Steven Universe 7-A"+" Problem

[Paulo.junior.969]

Because this wiki is inconsistent as all hell.

 

[Pepper14832]

So, Garnet's best feat is 317MT's?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So, Garnet's best feat is 317MT's?

No, Garnet's best feat is fighting on par with someone who is far superior to 548 Megatons

 

[Pepper14832]

Are you talking about Topaz?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes

Also, The 317 Megaton feat is something she views as fragile and she fought on par with Jasper who tanked the energy of the core of a ship exponentially stronger than the 317 Megaton ship at point blank range with little damage

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Yeah, the best feat is 317 Megatons. We're currently discussing whether 548 Megatons through fusion multiplier is useful or not.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

its >>>>>>>>>> 317 Megatons not just 317, if youre going to try to use that at least give it an accurate representation

 

[M3X_2.0]

With what I pointed here, I disagree with the downgrade. We allow characters to change the Tier when they stomp someone near the baseline, or when they are near the baseline of something and they blitz a that character. And honestly, jumping tiers (7-A to High 7-A, example) is far more absurd than scaling someone to above the average of the Tier to get the + signal

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I'm not going to write "somewhat above 317 Megatons to an unknown amount" everytime when it really doesn't make that much difference effectively.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm not going to write "somewhat above 317 Megatons to an unknown amount" everytime when it really doesn't make that much difference effectively.

It makes a very big difference, its the difference between a ship with no offensive capabilities that is outdated by several thousand years and a modern warship

 

[Wokistan]

Honestly I think the 2 mt is kinda negligible here. That would be saying that she's not 1.00364963504 times as strong as that thing, which is honestly just pedanticism. I don't generally like scaling super high via scaling chains but you can see how small a gap that is.

If the fusion thing is rejected though, that's another issue.

 

[Pepper14832]

Garnet hardly fought "on par" with Topaz. During Garnet's attempt. Topaz simply grabbed her, picked her up, and threw her away. That's pretty much the whole fight with Topaz.

However, her fight with Jasper does give more leeway to suggest she's 7-A+. Although, Garnet was STILL struggling with Jasper even without the destablizer. Garnet never beat her down and stopped her, she outsmarted Jasper.

In fact, Garnet, Stevoniee, nor Smokey never single-handlely defeated Jasper. Either she was outsmarted, or Jasper herself made the wrong descision.

I think Jasper being 7-A+ is fine. 7-A with Garnet.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

It makes a very big difference, its the difference between a ship with no offensive capabilities that is outdated by several thousand years and a modern warship

It only really matters if the opponent is around 317, which is way too specific. 400s are still assumed to be above her and 200s are still assumed to be below her, because the gap between her and 317 is way too vague to quantify.

That's why "superior to X by an unknown amout" doesn't really matter that much in battle.

 

[The_Calaca]

Mathematically speaking the most accurate representation is 317MT. Scaling doesn't matter. Stop using the same arguments that have been discussed.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Garnet hardly fought "on par" with Topaz. During Garnet's attempt. Topaz simply grabbed her, picked her up, and threw her away. That's pretty much the whole fight with Topaz.

That's not quite correct. Topaz used Jamie to make Garnet hesitate so she could catch her off guard. She didn't just manhandle Garnet, she played a dirty trick.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I think Jasper being 7-A+ is fine. 7-A with Garnet.

Where does 7-A+ Jasper come from?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

snip

She took a TON of hits from Jasper and made her cry out in pain, and even shattered part of her helmet

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Mathematically speaking the most accurate representation is 317MT. Scaling doesn't matter. Stop using the same arguments that have been discussed.

Scaling and canon multipliers > Math in this situation

 

[Pepper14832]

I think Jasper being 7-A+ is fine. 7-A with Garnet.

Where does 7-A+ Jasper come from?

Thought that was on her profile, my mistake.

 

[Pepper14832]

Garnet hardly fought "on par" with Topaz. During Garnet's attempt. Topaz simply grabbed her, picked her up, and threw her away. That's pretty much the whole fight with Topaz.

That's not quite correct. Topaz used Jamie to make Garnet hesitate so she could catch her off guard. She didn't just manhandle Garnet, she played a dirty trick.

True, but that doesn't mean Garnet is on equal footing as Topaz.

 

[The_Calaca]

I still don't buy the fusion argument. But I know little of the series so I can't argue about it.

Pray for me not being interested enough tho, Weekly

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

It is, but its from the same justification that is currently being discussed here. It Garnet loses the "+", Jasper loses it as well.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

True, but that doesn't mean Garnet is on equal footing as Topaz.

So, she doesn't scale from Topaz? Being thrown by Topaz is in her Durability tho.

 

[Pepper14832]

But we know Jasper is stronger than Garnet.

As Jasper said, weak Gems use fusion as a cheap tactic to become stronger.

Garnet isn't WEAK but it is obvious she has to fuse in order to be a "match" or make an attempt to beat Jasper.

That doesn't mean she's stronger than Jasper, especially when she uses the enviroment to incapcitate her.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Calaca, we literally allow Nanatsu characters to jump Tiers, they have Low 6-B God Tiers because of the same logic applied here. There is even a note about how many Tiers they jump using the stomp logic, and because they are near baseline. And we are arguing about "The character is 548 MT, and the necessary is 550, even if he is superior to this, we can't give him a + signal because of 2 MT". That's bullshit

And if you are downgrading SU because of this logic, you should create a huge NNT thread to downgrade as well

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Nanatsu is a completely different verse from Steven Universe though. Just because something was accepted there, it doesn't mean the same will happen here.

The Nanatsu could very well be wrong, we can't just use "that verse does it as well" logic.

 

[The_Calaca]

Two wrongs don't make a right. If X verse does a thing that it's wrong then that verse should be more strict according to our standards.

 

[Pepper14832]

True, but that doesn't mean Garnet is on equal footing as Topaz.

So, she doesn't scale from Topaz? Being thrown by Topaz is in her Durability tho.

Being thrown into a building makes your durability 7-A+ ish?

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's why I said to downgrade NNT as well if this logic is valid

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Being thrown into a building makes your durability 7-A+ ish?

I dunno.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Nanatsu is a completely different verse from Steven Universe though. Just because something was accepted there, it doesn't mean the same will happen here.
The Nanatsu could very well be wrong, we can't just use "that verse does it as well" logic.

Being a different verse means nothing when the method of scaling is the same: Jumping Tiers because a character is superior to another or a stomp chain

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

That's why I said to downgrade NNT as well if this logic is valid

If you want NNT downgraded, go make a NNT thread. This thread is about Steven Universe.

 

[The_Calaca]

Believe me, if I had the knowledge and time I'd revise every verse that use this to upgrade the verses.

 

[Pepper14832]

Being thrown into a building makes your durability 7-A+ ish?

I dunno.

I don't think so. There wasn't much of a fight here. If anything, the fact that Garnet survived being thrown into the building gives her durability higher than Small Building Level.

I think using Garnet vs Jasper here is a much better example.

 

[M3X_2.0]

If you want NNT downgraded, go make a NNT thread. This thread is about Steven Universe.

So does this happen with one verse and not the other, even though it's literally the same thing?This is cherypicking

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

So does this happen with one verse and not the other, even though it's literally the same thing?This is cherypicking

Yeah, this wiki mostly goes with a case by case system. Just because something was decided in one verse, doesn't mean it will affect any other verse, because that decision could very well just be wrong. We need to look at each verse individually.

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's not how it works but whatever

 

[Pepper14832]

I agree that all verses should be equal in terms of how we treat tiering. But continuing the Whataboutism concering other verses is just for spite. Can we continue talking about SU before diving onto another?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

It is. Different verses follow different scalings. You have to look at each one individually.

 

[The_Calaca]

Uh.. yes. The wiki goes with a case-by-case.

But anyway, let's return to the point. The rules says that only with a calced result you can get the +. Multipliers circunvent that. Scaling doesn't.