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Street Fighter Big Revision. Part 1

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SamanPatou

VS Battles
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Sooo, after a very long time (almost a year) I'm finally able to initiate this CRT, which will be divided in three parts for the sake of order and to avoid confusion and chaos.

I'm leaving here a quick timeline and summarization of Street Fighter canon made by me, which I could put in a blog with more details if needed. This thing will be useful and important for this and the next revision, so please take a look at it.

  • Street Fighter: Sagat, the world champion of Muay Thai, hosts a tournament. Ryu arrives to the end but gets nearly defeated. When Sagat is about to help him get up or something, Ryu unleashes the Satsui no Hado within him and sucker punches Sagat with a shoryuken, defeating him and winning the tournament.
  • Street Fighter Alpha 2: Basically an expansion and retcon of Alpha 1. All characters mind to their businesses, among the notable events there are Ryu meeting Akuma for the first time, Charlie being killed by Bison and Chun-Li starting her chase for the latter.
  • Street Fighter Alpha 3: Bison created a weapon called Psycho Drive, a machine that gathers negative emotions and powers him. Though, his body is growing unable to contain such increasing power, and for this reason he tries to steal Ryu's body and awakening his Satsui No Hado, which Bison believes being akin to his Psycho Power. (he learnt of him from Sagat, who became his underling in the previous game). Bison defeats Ryu and successfully brainwashes him. But Sagat (and possibly even Sakura and Ken) help him regain consciousness, and for a moment Ryu manages to control the Satsui and kills Bison. In the meanwhile, Guile and Chun-Li arrive at the Shadaloo HQ and enable the self-destruction of the Psycho Drive. Another notable thing is that Cammy finally gets freed from Bison's mind control and ceases to be her slave. How the events really went is explained by the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection, an official collection released in 2017 that contains a profile for each character, explaining their story up to Street Fighter V (included and mentioned), even what happened at the end of Alpha 3. Notably, these stories aren't in contradiction with each other or any of the official games. These profiles can be found in the galleries of the respective character on the Street Fighter Wiki.
  • Street Fighter II: Bison is back in a new body and holds a tournament because reasons. It is unknown who reaches the finals, but Akuma suddenly arrives and kills Bison with a Shun Goku Satsu.
  • Street Fighter IV: The Ties That Bind: An ova that works as a prequel to SFIV. It introduces characters such as C.Viper and Seth, and the plan of the latter to use the Satsui No Hado within Ryu to power a super weapon called BLECE. This OVA is indeed canon, as it was released with the collector edition of the game (SFIV), Yoshinori Ono is featured as the producer and the game's cutscenes have plenty of connections, such as the BLECE project and the machine needed to use it.
  • Super Street Fighter IV Original Video Animation, also known as Juri OVA: Sequel to The Ties That Bind, introduces Juri and her schemes, along with other things. This is canon for the same reasons of the previous, it was released with the game (SSFIV), Yoshinori Ono is once again the producer and the game mentions stuff of the ova, such as the rivalry between Chun-Li and Juri and the fact that Cammy saved Juni, a former doll (Bison's personal guard).
  • Street Fighter IV: Seth hosts a tournament to copy the fighting styles of the best fighters in the world and establish his organization, the S.I.N., as the strongest and even getting rid of Bison, who returned again with a new body.
  • Super Street Fighter IV: The cutscenes in this version are direct sequels to the ones of the previous game, and all together form the entire story. The notable events are Ryu destroying the BLECE machine, Bison and Juri killing Seth, Gouken defeating Ryu while possessed by the Satsui and so on.
  • Street Fighter V: This game is divided in two parts: 1) A Shadow Falls: The main story mode, Bison created satellites called Black Moons, which gather negative emotions and power him up. The heroes form an alliance to defeat Shadaloo, and Ryu ultimately kills Bison after unlocking the Mu No Ken (Power of Nothingness), an inner power opposed to the Satsui. Within this story other characters make their moves, the Illuminati start their plans, Necalli goes after the strongest fighters and most dangerous fighters to devour them and more. 2) Character Stories: These short stories are meant to introduce the characters and what they are doing during the events of Street Fighter V, and they are either prequels or sequels to A Shadow Falls.
  • The Side Readers: A series of short novels released by Capcom through the official website "Shadaloo Combat Research Institute" (which features many other things tied to SFV). These are also either prequels or sequels to a Shadow Falls, with the most important stories being Toxicity and Musing on a Still Night.
  • Street Fighter III: New Generation: The Illuminati, a secret organization led by Gill, held a new tournament, to find strong warriors for his own plans, which involve world domination through various means. All fighters have their reasons to participate in it, and Alex wins the tournament, even though it's kind of implied that Gill gave up out of respect or because his plans were already ongoing.
  • Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Just like SSFIV, this version's endings are sequels to the ones of the previous game, with all characters minding their businesses after the end of the tournament. Nothing too notable is shown, other than Ryu starting training with Oro.
Edit: I forgot these:
  • Final Fight 1, 2 and 3: The Final Fight series, at least up to the third, is recognized as canon, as the characters of these three games have appeared in the Street Fighter series multiple times, with references to their past and relationships. Cody, Guy, Hugo, Poison, Rolento, Sodom, Abigail, Lucia and Maki have been playable at least once, with Haggar, Roxy, J, Axl and others being shown and/or referenced, as well as Metro City existing as a stage. The events of these three games likely take place between Street Fighter 1 and Alpha 3, without a clear order.
  • Rival Schools: Just like Final Fight, this series belongs to the same world of Street Fighter, confirmed by the presence of characters such as Sakura and Akira. Its canonicity was also confirmed by Capcom. The events of this series also likely happen between Street Fighter 1 and Alpha 3.

Basically the theme of this first part is that the "low tiers" have to be downgraded.

Currently they are Small Town level because they scale to Chun-Li, who performed this feat. But the problem here is the source of said feat.
It comes from one of the videos that compose Street Fighter IV: Aftermath, a series of animated trailers that came out before the release of Street Fighter IV. These trailers though, especially the one with the feat, present several problems.

  • Canonicity: These trailers, simply put, are not canon. There's nothing that implies it, and their purpose of presenting SF4's events and characters has been done and expanded later by the two OVAs, which don't take these trailers in consideration. Furthermore, some of the things shown in these trailers have been remade in a different way inside of the actual game. Some examples are Bison obtaining a new body (Aftermath version - Game version), and Balrog, Vega and Sagat being summoned by Bison (Aftermath version - Game Version [Balrog, Vega, Sagat])
  • Continuity Errors: These trailers contain plenty of continuity errors, as they mix the events of Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Street Fighter II, not accounting them being prequel and sequel. In fact, at the start of C-Viper's trailer (the one containing the feat), a caption says Shortly after the events of Street Fighter II. After that, we see the heroes fighting againts Bison, who eventually blows himself up and flees to the Psycho Drive to be healed, and the whole base explodes for apparently no reason. The errors are blatant, as the story is supposedly after Street Fighter 2, but Bison has not been killed by Akuma and the trailer shows events belonging the prequel, Alpha 3. You can see how some scenes are remade versions of the old cutscenes. We can also add the fact that Cammy is wearing her green outfit, which she started wearing in Street Fighter II (as she joined Delta Red), while in Alpha 3 she had her Killer Bee outfit. Or the fact that all the heroes are fighting Bison, while Guile and Chun-Li were not together with Ryu and Ken, and Cammy also was on her own. On top of that, Ryu's trailer shows him, in his base form, being somewhat on par with Akuma, while on the actuale games he his still much weaker than him, both while using the Satsui No Hado or the Mu No Ken.
  • Outlier: The feat itself is a huge outlier, as it exceeds by far any other demonstration of power performed by characters on this league. You can go through all cutscenes, prologues, endings, stories, bonus stages, ovas and more and you will not find a single feat that reaches the town level tier. There are dozens of wall level feats, including the destruction of cars, walls, tables, wooden and metal doors, barrels, and more, characters fighting with animals like bears and so on. Characters on that level are also threatened by bullets, as seen in The Ties That Bind (C. Viper threatening Cammy with a gun) and Street Fighter V (A police officer threating Cammy with his gun, and Ken being worried of it). As such, this feat is a totally inconsistent outlier, without mentioning that Chun-Li's attack defeated Bison, who is far stronger than her.

Their new tier, much more consistent with everything that is shown in the canon series, should be 9-A (Small Building level), based on these two feats and their calcs:

  • Ryu and Sakura extinguishing a wall of fire. This feat is performed casually by them, and Sakura is a character not too far from others, as she is on par with Karin, who is on par and can fight with Zangief and so on with the scaling. Ki is also something that many characters use, making so that it can be used for DB-esque scaling or through the non-ki users characters fighting with those who uses it.
  • Adon shattering the head of a Buddha statue. Adon is also a character on the same league and doesn't use ki attacks, making their physical blows consistent and usable for scaling.
  • Karin and Chun-Li busting metal doors: This feat is likely to not be used, as the accepted calc gives 9-B, but this is the third highest feat I've been able to find while going through all canon material and it just proves the consistency of the overall new ratings.
The characters affected by this revision are: Chun-Li, Guile, E. Honda, Blanka, Zangief, Cammy, Fei Long, Balrog, Vega, Guy, Sakura, Rolento, R. Mika, Karin, Cody, Dudley, Elena, Ibuki, Makoto, C. Viper, Poison, Rashid, Laura and FANG.
Cody is also a special case, as it has two keys (Suppressed and Serious) were he scales to 7-B from a 7-C (Poison), and a third full power key which I don't know where it comes from, honestly. Cody should just have a single key.

For other characters that have been left out but could be involved in this revision (like Dhalsim and Juri) please wait for the next CRT, as they will be part of it along with others.
If, hopefully, this revision gets accepted, I'd prefer to apply this with the next (hoping it gets accepted too) for the sake of doing everything with order and in a single round. I didn't include the next revision in this thread to avoid generating too much confusion, but they are strictly related.
 
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I'm not too knowledgeable about SF but from what I do know this looks a lot better.
 
Looks fine

Although Cody should have 2 keys, he for the most part has been with handcuffs overall in the series and iirc dialogues with other characters suggests it holds back his potential, then SF5 comes with the character with no more handcuffs and all

Overall everything looks good imo
 
Makes sense, his tier stays the same, though, he's just stronger.
 
No, he has only fought with Abigail and Zeku, who don't scale to anyone particularly strong.
 
I have some other downgrades to propose in the second part (There are very good reasons, I swear) and the third is for powers&abilities. I may also make a fourth part for miscellaneous stuff that doesn't fit well in the others.
 
Can this be considered as accepted and concluded or should I call some more users and/or staff members to make it official?
 
I'm no expert on Street Fighter, but I actually recall multiple discussions on our policy on "Non-canon endings". Although, I pretty much agree that we shouldn't scale the entire verse from Chun Li, and positive poor Dan isn't the only character who's That weak iirc. But otherwise, I'm going to remain neutral for now; it seems nearly all of our Street Fighter experts have either left the wiki, are inactive regarding verse specific topics, or are currently banned atm.
 
Chun-Li's feat comes from something that is even less canon than the non-canon endings, as I explained.
The new rating comes mostly from a canon ending (as all SF4 and SSF4 endings but Evil Ryu's, Oni's and Poison's are canon), with Adon's feat being supportive (and even lower).
Non-canon endings shouldn't be used for scaling between characters, imho, feats should be scrutinzed case by case, but that's not a problem here.
 
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I'm no expert on Street Fighter, but I actually recall multiple discussions on our policy on "Non-canon endings". Although, I pretty much agree that we shouldn't scale the entire verse from Chun Li, and positive poor Dan isn't the only character who's That weak iirc. But otherwise, I'm going to remain neutral for now; it seems nearly all of our Street Fighter experts have either left the wiki, are inactive regarding verse specific topics, or are currently banned atm.
Which experts?
 
Truth be told, we kind of have some double standards for trailer feats; we don't seem to allow them in most verses, but a couple first person shooter verses use trailers for feats. So I might make another thread discussing those.

And Dark649 iirc is one of the main people who worked hard on the Street Fighter profiles. Sera also mentioned plans that Street Fighter has some canon crossovers with other fighting games that can legit scale, but she's really tied up IRL and doesn't like to be bothered. And Matt was already mentioned above, but then there's a couple others who used to be contributive at least somewhat but are all banned now.
 
The problem isn't even that they are trailers, but the fact that they feature contradictions to the actual story and that their content has been remade and/or expanded by canon material (the games and the ovas).

But this isn't the right thread to discuss it.

Since 6 people agree, should this be considered as accepted? I can still try to call more people and explain my points more if needed, I just don't want to wait a lot of time for nothing.
 
Sera also mentioned plans that Street Fighter has some canon crossovers with other fighting games that can legit scale, but she's really tied up IRL and doesn't like to be bothered.
Last i checked canon crossovers arent accepted for scaling characters in stats, which is sorta stupid imo
 
If all of the Low 7-C characters will become 9-A instead, what will happen to all of the Street Fighter characters with even higher tiers? Will our scaling not turn too inconsistent after this?
 
I mean the others are 7-B and those above the 7-B upscale, afair from talks with Saman just the former will change, unless he has stuff he didnt mention to me
 
I will make a second CRT tackling some of these characters (I want to split this revision in 4 threads for the sake of order), with even a middle-ground for some, but there's still a huge gap even lore-wise between the different types of characters, without scaling issues, so everything will still make sense.

And, I mean, huge jumps in power are really common in many verses, even with far greater gaps, but as long as feats and scaling are correct, there shouldn't be a problem.
 
Okay then, and everybody here are absolutely certain that there are no higher canon feats for these characters?
 
We could have something with F.A.N.G at least contending with Bison. Though he was severely outmatched in the end, he was able to take his hits for a very long time. But there is the fact that he was very outmatched, so I'm not sure if that would count for anything. Karin, Vega, Rashid, and Chun-Li also fought him, so it wouldn't be hard for us to scale them accordingly if that were the case.
 
The three feats in the op are the highest I've been able to find and get calculated while going through all the games, short novels, written profiles and ovas, it's not my fault if there aren't higher feats nor scaling. And tbh, 9-A is also really consistent with the general showings, demonstrations of powers and limits.

No one on the lower tier should scale to Bison, as he he shown and stated to be superior to even Sagat, Juri with the eye and Seth, all characters that are already superior to those in Chun-Li's league.
 
Ok, I talked with one person and now I actually disagree. SF is full of plot holes and inconsistansies, doesn't mean we should ignore stuff. There's balrog's meteor feat, Juri had a MCB calc I think, Birdie's feat...
Outlier's overused.
 
Then, I'll settle for what I've got going with EX Gang. That's where my area of expertise seems to be. I think Tier 9 should be fine for now, at least until we can find anything. Maybe separate profiles could be made for their EX incarnations in the future? They seem to scale a lot higher. Especially Zangief, if these feats ever get calc'd.
 
Ok, I talked with one person and now I actually disagree. SF is full of plot holes and inconsistansies, doesn't mean we should ignore stuff. There's balrog's meteor feat, Juri had a MCB calc I think, Birdie's feat...
Outlier's overused.
Juri's feat doesn't scale, because she used the Feng Shui Engine, which makes her far stronger than the likes of Guile, Chun-Li and Cammy, as shown in the ova (And I'm going to use it in the next crt), Balrog doesn't have any meteor feat, maybe you refer to Honda, but that was calced at tier 6 (and from a non-canon arcade ending, and it was rejected even back in 2019 for the same reason).
Birdie doesn't have any feat, if you refer to him withing the Shadaloo base, he and Balrog escape, as all other characters stated that they need to get out of it, and even Bison is repeatdly shown in Alpha 3 to get killed by the explosion of said base (but in Nash's ending, where he still dies riddled by bullets).

But also, outlier isn't even the first reason this feat is wrong, the source (the Aftermath trailer) has too many problems, as I outlined in the op, it's not better than using comics, mangas or the '90s animated movies.
The inconsistencies are also quite few within the canon material, just the 6-C meteor, in front of dozens or 9-B feats performed by many characters all through the series, while I've been able to find only the 9-A ones, which aren't out of spite at all.

EX stuff is fine, but it scales only within EX itself.
 
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Juri's feat doesn't scale, because she used the Feng Shui Engine, which makes her far stronger than the likes of Guile, Chun-Li and Cammy, as shown in the ova (And I'm going to use it in the next crt), Balrog doesn't have any meteor feat, maybe you refer to Honda, but that was calced at tier 6 (and from a non-canon arcade ending, and it was rejected even back in 2019 for the same reason).
Birdie doesn't have any feat, if you refer to him withing the Shadaloo base, he and Balrog escape, as all other characters stated that they need to get out of it, and even Bison is repeatdly shown in Alpha 3 to get killed by the explosion of said base (but in Nash's ending, where he still dies riddled by bullets).

But also, outlier isn't even the first reason this feat is wrong, the source (the Aftermath trailer) has too many problems, as I outlined in the op, it's not better than using comics, mangas or the '90s animated movies.

EX stuff is fine, but it scales only within EX itself.
yeah I meant honda. And why's the ending non canon?
 
Because arcade endings from SFV (not the stories) aren't really consistent with the actual plot and sometime is contradicted for the sake of the fun and such (like Kage meeting Oni) but I'm not even against using them (as I said in my reply to DDM; even the city-busting feat isn't canon, but I'm not against it) but that meteor feat trumps every other showing in the series, it's even far greater than what Akuma and Oni ever did.
And scaling-wise Honda is even quite low in the tiering, and Alex's SFV story shows that he and Hakan were inferior to even Alpha Chun-Li.
 
I'm no expert on Street Fighter, but I actually recall multiple discussions on our policy on "Non-canon endings". Although, I pretty much agree that we shouldn't scale the entire verse from Chun Li, and positive poor Dan isn't the only character who's That weak iirc. But otherwise, I'm going to remain neutral for now; it seems nearly all of our Street Fighter experts have either left the wiki, are inactive regarding verse specific topics, or are currently banned atm.
Yeah that could be a staff thread
 
Just to add reasons why this new 9-A tier would be consistent, here's a list of some durability showings that support it. I know that AP feats aren't the best to support a downgrade (I can very well post a list, though, since there are dozens throughout the series, while there's nothing supporting a higher tier) but you will see how durability is also consistent. Keep in mind that the 7-C feat being an outlier is not the first and most important of the reasons why it has to be discarded, as you can see from the op. Also, remember that 9-A characters can perfectly be wounded by bullets, due to how piercing damage works.


I would be glad to see evidences (either ap or durability and from a legitimate source) supporting a higher tier for characters on this league, but the only thing available is a 6-C meteor feat from Honda and Hakan and a 6-B statement for Alpha 2 Cammy, bot of which are way out of the boundaries and a perfect outlier, as not even Akuma and Oni have shown anything above tier 7.
And the overall inconsistencies are actually very little, you find them if you look at the old arcade endings (and some SFV ones, which are different from the story modes) because, as in literally every fighting game, the character you're using defeats the final boss, regardless of the power level gap there should be between them. And instances of characters fighting each other, especially if they are sparring or toying with one another, aren't inconsistencies, since they can be found in, like, every fictional verse, even at a way higher level than SF, where they are almost always very blatant (SF4 rival cutscenes are the only not totally clear things, but there's a lot of other cutscenes and stuff to make everything more clear).

Edit: I'm also adding an ap list to support how 9-A is still much more preferrable than 7-C (and the source is still invalid for the reasons in the op).

Breaking stuff like cars (all characters can do this) (1, 2, 3), barrels (same, everyone can do this) (1, 2, 3, 4), walls (1, 2, 3, 4), doors (1, 2, 3), tables (1), stopping a car with ki (1), fighting with bears (1, 2), bending a metal thing (1).
I can find more, this is the stuff I recall atm
 
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Thank you. You can bump this thread later then.
 
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