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Stat x Change for a Spy x Family

DenLitz said:
I'm not sure about this one, Mach 3.16 has a better feat.
Click to expand...
The value is not the main point here. If the calc is accurate, then it's accurate, regardless of the value.

If it's not, we'll should make it accurate regardless if that's going to downgrade or upgrade a character. The value behind a certain feat should not be priority.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
If the calc is accurate, then it's accurate, regardless of the value.
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The timeframe you are using is not reliably stated in the manga, in contrast to Mach 3.16 feat which is reliably stated.

I'm not sure the Calculation standard in Vsbw is that loose.

If such a calculation is allowed, I will also use it so that my favorite character has a higher speed.
 
DenLitz said:
The timeframe you are using is not reliably stated in the manga, in contrast to Mach 3.16 feat which is reliably stated.

I'm not sure the Calculation standard in Vsbw is that loose.

If such a calculation is allowed, I will also use it so that my favorite character has a higher speed.
Click to expand...
Huh? There is no timeframe used on my calculation.
 
DenLitz said:
It exist.

if you say no, Then you yourself do not understand the concept of the formula you are using.
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I don't understand... rule of three? Obviously there is a timeframe there, but said timeframe is not a necessary factor, it does not need to partake in the calculation itself.

I just need two distances, and one measurable speed, and then basic rule of three. How is that "loose calculation standards", that's the most basic stuff you can do. You're nitpicking a value that is quite literally a byproduct of the measurable distances given by the visuals of the manga and a low end speed. What the absolute HFIL are you on about, my dear friend?
 
GodlyCharmander said:
I don't understand... rule of three? Obviously there is a timeframe there, but said timeframe is not a necessary factor, it does not need to partake in the calculation itself.

I just need two distances, and one measurable speed, and then basic rule of three. How is that "loose calculation standards", that's the most basic stuff you can do. You're nitpicking a value that is quite literally a byproduct of the measurable distances given by the visuals of the manga and a low end speed. What the absolute HFIL are you on about, my dear friend?
Click to expand...
You are using a Value that is not reliably stated in the manga to get the timeframe.

You are looking for a T with a value of 12 m/s which is not reliably stated in the manga, it can vary in value(because not stated reliably in Manga) .

No offense just yet, I just doubt it conforms to the "strict" Vsbw standards as far as I know.

I don't have any serious issues, but if it's up to Vsbw standards, I'll also use it to increase the speed of my favorite characters massively.

Now wait for KLOL/another CGM, if allowed, I will immediately count similar achievements of my favorite characters, with such loose standards I will get massive results for my favorite characters.

It's exactly like Calc Stacking which yields massive results.
 
DenLitz said:
You are using a Value that is not reliably stated in the manga to get the timeframe.

You are looking for a T with a value of 12 m/s which is not reliably stated in the manga, it can vary in value(because not stated reliably in Manga) .
Click to expand...
Yeah no, that's where my bullshit meter goes off. Projectile velocity does not need to be stated in a story like that to be usable. This is like asking "Is the AR-15 rifle in this manga really shooting at 960 m/s despite it not being stated in the story", NO, WE HAVE ESTABLISHED MUZZLE VELOCITIES FOR BULLETS IN REAL LIFE, WE DON'T NEED ANYTHING ELSE. We can use established IRL speeds for attack maneuvers in a fictional story as a baseline, same for handguns and bullets in fiction if they resemble their IRL counterparts closely.

Keywords being ESTABLISHED IN-REAL-LIFE VELOCITIES. Common sense should dictate that if the thing in fiction looks like and acts like or shares a shitload of properties with the real thing, chances are, it shares the same characteristics as the real thing.

DenLitz said:
No offense just yet, I just doubt it conforms to the "strict" Vsbw standards as far as I know.
Click to expand...
No, it just shows me you have much to learn about how our "strict" standards actually work.

DenLitz said:
I don't have any serious issues, but if it's up to Vsbw standards, I'll also use it to increase the speed of my favorite characters massively.
Click to expand...
Hey, as long as it's accurate, go for it.

DenLitz said:
Now wait for KLOL/another CGM, if allowed, I will immediately count similar achievements of my favorite characters, with such loose standards I will get massive results for my favorite characters.


It's exactly like Calc Stacking which yields massive results.
Click to expand...
LMFAO what

You can use visuals for calculating distance between projectile and character at the time of dodging more accurately. Nowhere do I see where calc stacking occurs here.
 
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DenLitz said:
You are using a Value that is not reliably stated in the manga to get the timeframe.

You are looking for a T with a value of 12 m/s which is not reliably stated in the manga, it can vary in value(because not stated reliably in Manga).
Click to expand...
I don't know where to begin...
I am not looking for T (Timeframe), the timeframe is resultant of other values, and not a factor for the calculation.

Claiming the speed which this fictional character can thrust a spear is variable is frivolous at best, and incongruent at worst. Yes, obviously the value is not set in stone, but we can use basic interpretation given by the work, the characters, and the setting of the world they're in to conclude plausible values to use in calculations. In this particular case, we are talking about a guy who runs an organization of assassins with Superhuman abilities, including strength and speed far beyond any natural human could ever achieve, still, his speed, despite being subpar when compared to even a casual Yor, still manages to surprise the much faster, supersonic assassin. It is fair to assume the guy also has some superhuman capacities, or at least above average.

The value does not come from thin air, my dear Den, no. It comes from a scientific research which uses normal people as subjects for testing one-handed thrusting speed, with 12 meters per second being the best result amongst the normal person. Now, considering how far beyond humanity these characters are, how far beyond the human capacity this setting allows their characters to go, do you think the variables regarding the thrusting speed of this likely-to-be superhuman character could even fall behind a real life, normal person, with no training, spear thrusting speed? 12 meters per second does not act as a definitive factor for the character, or the calculation, no. It acts as the absolutely lowest point you can say this character could even go, based on interpretation, context, and the setting, all given to us by the narrative and the story.

You are actually under the strangest assumption that something needs to be said out loud in the manga for it to even be remotely usable. That is confirmation bias, and I am sorry to inform you, but you are incorrect.

In no way does our rules regarding calculations requires the manga to say the values to us directly. If your calculation is based on sound logic, and it is something that actually occurred in the particular media you're trying to calculate, plus, it has little to no contradictions, you are good to go. Furthermore, your petulant insistence on talking about this "favorite character" of yours leads me to believe you have a vendetta about some calculation about said character that was rejected, likely because there was an actual incoherent factor in it, and thus, you interpreted the reasoning behind said rejection in the most twisted way possible, and then began to spread said thought through other threads. But that is just a hypothesis of mine.
DenLitz said:
It's exactly like Calc Stacking which yields massive results.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting way to misuse a term, Den.

I will indulge you on this. I challenge you to define Calc Stacking to me, and make a logical "bridge" between this concept and my calculation. Connect the two for me, because not only me, but @KLOL506 is struggling quite a lot to see said connection, at all. I really wish to read your reasoning behind such a claim.
 
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Ah, I've been arguing with KLOL in DC.

And he seems to explain it pretty well here.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
I don't know where to begin...
I am not looking for T (Timeframe), the timeframe is resultant of other values, and not a factor for the calculation.

Claiming the speed which this fictional character can thrust a spear is variable is frivolous at best, and incongruent at worst. Yes, obviously the value is not set in stone, but we can use basic interpretation given by the work, the characters, and the setting of the world they're in to conclude plausible values to use in calculations. In this particular case, we are talking about a guy who runs an organization of assassins with Superhuman abilities, including strength and speed far beyond any natural human could ever achieve, still, his speed, despite being subpar when compared to even a casual Yor, still manages to surprise the much faster, supersonic assassin. It is fair to assume the guy also has some superhuman capacities, or at least above average.

The value does not come from thin air, my dear Den, no. It comes from a scientific research which uses normal people as subjects for testing one-handed thrusting speed, with 12 meters per second being the best result amongst the normal person. Now, considering how far beyond humanity these characters are, how far beyond the human capacity this setting allows their characters to go, do you think the variables regarding the thrusting speed of this likely-to-be superhuman character could even fall behind a real life, normal person, with no training, spear thrusting speed? 12 meters per second does not act as a definitive factor for the character, or the calculation, no. It acts as the absolutely lowest point you can say this character could even go, based on interpretation, context, and the setting, all given to us by the narrative and the story.

You are actually under the strangest assumption that something needs to be said out loud in the manga for it to even be remotely usable. That is confirmation bias, and I am sorry to inform you, but you are incorrect.

In no way does our rules regarding calculations requires the manga to say the values to us directly. If your calculation is based on sound logic, and it is something that actually occurred in the particular media you're trying to calculate, plus, it has little to no contradictions, you are good to go. Furthermore, your petulant insistence on talking about this "favorite character" of yours leads me to believe you have a vendetta about some calculation about said character that was rejected, likely because there was an actual incoherent factor in it, and thus, you interpreted the reasoning behind said rejection in the most twisted way possible, and then began to spread said thought through other threads. But that is just a hypothesis of mine.

That is an interesting way to misuse a term, Den.

I will indulge you on this. I challenge you to define Calc Stacking to me, and make a logical "bridge" between this concept and my calculation. Connect the two for me, because not only me, but @KLOL506 is struggling quite a lot to see said connection, at all. I really wish to read your reasoning behind such a claim.
Click to expand...
Talk about hitting the nail on the head. Another reason as to why the speed value here is perfectly fine to use. People just don't get context sometimes.
 
How about 9-A Yor? I think we need to delete it first on the profile, if the calculation is really rejected.
 
DenLitz said:
How about 9-A Yor? I think we need to delete it first on the profile, if the calculation is really rejected.
Click to expand...
LOL what

That calc ain't rejected, it got accepted, it's perfectly fine.
 
DenLitz said:
How about 9-A Yor? I think we need to delete it first on the profile, if the calculation is really rejected.
Click to expand...
Qawsedf234 said:
Though it may be a moot point. In this case this would be one of the times where I would think it might be better to just wait for the anime to cover it since the manga lacks a lot of environmental establishing shots. So the rating being applied now then discussed later is better imo.
Click to expand...
It was agreed to leave the calculation alone til the anime adaptation to clear up the timeframe properly
 
KobsterHope07 said:
that is left for this thread is decide Loid's AP
Click to expand...
Loid is just some degree of 9-B. Afaik he's basically stomped everyone he's fought and doesn't have a reason to scale to his durability at the moment.
KobsterHope07 said:
timeframe properly
Click to expand...
It's not really the timeframe as much as the angle. If the car was shifted 90 degrees to the left Yor would need to overpower it inertia. If it shifted at like 1-45 degrees she doesn't need that much energy to cause it shifted direction.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It's not really the timeframe as much as the angle. If the car was shifted 90 degrees to the left Yor would need to overpower it inertia. If it shifted at like 1-45 degrees she doesn't need that much energy to cause it shifted direction.
Click to expand...
Yeah, making a car completely shifting to the other direction it's travelling at would need you to overpower the car's own movement.
 
So how about this for the rating for Loid for now:
Attack Potency: Wall level (Can crack and break a table)

Speed: Supersonic+ (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can perform this feat)

Lifting Strength: Class 10 (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can do this)

Striking Strength: Wall Class

Durability: Wall level (Comparable to his Attack Power), possibly higher (He could remain standing after being kicked by a drunk and embarrassed Yor, but he was eventually knocked out for five minutes and developed a swollen chin)
Click to expand...
 
Not really nah. Considering that regardless of the force we calc that kick at, a kick that can redirect a speeding car > whatever the car is made of so Yor’s foot should have folded the kicked surface in half or punched right through that part of the car.
 
The effects on the pole are irrealistic regardless of the values you use, the sheer amount of force behind the kick made the car completely change direction. Again, we're waiting for the anime for a more irrefutable timeframe, but the results will likely be irrealistic there too.
 
People are still on the Yor's feat while I'm still trying to get final confirmation on Loid's AP rating. Is this good enough for Loid for now:

Attack Potency: Wall level (Can crack and break a table)

Speed: Supersonic+ (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can perform this feat)

Lifting Strength: Class 10 (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can do this)

Striking Strength: Wall Class

Durability: Wall level (Comparable to his Attack Power), possibly higher (He could remain standing after being kicked by a drunk and embarrassed Yor, but he was eventually knocked out for five minutes and developed a swollen chin afterward)
 
GodlyCharmander said:
The effects on the pole are irrealistic regardless of the values you use, the sheer amount of force behind the kick made the car completely change direction. Again, we're waiting for the anime for a more irrefutable timeframe, but the results will likely be irrealistic there too.
Click to expand...
Yeah, even in the anime if the timeframes are absurd but the car hitting into a pole is maintained the results would still not follow IRL physics.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Not really nah. Considering that regardless of the force we calc that kick at, a kick that can redirect a speeding car > whatever the car is made of so Yor’s foot should have folded the kicked surface in half or punched right through that part of the car.
Click to expand...
Also this. Cars getting t-boned would cause significant damage to the chassis.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Yeah, though I wouldn't use "superior to Nightfall" as much as "comparable to Nightfall" and maybe show them being even in tennis.
Click to expand...
Twilight is very likely superior, as he is the best agent of the organization, and has shown to be far above most of his "over SS Rank" co-workers.
 
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