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Sternritter Profiles Revision [Bleach]

Arc7Kuroi said:
He had plenty of time to whip it out pre inking, if we wanted to give Ichibe passive ability negation with his ink (idk if we do that or not here).
Click to expand...
That still doesn't mean anything though.

We don't scale characters on the basis of "This character could have used this ability against them, but they didn't, so it wouldn't have worked if they tried it."
 
Tsotso said:
Entire is about inclusion of members into the equation, not recognition of different versions of the Gotei.
Click to expand...
Nitpicky semantics. It's referring to the entire Gotei 13, is there any reason it would NOT be including Yamamoto?

If we want to get into semantics and such, "entire" means this:

with no part left out; whole.

"with no part left out". Nothing about this implies it's only talking about the current Gotei 13. Burden of proof's on you to say it is.

Tsotso said:
Tbh Kyoraku did infinitely better against Lille than the 4 non-Ichibei members of Squad Zero.
Click to expand...
You mean like, when every other member of Yhwach's elite are there too. The only reason they didn't block his shot was because it's a hax shot.

Tsotso said:
It is relevant as it is about inclusion of members instead of recognition of a particular version of the oraganization.


Anyone can say this to anything. Doesn't serve as an argument
Click to expand...
Read above.
 
YukaSama4 said:
using a hax right, the dude was getting bullied by a normal stern ritter
Click to expand...
Robert only had two instances of landing damage on Shunsui:
  • When he caught Shunsui off-guard upon activating his Vollstandig.
  • When Shunsui dropped his guard because Yama died.
 
Damage3245 said:
That still doesn't mean anything though.

We don't scale characters on the basis of "This character could have used this ability against them, but they didn't, so it wouldn't have worked if they tried it."
Click to expand...
I know I’m using it to support the current accepted scaling.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Nitpicky semantics. It's referring to the entire Gotei 13, is there any reason it would NOT be including Yamamoto?

If we want to get into semantics and such, "entire" means this:

with no part left out; whole.
Click to expand...
Doesn't prove Yama is included. At the time of the statement, Yama wasn't part of the whole Gotei, he was dead.
 
Tsotso said:
Doesn't prove Yama is included. At the time of the statement, Yama wasn't part of the whole Gotai, he was dead.
Click to expand...
Literally just repeated yourself.

It's not on me to prove Yama is included, it's on you to prove he isn't. It states the entire, every part. NOTHING implies only the current Gotei. YOU need a reason to say he's not included in this other than "but it's only talking about the current gotei" without proof.
 
Guys, the whole "Squad Zero > Gotei 13" statement is not relevant to the proposal. That statement is not the basis of Yhwach's current scaling.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Literally just repeated yourself.
Click to expand...
Because you repeated yourself as well instead of providing a new argument. Same argument from you = same rebuttal from me.

Axxtentacle said:
It's not on me to prove Yama is included, it's on you to prove he isn't.
Click to expand...
It is, as the timing of the statement goes against his inclusion.

Axxtentacle said:
It states the entire, every part.
Click to expand...
Doesn't mean it refers to the earlier version of the Gotei in which Yama wasn't dead. He died, meaning he's no longer a part of the whole.

Axxtentacle said:
NOTHING implies only the current Gotei.
Click to expand...
The timing of the statement does.

Axxtentacle said:
YOU need a reason to say he's not included in this other than "but it's only talking about the current gotei" without proof.
Click to expand...
A statement referring to an organization by default refers to the current version unless it alludes to an older one, which isn't the case with Shunsui's statement.
 
Right now I understand how the guy who triggered WW1 by assassinating Archduke Franz Ferdinand felt.

@Damage3245 Sorry for accidentally derailing the thread by trying to clarify the objective implications of Shunsui's SZ > Gotei statement.
 
Tsotso said:
Because you repeated yourself as well instead of providing a new argument. Same argument from you = same rebuttal from me.
Click to expand...
No, I gave a counter with an explanation.
Tsotso said:
It is, as the timing of the statement goes against his inclusion.
Click to expand...
No it does not. Nothing about that would inherently mean he's not included.
Tsotso said:
Doesn't mean it refers to the earlier version of the Gotei in which Yama wasn't dead. He died, meaning he's no longer a part of the whole.
Click to expand...
"Earlier version of the gotei" "every part" yes, it does.
Tsotso said:
The timing of the statement does.
Click to expand...
Not inherently.
Tsotso said:
A statement referring to an organization by default refers to the current version unless it alludes to an older one, which isn't the case with Shunsui's statement.
Click to expand...
No it literally does not, what? It does not default refer to the current version till proven otherwise. That's not a rule nor is that an agreed-upon thing, that's just something you're saying because it works with your argument.
 
Just wanna ask one question on the whole squad 0 is greater than the gotei 13, didn't Yhwach say they should leave before squad 0 shows up? Kinda indicating he felt they would be able to beat him and the sternritter?
 
SilentBob34 said:
Just wanna ask one question on the whole squad 0 is greater than the gotei 13, didn't Yhwach say they should leave before squad 0 shows up? Kinda indicating he felt they would be able to beat him and the sternritter?
Click to expand...
Yhwach said that they should retreat and wait for them to arrive.

However Yhwach was also operating on a time-limit since he'd need to return to the shadow area.

Of course Yhwach also felt confident facing the entire Zero Guard with just himself, his Elite Sternritter and The Wind dude. So he couldn't have been thinking that the Zero Squad would just beat all of his forces.
 
SilentBob34 said:
Just wanna ask one question on the whole squad 0 is greater than the gotei 13, didn't Yhwach say they should leave before squad 0 shows up? Kinda indicating he felt they would be able to beat him and the sternritter?
Click to expand...
I think it was because Yhwach was on some time limit or something like that and had to go back to Silbern.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Do the Quincy who stole the Bankai scale to the Bankai.
Click to expand...
Hm. I mean, I don't think they necessarily have to? If they have a brief skirmish or something with the bankai I can see it. Unless there's something like a "you need to be at least this strong to handle using it" but if not i'm not really for the idea.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Hm. I mean, I don't think they necessarily have to? If they have a brief skirmish or something with the bankai I can see it. Unless there's something like a "you need to be at least this strong to handle using it" but if not i'm not really for the idea.
Click to expand...
Yhwach indicates you need comparable power.
 
Damage3245 said:
Yhwach said that they should retreat and wait for them to arrive.

However Yhwach was also operating on a time-limit since he'd need to return to the shadow area.

Of course Yhwach also felt confident facing the entire Zero Guard with just himself, his Elite Sternritter and The Wind dude. So he couldn't have been thinking that the Zero Squad would just beat all of his forces.
Click to expand...
Yeah you’re not wrong lol. Anyway I’m a little torn on the whole Quincy stealing bankai and scaling.
 
“Who else can control your immense power except me” most certainly implies a relativity of sorts as Yhwach specifically draws attention to how immense it is aka its power level.
 
Ah, I see. Yhwach was the only one capable of using it because of it's power.

I think this would imply that this would be the case for the other bankais too, seems decently straightforward unless there's a reason to believe something else.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
“Who else can control your immense power except me” most certainly implies a relativity of sorts as Yhwach specifically draws attention to how immense it is aka its power level.
Click to expand...
The issue is, Yamamoto himself can control his own immense power.

But we only rate him as Continent level+ with his Bankai. Without his Bankai, we only rate him as Country level.

So Yhwach without the Bankai should not be rated as Continent level+.

At best it's a foundation for scaling him to be equal to Yamamoto. But not to Yamamoto's Bankai.
 
Damage3245 said:
The issue is, Yamamoto himself can control his own immense power.

But we only rate him as Continent level+ with his Bankai. Without his Bankai, we only rate him as Country level.

So Yhwach without the Bankai should not be rated as Continent level+.

At best it's a foundation for scaling him to be equal to Yamamoto. But not to Yamamoto's Bankai.
Click to expand...
That’s because the Zanpakuto seal the blade the medallions only steal it. Also that’s irrelevant to the quote, the “immense power” Yhwach was referring to being able to withstand is the Bankai.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
That’s because the Zanpakuto seal the blade the medallions only steal it. Also that’s irrelevant to the quote, the “immense power” Yhwach was referring to being able to withstand is the Bankai.
Click to expand...
Can you prove that the only requirement to control the immense power is to have an equal power to it?

Also I don't get your point about the Zanpakuto.

EDIT: As far as I can tell, my point about Yama controlling his own Bankai has not been debunked.

Yama can control his own immense power; but Yama doesn't scale to it.

Yhwach can control Yama's immense power, but he shouldn't scale to it either.

If a characters gets a power-up, and then show that they can control the new power-up they get, then that doesn't backscale to say that they were equal to the power-up all along.
 
Last edited:
But Yhwach doesn’t have a shikai or bankai like shinigami do so I’m a little confused on why you’re using Yamamoto for that. He easily one shot Yamamoto without his bankai so base Yhwach >> base and shikai Yamamoto
 
SilentBob34 said:
But Yhwach doesn’t have a shikai or bankai like shinigami do so I’m a little confused on why you’re using Yamamoto for that. He easily one shot Yamamoto without his bankai so base Yhwach >> base and shikai Yamamoto
Click to expand...
Yes. I agree Base Yhwach >> Shikai Yamamoto.

That's why I'm fine with rating Yhwach's profile with Yhwach >> Shikai Yamamoto.

But I don't agree with Yhwach = Bankai Yamamoto.
 
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