Steven Universe 7-A"+" Problem

[WeeklyBattles]

I still think we shouldn't give the + without the needed number. Our page says so and accepting this is going against our standards just because of a scaling that has been changed through this thread a few times.

A LOT of verses use this my guy, its not going against our standards, what needs to be changed is the rule to represent what we actually do on this site

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

We don't even really have any standard for that; the wiki is mostly case by case, and each verse is judged individually. Other verses have really no relevance in this discussion.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Exactly, but what Calca is confused on is that the way the rule is currently worded does not imply that its case by case

 

[The_Calaca]

What the rule says is that the only way to get the + is through numbers and not through scaling. So we're doing something wrong.

Also, it's Calaca. It's like 3 as is too much for people here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, and that rule is ignored almost by default for verses that have scaling that takes them to near another tier, or with scaling chains that are so ridiculously massive that it is more than justified for them to tier jump

 

[The_Calaca]

Ignoring a rule doesn't make the rule less valid. In fact, it means that people is deliberately ignoring it to get what they want.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because the rule is inherently nonsensical, if someone is, for example, only 2 megatons away from being in a new tier when there is already knowledge that they are much stronger than the yield of the feat that they scale to it makes no sense to throw all scaling and reasoning out the window just to bar them from being a higher, perfectly justified tier

 

[Damage3245]

Has anyone noticed that there is some big circular scaling going on in the Ruby's profile anyway?

Ruby (Crystal Gems) AP: Mountain level (Comparable to Sapphire and the Homeworld Rubies)

Ruby (Eyeball) AP: Mountain level (Should be comparable to other Rubies)

Both profiles are just comparing to each other.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Crystal Gems Ruby should be comparable to the Homeworld Rubies who have the Megatons feat

Scaling to Sapphire should have been removed when she was downgraded

 

[Damage3245]

@WeeklyBattles; the Homeworld Rubies only have a durability feat. If they have actual feats of harming someone of that durability, then it needs to be added to the profile.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They can harm each other and Eyeball nearly killed Steven

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Fixed

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Can we remove the "+" since Garnet doesn't scale to Topaz?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No? Why would she not scale to Topaz?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Got thrown by Topaz in less than ten seconds and never took a direct hit or harmed her.

 

[Damage3245]

@WeeklyBattles; can you link feats of them harming each other?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Got thrown by Topaz in less than ten seconds and never took a direct hit or harmed her.

And then immediately got back up ready to fight again. Again, Garnet's durability scales to Topaz's AP and as a result she scales to being able to harm her in turn

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Topaz never struck her at any point, she picked her up and threw her away with her lifting strength, meaning Garnet's Durability does not scale to Topaz in any way. She was also unable to stop Topaz from throwing her away.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You do nont need to strike someone or be struck by someone to scale to them

Garnet was physically trying to restrain herself to prevent her from hitting one of the humans in Topaz's body

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Picking someone up and throwing them doesn't' have anything to do with AP or Durability; it has to do with Lifting Strength and with how much the opponent's body weights.

Yes, Garnet was restraining herself, and? You'd still need to show proof that an unrestrained Garnet would scale to Topaz.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

When said person is charging towards you it kinda does, and when you throw them as an attack it does as well. Have a football player charge you without moving or trying to defend yourself for example, if youre not durable enough to take the hit or strong enough to match the force of the charge youre going to get messed up.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

No, it really doesn't, the fact that someone is running towards you does not change the fact that you use Lifting Strength to lift them, and not Striking Strength or AP. If she had been punched out of the battlefield, it could scale, but she was literally just picked up and thrown, Durability doesn't really have anything to do with it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

To lift them you first must have the durability to survive the force of them charging you my dude, that energy does not suddenly vanish just because youre deciding to lift them

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

First of all, Garnet stoped charging before Topaz grabbed her, and even if she hadn't, that wouldn't really disprove my point, since my argument is that Garnet does not scale to Topaz, therefore, Topaz being able to take the force of Garnet's charging without harm would honestly just help prove my point that Topaz is above Garnet more than anything.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Garnet tanked Topaz throwing her and was unharmed

Garnet can harm Jasper who can harm her

Its really not difficult to understand

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Being thrown by someone does not make you scale to them. The strength of someone's thrown is completely unrelated to the strength of someone's punch, since throwing is much more bout Lifting Strength than AP or Striking Strength.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It makes you scale durability-wise and we have a lot of profiles here that follow this, please dont try to apply a double standard

Lifting someone is lifting strength, throwing someone is AP

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Just becuse other verses do something, doesn't mean it is right or that we must do it as well. This wiki works on a case by case basis, and each verse is to be judged individually by its own, with other verses being irrelevant to the discussion.

Picking someone up and throwing is Lifting Strength. That's literally what lifting means. You don't need to be able to harm something to be able to pick that thing up and throw it, it has nothing to do with Durability.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And yet you and calaca are trying to apply a standard while also arguing that we shouldnt be using standards lol

Picking up someone is lifting strength, throwing them is AP

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I'm not applying any standard, I'm just exapleining how picking someone up and throwing them works. No idea what you're referring to.

Picking someone up and throwing is Lifting Strength. That's literally what lifting means. You don't need to be able to harm something to be able to pick that thing up and throw it, it has nothing to do with Durability.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Picking up someone is lifting strength, throwing them is AP, its two completely different kinds of energy used to perform them, this is basic, entry level physics we're talking about.

It has everything to do with durability when the person that has been thrown tanks the nergy of the thow and gets up no worse for wear

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

You don't need to be able to harm something to be able to pick that thing up and throw it, it has nothing to do with Durability or AP, it has to do with the object's mass and the lifting strength you can add to it to make it move at a certain speed.

 

[Damage3245]

I have to say that I think Paulo is making the most sense here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If youre throwing something with the intent of harming or destroying it you absolutely have to be able to exert enough energy to do so with your throw

 

[Damage3245]

@WeeklyBattles; wasn't Garnet unharmed after being thrown?

Also, I don't really think "intent to harm" matters so much as actual harm caused.

Right now Topaz's profile states that she scales for harming Garnet.

Garnet's profile states that her durability scales for being unharmed by Topaz.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, Garnet was unharmed by Topaz

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also i just remembered, Smoky, who outright defeated Jasper, was ranked by Sardonyx as being on par with Garnet in strength during her game show

This would result in a downgrade for Smoky but would give a bit more consistency

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, Garnet scales from Jasper for sure.

 

[Damage3245]

So it looks like we agree that Topaz needs to be downgraded?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I guess? I'm mostly against Garnet getting "+" by scaling from her, their fight was way too quick, and Garnet was never directly hit.