Street Fighter Big Revision. Part 1

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Continuum19]

Firearms can injure characters up to tier 8 due to how piercing damage works, and that isn't even nearly the main reason this downgrade was carried on.
The main reason is that the source of the 7-C feat has too many problems and isn't supported by literally anything, tier 9-A feats were the highest and most consistent feats I've been able to find, other than all the rest. I ask you to read better the op, firearms were just a small part of the supportive evidences.
And in other verses firearms can be treated as outliers when the verse is consistently shown to sit on higher levels, which, unfortunately, isn't the case for the Street Fighter low tiers.

You completely missed my other point.

You also mentioned that many of the feats that current SF characters scale to aren’t canon (which is true) or contradict canon.

But this applies to MK, KOF and Tekken as well.

Which means that most of the cast from those games will have to be downgraded in the future.

MK and Tekken characters are threatened by conventional weapons all the time.

Why the heck should MK and Tekken characters being threatened by conventional weapons be treated as outliers?

Why not just downgrade everyone who’s been threatened by conventional weapons and everyone who scaled to them?

I’ve had several discussions with content editors on this site and they’ve told me that feats from non canon sources are fine as long as they make sense in context.

I’m fine with the downgrades as long as their consistent.

Vs Battles Wiki currently doesn’t have consistent rules for fighting game verses.

Finally, You claim that the main reason why SF is getting downgraded is because Chun-Li’s feat has many issues (which it does).

Ditto for MK, KOF and Tekken.

 

[SamanPatou]

Honestly MK, Tekken and KoF should be tackled on a thread of their own, as the verse and the context is different.

Also, we actually try to be as strict as possible with what's canon and what's not, but again, different verse, different context and different thread.

Is something is actually wrong it gets corrected in its own revision, verses shouldn't be influenced by each other, when they aren't involved in some way.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Chun-Li feat is presented in a trailer which as saman explained goes against the games lore and timeline, also other feats in the series from what he found for the characters questioned here being tier 9, with one tier 8 feat for a character who via something specific to the character, which makes the tier 7 questionable here going by his explaination

KOF, Tekken and MK are different cases, Tekken and MK dont have such cases similar to Chun Li feat, so thats false

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Saman's sense of judgement.

 

[Continuum19]

Honestly MK, Tekken and KoF should be tackled on a thread of their own, as the verse and the context is different.

Also, we actually try to be as strict as possible with what's canon and what's not, but again, different verse, different context and different thread.

Is something is actually wrong it gets corrected in its own revision, verses shouldn't be influenced by each other, when they aren't involved in some way.

I specifically stated that any MK/KOF/Tekken downgrades would be handled in the future.

I’m glad I know the standards (specifically fighting game verse standards) now because if these are the standards were using then the aforementioned verses are definitely on the chopping block.

As long as said standards are consistent I support SF getting downgraded.

 

[Continuum19]

Chun-Li feat is presented in a trailer which as saman explained goes against the games lore and timeline, also other feats in the series from what he found for the characters questioned here being tier 9, with one tier 8 feat for a character who via something specific to the character, which makes the tier 7 questionable here going by his explaination

KOF, Tekken and MK are different cases, Tekken and MK dont have such cases similar to Chun Li feat, so thats false

So Chun-Li’s feat isn’t being accepted because it contradicts the games lore and timeline?

If that’s the criteria we’re using then it absolutely applies to MK/KOF/Tekken.

A whole bunch of feats that contradict the lore are used to support powerscaling for those verses.

 

[SamanPatou]

It contradicts the lore, the timeline, the feat is inconsistent and the relevant parts of the trailer have been retconned and or expanded in the two OVAs and in the cutscenes of the game. Everything is really in the op.

But this really isn't the place to discuss about other verses.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You honestly dont know what you talking with this....

Aftermath shows the events in there take place after SF2, yet shows stuff from Alpha games which happen chronologically before SF2

MK and Tekken dont have such things, the former also with the idea of timelines and a multiverse made pretty much all stuff canon, the latter has flashbacks, mentions or word of god for what it has accepted, so not even remotely similar to this case

As saman said, different context, different verse and so on

 

[Continuum19]

It contradicts the lore, the timeline, the feat is inconsistent and the relevant parts of the trailer have been retconned and or expanded in the two OVAs and in the cutscenes of the game. Everything is really in the op.

But this really isn't the place to discuss about other verses.

I’ve read the OP already.

MK/KOF/Tekken feats that contradict the lore and timeline should be more than enough for potential future downgrades for most of its cast.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Funny you purposely ignore what i said, also he told you there several other factors why Chun Li doesnt work

 

[Continuum19]

You honestly dont know what you talking with this....

Aftermath shows the events in there take place after SF2, yet shows stuff from Alpha games which happen chronologically before SF2

MK and Tekken dont have such things, the former also with the idea of timelines and a multiverse made pretty much all stuff canon, the latter has flashbacks, mentions or word of god for what it has accepted, so not even remotely similar to this case

As saman said, different context, different verse and so on

It’s not a one-to-one situation.

I’m specifically talking about feats that contradict the lore and timeline.

Are you serious right now?

Vs Battles Wiki uses Tekken: Blood Vengeance and Tekken TTT2 for feats while MK uses fatalities for crying out loud.

Some of that stuff contradicts the lore beyond a shadow of a doubt.

To put the final nail in the coffin MK and Tekken characters are threatened by conventional weapons as much if not more so than SF’s cast so MK/Tekken will likely be downgraded in the future regardless (excluding God tiers of course).

If our standards are consistent.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best if you stop derailing this discussion, so something productive can get done here.

 

[Antvasima]

It is also impossible to be entirely consistent, since different people are involved for the revisions of each verse. All we can do is try to be as logical as possible.

 

[Continuum19]

It is probably best if you stop derailing this discussion, so something productive can get done here.

All I want is consistency.

The downgrades are getting through regardless.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would much prefer perfect track records of consistent absolute accuracy as well, but that is impossible to achieve in practice. All we can do is try to gradually improve the reliability for our statistics.

 

[SamanPatou]

It is probably best if you stop derailing this discussion, so something productive can get done here.

Just a note that we are already done here, the CRT has been accepted by everyone, this thread is still open for any possible purpose related to it while we wait for me to post the next SF CRT, which will arrive either tomorrow or the day after, now that I have much more free time.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So you just ignored what i said and inserted your own stuff to make it sound like they should get a downgrade cuz SF does

I already explained the two verses being a different case, if you dont wanna understand im not going to bother explaining this a million times,

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem then.

 

[Antvasima]

So you just ignored what i said and inserted your own stuff to make it sound like they should get a downgrade cuz SF does

I already explained the two verses being a different case, if you dont wanna understand im not going to bother explaining this a million times,

Please try to be a bit more patient. That said, I am in a stressed out mood as well.

 

[Continuum19]

So you just ignored what i said and inserted your own stuff to make it sound like they should get a downgrade cuz SF does

I already explained the two verses being a different case, if you dont wanna understand im not going to bother explaining this a million times,

What did I purposefully ignored?

 

[SamanPatou]

Please let's try to not get heated and to not talk about possible revisions of other verses here.

Everything will be discussed in due time in the respective CRT for each verse, if they will ever get made.

This thread is only for Street Fighter and so it shall remain (same for the next ones, I have 3 more SF CRTs planned)

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ant you can see above i explained on the two verses he mentions are in danger of downgrades by his words, what im drawing as a conclusion from his comments is simply to downgrade others cuz SF gets it and poorly trying to have it sound like all fighting games are in similar case

 

[BlackDarkness679]

What did I purposefully ignored?

Really....

MK and Tekken dont have such things, the former also with the idea of timelines and a multiverse made pretty much all stuff canon, the latter has flashbacks, mentions or word of god for what it has accepted, so not even remotely similar to this case

As saman said, different context, different verse and so on

 

[Continuum19]

Based on the standards that have been set by this thread?

Absolutely.

MK/, KOF and Tekken are absolutely in danger of getting downgraded (minus the God tiers).

If SF gets downgraded for things that apply to other fighting game verses then it’s more than fair to point that out.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

If one of your gripes is the bullets being a threat you might wanna extend that to more then just fighters, cuz many other verses of any media can have that, saman said its just an additional point given the tier 9/8 being the most consistent as he said in the OP, not just by the fact alone "haha bullets danger for characters, downgrade haha"

 

[SamanPatou]

For the last time, this thread is for Street Fighter and if I got it right we are all fine with it.

If anyone wants to discuss about stuff related to other fighting verses and not Street Fighter, you can move the debate in a discussion or question thread, on a message wall, on a private conversation or just wait for any CRT to be made.

And I think it's better to close this thread, at this point.

 

[Continuum19]

MK and Tekken dont have such things, the former also with the idea of timelines and a multiverse made pretty much all stuff canon, the latter has flashbacks, mentions or word of god for what it has accepted, so not even remotely similar to this case



MK uses fatalities that contradict the lore.

Just because MK exists in a multiverse doesn’t mean those fatalities are suddenly canon because Vs Battles Wiki says so.

In regards to Tekken.

Are you talking about the Blood Vengeance flashbacks in the Tekken 7 story mode?

Because Blood Vengeance contradicts the main canon regardless.

 

[Continuum19]

For the last time, this thread is for Street Fighter and if I got it right we are all fine with it.

If anyone wants to discuss about stuff related to other fighting verses and not Street Fighter, you can move the debate in a discussion or question thread, on a message wall, on a private conversation or just wait for any CRT to be made.

And I think it's better to close this thread, at this point.

Yup.

Close the thread.

 

[Continuum19]

If one of your gripes is the bullets being a threat you might wanna extend that to more then just fighters, cuz many other verses of any media can have that, saman said its just an additional point given the tier 9/8 being the most consistent as he said in the OP, not just by the fact alone "haha bullets danger for characters, downgrade haha"

That was only one of my points though.

Maybe you’re right.

Maybe we SHOULD downgrade every single verse where powerful characters are harmed by conventional weapons.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Fatalities dont contradict shit in lore, if you talk of it tier wise thats a different story, also in both comics and games they did some if them

Harada said its part of the canon, not all of it, but still is, let alone the flashbacks and other stuff from it literally showing up in the lore

Next time research and dont pull stuff from yourself if you dont about it

 

[Continuum19]

Fatalities dont contradict shit in lore, if you talk of it tier wise thats a different story, also in both comics and games they did some if them

Harada said its part of the canon, not all of it, but still is, let alone the flashbacks and other stuff from it literally showing up in the lore

Next time research and dont pull stuff from yourself if you dont about it

Smoke destroying a planet doesn’t contradict the lore?

That’s laughable.

Obviously some fatalities are canon since their used in the stories but that should be analyzed on a case by case basis.

Who came up with partial canon in regards to showings from Blood Vengeance?

Because if we’re being consistent then none of Blood Vengeance should be accepted if any of it contradicts the lore.

 

[SamanPatou]

Just stop, please, I really don't want to say it again and both of you don't want this pointless debate to keep going on, trust me, nothing good can come out of it HERE.

I already said it something like four times at this point, move the discussion somewhere else or wait for the respective CRT.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Fatalities dont contradict shit in lore, if you talk of it tier wise thats a different story, also in both comics and games they did some if them

Harada said its part of the canon, not all of it, but still is, let alone the flashbacks and other stuff from it literally showing up in the lore

Next time research and dont pull stuff from yourself if you dont about it

Giving just a random example out of hundreds isnt helping your case, also that one is something none uses regardless

You realize there are verses with some contradictions on a piece of media but still counted on canon cuz its acknowledged to be part of it? You simply ignore the part that is iffy

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Im done now, had my say in this, its pointless to argue him

 

[Elizhaa]

Since it was requested, I will close the thread.