I Guess I Can Use Them In Debates From Now On.
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@Kryptonian supremacy, no it isn't, the thing is Yes the concept of Oni akuma is noncannon(however it's hinted he could possibly exist some day in a future game but for now he doesn't technically exist.) also evil ryu and onus stats don't contradict or collied with anything unlike chun lis ending. Also take note we don't use evil Ryus or oni endings from the games to anything, and chun lis ending also has a tons of impossible or completely different things happen in chun lis ending (Charlie never dying, the base is never destroyed, Alpha 3 bison getting defeated by chun li), . So comparing them is arbitraryKryptonian Supremacy said:
Also codys full strength was also noted by E Honda as being enourmous as he does actually hold back(whether or not he's top tier canonically a god tier is up for debate until we see further feats.). Also Evil Ryus stats are unknown we just put him above base ryu cause it's obviously stronger, (Ryus stats come from PoN ryu which is canon) Also it's shown in SSFIV that Ryus satsui no hado was sealed away by gouken using the power of nothingness, and thus gone. If you want maybe we could write a note saying that evil ryu is technically non canon and can't be scaled to anybody but himself. he does have stats if you want to be used (evil ryu is above shin akuma as he defeated him in his alpha 3 ending) so yah someone should still make a key saying (noncanon) evil ryu . I guess the same with oni since oni doesn't exist(yet) but if people want to use his stats, we can't stop them.
I'm sidetracking a little, however the usage of chun lis ending is still not usable what's o ever sorry.
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You Can't Pick And Choose.
Canon Or Non Canon.
Pick One.
I'll Wait.
Canon Or Non Canon.
Pick One.
I'll Wait.
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I don't care about the actual events.
Only the feats.
Because They are all that matter in this Situation.
Only the feats.
Because They are all that matter in this Situation.
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Tbh I would like it being used to boost the verse, but as grudge points out the consistency of the events leading to it are very questionable to consider it a proper "what if" scenario and to add to that the beam wasn't actually powered by Bisons psycho power unlike the time where it was calced to be mach 300+ so that puts the beam speed into jeopardy as well.
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The beam doesn't have to be comprised of M. Bison's Psycho Power.
Bison's Psycho Crusher Has Comparable Speed To The Beam.
Is The Whole Point.
Bison's Psycho Crusher Has Comparable Speed To The Beam.
Is The Whole Point.
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@Matthew Schroeder This thread does not appear to go anywhere. Would you like to create a new one, with an initial summary post of the relevant issues, in order to get more community input, similarly to what you did for the current Sonic discussion?
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@Antvasima should we still let Matt write the note about the reason why we can't use the chun li ending for the street fighter verse profile, or should I do it. At this point I've (no offense to anyone) entered a circular argument and it looks like most everyone has agreed with not using the chun li ending.Antvasima said:
I do not mind talking about other issues on a new thread.
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That is fine, I was just asking since it seems Matt hasn't said anything at the moment about agreeing to do that.Antvasima said:
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Yes, as I alluded to earlier, I would prefer more community input regarding what feats we should or should not count. If we currently use some endings, but not others, that does in fact seem contradictory.
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I don't believe we use any noncanon feats for the street fighters(mostly every top, mid to low tier minus the fodder like dan or Sean, are scaled to chun lis kikiosho feat which happens shortly after the events of SF 2, so that is fine.)Antvasima said:
All God tiers are scaled to akumas island punch which happens in street fighter alpha 2 (Ryus ending I believe) and it is canon, so nothing wrong with AP
as for speed, everyone is scaled to guiles or Nash's sonic boom attack. Currently all speed feats are in this range or lower.(minus the chun li feat which we have thoroughly discussed)
Currently the only noncanon thing we use to scale was the chun li ending, but now that is debunked and done. So I don't see any problem.
We should only count feats that are established canon to scale characters or place them at their tier
Characters like evil ryu and oni can't be scaled to anybody but themselves. Which is what they are.
So what more is left to discuss ant?
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Some endings that link with the canon can be used if they never contradict the true ending then its fine to use them as feats
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I guess that is fine, bits it's preferable if their is only 1 thing different, however if that one thing heavily contradicts the story, than it can't be used.TISSG7Redgrave said:
Edit: also make sure that if the characters they fight are above their league (ie:Chun li vs m. Bison, dan vs legit anybody XD nah, but if it's someone like ryu or any top tier than automatic nope, akuma losing to anybody but a god tier or gen and ryu is a inconsistency already) 0therwise no problem.
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@@Antvasima I Never Said That Vs Battle Wiki Used Non Canon Endings.
I Said It Used Non Canon Characters And Character Strength.
I Said It Used Non Canon Characters And Character Strength.
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"Dan vs legit everyone" Someone upgrade him now XD jk but yeah i don't know which ending is legit but we have to look at all of them for feats and consistency
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Akuma has the Sekia Kuretsuha technique as one of his Critical Arts in SF5 (he can do it even in base form without the V-Trigger transformation). And it seems he doesn't put that much efforts into it and does it with one hand.
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I know it's old, but will Base Akuma and characters that scale to him get upgraded to MHS? Because Base Akuma uses the Sekia Koretsuha technique in SF5 on a regular basis. It's the same with many other most powerful techniques of Akuma, it's his tradition to use a new technique in a SF game, and then having it as his new super move in the next SF game. It happened with the Raging Demon, Kongou Kokuretsu Zan, Demon Armageddon and now Sekia Kuretsuha, and it seems this tradition is still alive - he uses the Mudo Tensho technique in the SF5 Prologue Story, implying it will become his Super in SF6.
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I still think that the reason the characters were downgraded is very bad. Bison's feat happens in literally 90% of the Alpha 3 endings. It doesn't matter if it doesn't happen in the canon ending, as there is no indication that Bison is suddenly hundreds of times faster in those others. All the endings are what-ifs, anyway, showing what could happen. And we are generally fine with using alternate endings for Tekken.
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It doesn't have to be that fast in gameplay. It's still the same technique of the same character. And if we go by gameplay, then SF characters are faster than eye at best.
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You should never use apparent speed as an argument for anything involving characters with Supersonic+ or higher feats. If they were always depicted as as fast as they truly were, we wouldn't be able to see any of the action, and in this case it would be unable to control them.
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I agree, also Bison having a Mach 313 feat is consistent with Akuma being Mach 349.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Yes, and even if Akuma's attack there was a special move, in-gameplay you can still dodge and move at comparable speeds to stuff like a Shinku Hadouken. And suggesting that that one Special Move Ki-Blast is hundreds of times faster than any other because "They don't appear that fast" is faulty as hell.
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Agreed with Matt. Agreed times a thousand. We don't assume that Earth Power and Eruption for Pokemon are hundreds of times stronger than their other moves, or that Frieza's Supernova is hundreds of times stronger and faster than his normal attacks. This is literally no different.
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Well depending on the circumstances or universe in question it coukd be logical to assume that a certain attack us faster or stronger than others but from what im aware of Akuma has nothing suggesting this us like 90x faster or stronger so even if it is faster it shouldn't be so fast Alums himself can't react to it or his stronger forms would somehow get blitzes by an attack from a weaker form of himself. It should likely scale to god tiers imo.
