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SamanPatou

VS Battles
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Third part, sequel to this thread.
This is about finishing some stats revisions and other minor stuff.

Speed of the Low/Mid-Tiers

Currently, some characters are supersonic+ from a statement about Guile which doesn't exist anymore, we don't even know the source.
The characters affected by this are: Base Ryu, Base Ken, Chun-Li, Guile, Dhalsim (due to his pseudo upgrade in the previous thread), E. Honda, Blanka, Zangief, Cammy, Fei Long, Balrog, Vega, Sagat, Base Bison, Charlie (due to his downgrade in the previous thread), Guy, Cody, Sakura, Rolento, Mika, Karin, Dudley, Ibuki, Makoto, C. Viper, Juri, Poison, Rashid, Laura, Fang and Base Necalli.

Their new tier would be Supersonic, from Base Juri being able to casually kick a rocket at close distance, and after that the scaling chain does its work, and depending on that some characters upscale (Ryu, Sagat...) and others either scale or downscale (just a bit, though).

I'm also leaving here some other feats that works as support material, though none of them reach supersonic, but all of these are casual.

Some other characters will also go down due to the previous revision and some misconception.
The hypersonic feat is performed by Bison in Alpha 3, while he is powered up by the Psycho Drive and superior to his base form. Then, those who scale from Base Bison (directly or not) and will go to Supersonic are: Rose (she battled him in Alpha 2, when he wasn't powered up), Gill and then Urien.

Lifting Strength of the Low-Tiers

Simple, they all currently scale to Zangief, who's class 5 because he can easily lift and throw bears (he also states of being able to throw a bull, in his quote against Balrog in SFV).

The problem is that Zangief is always regarded and portrayed as exceptionally strong (in terms of lifting strength) when compared to other characters, and assuming they can all perform the same feat is wrong. And remember that LS desn't necessarily scale to AP.

They should go down to Class 1, due to a much more reasonable scaling chain to Mika, who could briefly wrestle with a brown bear (which has that LS). This is also an evidence that they aren't all strong as Zangief.

The characters affected by this are: Chun-Li, Guile, Blanka, Cammy, Fei Long, Balrog, Vega, Guy, Cody, Sakura, Rolento, Mika, Karin, Dudley, Ibuki, Makoto, C. Viper, Base Juri, Poison, Rashid, Laura, Fang and Base Necalli.

E. Honda is often portrayed as Zangief's rival and fellow grappler, so he keeps Class 5.

Deleting Q

It was questioned in the past and even in the previous thread, almost nothing is known about Q and there's no reliable scalingor comparison for it, and so it doesn't have many reasons to stay.

Edit: Q can stay and the proposal for its tier is "At least 9-B (can go through bonus stages, which require demolishing a car and shatter wooden barrels), likely 9-A (It is said to wander the world to fight with the strongest fighters, and so it could be comparable to characters such as X, Y and Z [taken from SF3, in which Q appears]).

Votes

Remove Q:
Keep Q: Oleggator, Armorchompy, MaidRips, BlackDarkness679
Neutral: SamanPatou

Assorted Stuff

C.Viper has a statement about her name being confirmed by Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li, which isn't canon and should be axed. She still keeps it, as she uses it as a code name in The Ties That Bind.

Dan has some stuff derived from the comics, which should be axed. Specifically, the statements about getting beated by Ryu and Ken, him smashing a sandbag with a punch, some references to his hospitalization and him having his head smashed onto concrete. He still keeps his tier because he, like everyone in the cast, can destroy wooden barrels in one hit and smash a car with multiple hits.

Elena has references to the manga in her ap section, they should be axed (her fighting with Geki and teaching Ryu a teachnique, which isn't even an ap feat)-

Fang has a 6-C key with preparation, which is wrong because not even Bison harness the power of the Black Moons themselves (as I explained in the previous thread), and even by using them as weapons, because 6-C is the total amount of energy the Moons release as EMP waves, but Fang can't stack that power into a single blast, and I'm not sure if the overall power of the waves emitted by a single Moon is totally translated in what looks like a laser beam.

Ryu, Evil Ryu, Akuma, Oni, Gill and Oro have tens of kilometers range with projectiles for no reason, they should go to tens of meters like the other characters.

Edit: Akuma keeps it in some way, since he split the Ayers Rock and destroyed the Gotentou Island with his punches.

Seth has a note about "The Ties that Bind" not being canon, which is wrong (see the first revision thread) and should be removed.

Chun-Li has links to some respect thread which include stuff from the comics and the mangas, and they should be removed. The same is for the martial arts styles referenced in her intelligence section, they come from one of those respect thread and are also unsourced. Chun-Li's style has always been referenced as Kung-Fu and other unnamed chinese martial arts.

Gill is stated, in his AP section, to be comparable to Akuma and it should be removed. This comes from the comics, and the only instance in which they meet in the games is non-canon and is about Akuma one-shotting Gill with a Raging Demon.

Fei-Long has this statement in his speed section "His attacks catch fire", that's ki/fire powers, not a result of actual speed, and it should be removed.

Sakura has references to her fighting against Zangief, which comes from the non-canon Aftermath trailer (see the first CRT)

Some characters (such as Ryu) have a precise age, coming from old guides and the likes, which gave dates adapted to their name, but because Capcom needs to adjust their characters to modern times, these days their age and birth date is always left unclear and so it should be on profiles. For example, instead of 34 for Ryu, it should be "In his 30's".

Evil Ryu and Kage should be split in different profiles, as the former is non-canon, while the latter is, as he is part of canon Ryu.
Kage should either get a profile of his own or be integrated in normal Ryu's profile, just like he currently is in Evil Ryu's.


And this is all for now, after this thread I'm going to apply the results of this and the previous 2 CRTs, and then I'll make the fourth and last part, which is about powers&abilities.
 
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I edited the op and added a point about Evil Ryu and Kage, who shouldn't share the same profile.
 
Oni is the same as Evil Ryu, a what if version of Akuma who got completely taken over by the Satsui, something that hasn't happened in canon, it's right for him to have another profile.

The comics are the only media in which it is a "Super Saiyan" form.
 
Ok then

Also i would personally want Kage as a separate profile as he isnt really Evil Ryu per se, gameplay wise he is basically him, but thats just Capcom doing something different with the idea of the dark power inside Ryu
 
Exactly, it's also about the canon, as Kage actually exists inside the story.

Should he get his own profile or he should be merged to Ryu's, as he basically lives inside him?
 
A question. Q really so featless? Like, he even can't do stuff from bonus levels or...?(The answer to him being featless I guess would be "yes" but I just want to be more deep on it, also I guess then I wouldn't be able to make a profile for Mokujin... that's bit sad).
 
Although I generally agree.

I guess first thing I would try to do after this revisions is to make chun li vs tracer because why not.
 
Q can do bonus levels, and it is said to wander the world to battle with the strongest fighters, so an "At least 9-B, likely 9-A" wouldn't be groundless, but at the same tier we don't have precise references to its strength.

Personally I'm neutral, and I would be fine with it having an at least tier.

And about Chun-Li, wait for the P&A CRT, as she's getting something too.
 
The problem is that Zangief is always regarded and portrayed as exceptionally strong (in terms of lifting strength) when compared to other characters, and assuming they can all perform the same feat is wrong. And remember that LS desn't necessarily scale to LS.
🤔
They should go down to Class 1, due to a much more reasonable scaling chain to Mika, who could briefly wrestle with a brown bear (which has that LS). This is also an evidence that they aren't all strong as Zangief.
I'm not 100% sure the Class 1 is legit, after all shoving 700 kg isn't the same as lifting it, but it should be fine

Everything else looks good
 
Q can do bonus levels, and it is said to wander the world to battle with the strongest fighters, so an "At least 9-B, likely 9-A" wouldn't be groundless, but at the same tier we don't have precise references to its strength.
Then I genuinely would play devil's advocate and would ask to stay for him.
This is good opportunity to make Q vs Tyrant.
 
If there is basis for AP I don't think it's a terrible thing to keep Q, he's not doing any harm is he?
 
🤔

I'm not 100% sure the Class 1 is legit, after all shoving 700 kg isn't the same as lifting it, but it should be fine

Everything else looks good
Which part puzzles you? Zangief being particularly strong in terms of LS isn't anything new, he constantly prouds himself of his muscles and exceptional strength, is portrayed as such, he can throw away bears while Mika could barely restrain one (and she is also a sort of powerhouse in her league), he easily caught Abel and blocked him while even Guile was having troubles doing it.

If the actual bear's strength is wrong, then I guess the characters should follow accordingly, as they actually don't have LS feats, aside from Mika wrestling the bear and them performing grabs and throws on large opponents, which I don't know how it would be measured.
 
If there is basis for AP I don't think it's a terrible thing to keep Q, he's not doing any harm is he?
It doesn't do any harm, yes, and a sort of tier and scaling can be made. I'm going to edit the op with the proposals and count the votes.

Ok, now I get the weird part.
 
Exactly, it's also about the canon, as Kage actually exists inside the story.

Should he get his own profile or he should be merged to Ryu's, as he basically lives inside him?
Nah, it is his own character, he deserves a separate profile, its the Hado given physical form, its not like Ryu can go into it or something like that
 
It wasn't even in my initial plans, but it was questioned in the previous revision, I'm totally neutral on Q (as long as Capcom doesn't drop some plot stuff)
 
Yeah, looks pretty alright to me.

Pouring one out for Q rn.
tombstone.jpg


Edit: Oh, wait he lives, nevermind. You live another day, robot man.
 
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We can get something for Q and we are currently voting if keeping it or not, I added the proposal to the op and you can give your opinion.
 
While I do think that "wandering the world for it's strongest fighters" is just a tiny bit vague, I'm in favor of Q being 9-B for the bonus stage feats.
 
I think a possibly 9-A might be ok, it's kinda weird for him to be below everyone else but Dan's tier
 
I guess that at this point Q stays, 9-B possibly or likely 9-A will be its tier.
 
Lifting strength, Q and Kage have been solved, so I guess we are just waiting for more inputs.
 
Im neutral. I don't know if we can simply discard out a possible scan about a Supersonic+ attack because the link doesn't work. There is probably a thread here on the site where the source is mentioned
 
Matthew added the link on his own back in 2019, but if the source can't be found it is invalid by default.

@Matthew_Schroeder Do you remember what was the link you put in Guile's profile at the time? (Also, you I'd appreciate if you could give your thoughts on the CRT as a whole, apologies for tagging you so many times).
 
Why supersonic+? Just breaking the sound barrier is Transonic
 
I also noticed that before using that scan, the characters used to scale from Ryu dodging bullets, which comes from the Alpha anime and can't be used to scale canon characters.

Juri's feat is still above baseline supersonic, which is good, and the guide scan is good for support.
 
Speed of sound varies based on temperature of the environment among other things. On average room temperatures, it is Mach 1 or 343 m/s. And another example, they are 4.3x faster under water. But on average, it is Transonic yes.
 
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