Stat x Change for a Spy x Family

[GodlyCharmander]

Bullets isn't exactly the same thing as being hurt by your own feat. Especially given it's a bullet, piercing damage and what not exists and one of the most common thing in media let alone shounen, is bullets being able to harm those above their paygrade.

People really like to throw around the term "Piercing Damage" as if that alone means anything. Bullets are built to deliver it's insane (for us) amounts of energy in a very small surface area, thus, allowing for the energy (which wouldn't be able to do much on a larger area) to pierce through strong materials by having a higher energy-to-resistance ratio.

Point is, that shouldn't hurt Yor regardless of bullet's piercing damage (especially bullets from the 40's), so saying that isn't going to cut it.

Of course, you are right about bullets hurting people of higher level than it's supposed to being a common aspect of fiction in general, but so is "Higher tier character getting lower tier durability feats". We do have the instance of Loid surviving a kick supposedly 100x stronger than him, and we can tell he should not have survived that kick (given the table scaling is, or close to, his peak) without even needing to use math, kicking a car is stupendously beyond punch a wooden table by visuals alone. Either way, all I am saying, is that Loid downscaling from Yor shouldn't be discarded, and should be at least a possibility. We might get newer instances of Yor vs Loid in the future that will clear up the scaling between the two

That's also a huge false equivalence, Loid wasn't hurt by a mundane thing or a thing lower than him

"mundane" in the context of this scaling. A character who scales to 9-A getting hurt by backlash of his 9-B punch is still, nonetheless, mundane.
Again, this is under the assumption that the scaling is correct.

(such as the bomb in that one chapter), it was literally his own quantifiable feat that's like 100x below a casual attack from Yor which damaged him a bit, you'd have to literally disregard his own feat for this scaling to make sense, not at all related to the example of what you're using.

It doesn't have to be "related" directly to my example. Yor's example shows that the work has incoherent comprehension of it's character's durabilities, thus, Loid punching a table and getting slightly damaged shouldn't invalidate him from scaling higher.
As of now, again, I believe a "possibly" could be added, we have two feats of "durability" on Loid, so we cannot say which one is an outlier yet, if any.

 

[Qawsedf234]

. A character who scales to 9-A getting hurt by backlash of his 9-B punch is still, nonetheless, mundane.

In that case Loid would have possibly 9-A durability, not AP.

 

[Worthless]

"Albeit far weaker, Loid could survive a kick from Yor while off guard, with nothing but a swollen chin the next day"

Something along those lines.

lol

 

[Ian2296]

I have a few problems about the kicking car one.

1. The calc assumed the car smacked the pole even before she finished her movement, but the problem is, Yor literally had fully extended her leg right after car was kicked. Therefore, assuming the car reached the pole before her kick being covered just doesn’t make any sense.
2. Having a supersonic car… is already really, really weird. So here, you have a car which generates 9-A worth of KE but it didn't even broke a pole? It didn’t make an appropriate colaterral damage it's supposed to be. It’s inexplicable.
3. The car didn’t get speed up, Yor literally just changed its direction by kicking it from the side (which means the speed stayed as before). This should explained why the car didn’t do much damage after hitting stuffs.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

with nothing but a swollen chin the next day

A cartoonishly swollen chin after being rendered dazed and disoriented and falling unconscious — which he had never done since his days in training — for five minutes with a busted lip.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

In that case Loid would have possibly 9-A durability, not AP.

Yeah.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

A cartoonishly swollen chin after being rendered dazed and disoriented and falling unconscious — which he had never done since his days in training — for five minutes with a busted lip.

That's still not the lasting sequels from someone 100x times stronger than you kicking you to the jaw.

A possibly is still plausible

 

[GodlyCharmander]

1. The calc assumed the car smacked the pole even before she finished her movement, but the problem is, Yor literally had fully extended her leg right after car was kicked. Therefore, assuming the car reached the pole before her kick being covered just doesn’t make any sense.

It was a rolling kick, common in kickboxing, extending your leg isn't the fullest extent of your movement.

You do an angular movement in the shape of an 150° arc, after connecting, you'd still curve your leg inwards to finish the movement. The fact I assumed it's just half the angular movement when it's likely far less, should be a low end.

2. Having a supersonic car… is already really, really weird. So here, you have a car which generates 9-A worth of KE but it didn't even broke a pole? It didn’t make an appropriate colaterral damage it's supposed to be. It’s inexplicable.

Doesn't break the KE rules.

3. The car didn’t get speed up, Yor literally just changed its direction by kicking it from the side (which means the speed stayed as before). This should explained why the car didn’t do much damage after hitting stuffs.

That is, sir, impossible to tell from the manga panel. It couldn't possibly be the car's own speed, she forcibly changed the direction, completely messing the inertia of said car, going a completely different direction.
Thus, it would be impossible for the car to use its own speed to travel a different directio, given the fact it would have passed through the pole in less than a second had it continued it's movement.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yeah.

Actually no, I believe it would also go for AP, Loid can hurt those who can hurt him.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Doesn't break the KE rules.

Funny you say that.

It not breaking the light pole would break one of our KE rules

Though you may want to move this issue here: https://vsbattles.com/posts/4743340/

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Funny you say that.

Thing is, the effects on the pole are unrealistic regardless of the speed I used. Even at 90km/h, rather mild for speeding cars, would generate

0.5*2000*25^2 = 625000 Joules, 625 Kilojoules (Wall level)

That's enough to break that pole. And the guy would have enough time to react in this case.

 

[Fikriskps]

May i ask where the car speed come from 407m/s

 

[GodlyCharmander]

May i ask where the car speed come from 407m/s

That's the speed the car went when kicked by Yor. The car crossed 10 meters before Yor finished her rolling kick movement, thus, it happened in a short timeframe, resulting in this speed. Her kick was responsible for all the momentum, acceleration and speed, as the car was going in a different direction (thus exerting force to that particular direction), and it would be nearly impossible for it to aid in said speed due to inertia.

 

[Ian2296]

your movement.

What exactly is the movement here? And why do you assume it must've been a 150° kick? Cuz I searched for some rolling kick reference and the movement was pretty different from what Yor does.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The car crossed 10 meters before Yor finished her rolling kick movement

Well she did finish her kick as a note, since the kick impacted means it was finished. What happened was that it hit the light pole before he put her leg back down.

That's enough to break that pole.

Well, not really possibly not. Doing some quick looks at IRL damage

• A 70 MPH crash
• Hit and run impact
• Drunk driving crash

It being bent over is actually reasonable for speeds you would achieve in city limits. Though at higher levels of speed the fact it was only bent would be an issue.

 

[Ian2296]

Also, I want to point out that the car looks like an Oltcit Club, so the weight is around 835-875 kg.

 

[DenLitz]

Same thought, some calculations on blog are not good to use.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Well she did finish her kick as a note, since the kick impacted means it was finished. What happened was that it hit the light pole before he put her leg back down.

The movement didn't. She prepared the kick by bending her leg, did an angular movement (connecting the kick when the leg fully extended), and finishing it by bending it again at the end of the movement. Judging by the pose, she'd hit the car with the bottom of her foot too.

Well, not really possibly not. Doing some quick looks at IRL damage

• A 70 MPH crash
• Hit and run impact
• Drunk driving crash

It being bent over is actually reasonable for speeds you would achieve in city limits. Though at higher levels of speed the fact it was only bent would be an issue.

It was likely going as fast as it could have been given it was trying to flee from the best agent from Westalis. (Clearly not respecting traffic too, so definitely above city limits). It was likely faster than what the car was actually going too, since it was less than two meters away from passing by the pole, and yet, it hit travelled 10 meters to hit it thanks to Yor's kick (meaning she cancelled the inertia, and managed to kick it in a shorter timeframe than it would've taken if the car just went straight ahead with no interruptions)
Either way, the pole is likely inaccurate with any results that aren't straight downplay.

 

[Qawsedf234]

judging by the pose, she'd hit the car with the bottom of her foot too.

That's how a kick works. You can see it was perfectly straight and right after she had brought it back. The kick was completely when she hit the car, which is where the speed used for the kick would come into play.

was likely faster than what the car was actually going too

But there's a difference here. The car going fast is fine, I even included damage reports of cars going 70-80 MPH in those circumstances with similar damage.

But they're not going at the speeds you're implying here due to how congested a city is.

since it was less than two meters away from passing by the pole, and yet, it hit travelled 10 meters to hit it thanks to Yor's kick

I'm sort of confused by what you mean here. Going by the street image given earlier it looks like the light pole he hit would away from the bridge, since they seem to be spaced as pairs at an even distance away from each other. Since he already crossed the bridge Yor just kicked the car to the next set of light poles.

meaning she cancelled the inertia

That's only if she forced him to change directions at something greater than 90 degrees. As seen by the kick the angle she adjusted the car at was at an acute one. She applied enough force to cause it to shift its vector, but that wouldn't require cancelling all of the inertia.

Though it may be a moot point. In this case this would be one of the times where I would think it might be better to just wait for the anime to cover it since the manga lacks a lot of environmental establishing shots. So the rating being applied now then discussed later is better imo.

 

[Fikriskps]

Im kinda disagree with this calc

Just because The Manga Said Its faster as sound doesnt Mean Its Really Faster Than sound. 343m/s
And i think the ball doesnt really can Go 343m/s

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Manga Said Its fast as sound doesnt Mean Its Really Fast as sound

The ball was supersonic. It even formed a shockwave that shattered the ground under it.

 

[Fikriskps]

The ball was supersonic. It even formed a shockwave that shattered the ground under it.

Do really the ball Go 343m/s?

 

[Ian2296]

Like Qawsedf said, the speed of the kick was only relevant until she kicks the car, the motion of reverting her feet back isn't correlated to the speed of the kick since it's literally not a motion of kicking

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do really the ball Go 343m/s?

All evidence points to it:

• It formed a shockwave that destroyed the ground under it
• It was preformed by a character consistently shown to be massively superhuman
• It was called supersonic

 

[Dalesean027]

Im kinda disagree with this calc

Just because The Manga Said Its faster as sound doesnt Mean Its Really Faster Than sound. 343m/s
And i think the ball doesnt really can Go 343m/s

That's not at a a refutation to it being faster than sound lol and we're literally getting word from Nightfall saying this of all characters she's not one to play up her opponents or make these kinds of unbased statements

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Im kinda disagree with this calc

Just because The Manga Said Its faster as sound doesnt Mean Its Really Faster Than sound. 343m/s
And i think the ball doesnt really can Go 343m/s

"The manga is lying because I don't believe the ball can go that fast"

Bruh.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Though it may be a moot point. In this case this would be one of the times where I would think it might be better to just wait for the anime to cover it since the manga lacks a lot of environmental establishing shots. So the rating being applied now then discussed later is better imo.

I believe this might be the better solution. The adaptation will clear up the timeframe properly. (Although it seems to nerf a lot of impact feats when compared to the manga, mostly punches and kicks)

Either way, I will keep reading, see if I can find anything new. Changes on Yor's profile are already applied for now, we'd need to get to a consensus if Loid can get a "possibly" rating to baseline 9-A.

 

[KLOL506]

BTW, I want to point out an issue with the tennis serve. We shouldn't use the full racquet here because it's not extending out to the front of Fiona's arm, but it's facing out to the side when the impact lands on the ball (AKA it's not adding any more length like a body extension), so only her arm should be used for the swing (The racquet would have been usable if it was facing the same direction as her arm, but as tennis dictates, you gotta hit the ball first. So yeah, just use the arm for this one.

As for the distance between the ball and her face? I think we can shave off even more distance between the ball, as the scans imply that she saw the ball coming in at Supersonic at the very last instance, not giving her much time to serve other than just put all her might into it, so maybe assume that the ball is about a fisted arm's distance away from her face? HOLY SHIT I DID NOT NOTICE THE BALL GETTING EVEN CLOSER TO HER FACE, CARRY ON.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

BTW, I want to point out an issue with the tennis serve. We shouldn't use the full racquet here because it's not extending out to the front of Fiona's arm, but it's facing out to the side when the impact lands on the ball (AKA it's not adding any more length like a body extension), so only her arm should be used for the swing (The racquet would have been usable if it was facing the same direction as her arm, but as tennis dictates, you gotta hit the ball first. So yeah, just use the arm for this one.

As for the distance between the ball and her face? I think we can shave off even more distance between the ball, as the scans imply that she saw the ball coming in at Supersonic at the very last instance, not giving her much time to serve other than just put all her might into it, so maybe assume that the ball is about a fisted arm's distance away from her face? HOLY SHIT I DID NOT NOTICE THE BALL GETTING EVEN CLOSER TO HER FACE, CARRY ON.

Bet. Fixing.

 

[KLOL506]

Bet. Fixing.

You can use the Proportions calculator for better lengths until the time comes where a proper image of Fiona standing straight comes up in the manga.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You can use the Proportions calculator for better lengths until the time comes where a proper image of Fiona standing straight comes up in the manga.

oh... We actually have some good images, I was just being lazy

 

[KLOL506]

oh... We actually have some good images, I was just being lazy

Nice, now just measure her arm and we good to go.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Nice, now just measure her arm and we good to go.

Bet.

Fiona: 1592px/1.72m
Arm: 636px = (636/1592)*1.72 = 0.687135678m

1.5708 rad means
0.687135678×1.5708 = 1.07935272m

Speed: (1.07935272 /0.3670103305784)×369.4 = 1086.38058m/s - Supersonic+ (Mach 3.16)

Quite the downgrade, but still, very much impressive for a (mostly) featless verse in the speed department.

I'm bored,

Please update the speed calc.

Unfortunately, the hypersonic upscaling is simply impossible, so both Loid and Yor are going to be downgraded to Supersonic+, scaling above Mach 3.16 to a unknown degree.

 

[DenLitz]

Speed calculations seem to have been fixed & I'm fine, so Hypersonic Yor & Loid will be downgrade to Supersonic+ in they profile.

 

[Fikriskps]

Bet.

Fiona: 1592px/1.72m
Arm: 564px = (564/1592)*1.72 = 0.609346734m

1.5708 rad means
0.609346734×1.5708 = 0.95716185m

Speed: (0.95716185 /0.3670103305784)×369.4 = 963.3941m/s - Supersonic+ (Mach 2.8)

Quite the downgrade, but still, very much impressive for a (mostly) featless verse in the speed department.

Please update the speed calc.

Unfortunately, the hypersonic upscaling is simply impossible, so both Loid and Yor are going to be downgraded to Supersonic+, scaling above Mach 2.8 to a unknown degree.

Wow its so quick, And Im Agree with this one More Consistence .

 

[KLOL506]

Bet.

Fiona: 1592px/1.72m
Arm: 564px = (564/1592)*1.72 = 0.609346734m

Add up to the knuckle man, you only did it up to the wrist, extend the blue line a bit further

Also that image is kinda cut off.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Add up to the knuckle man, you only did it up to the wrist, extend the blue line a bit further.

Okay.

Also that image is kinda cut off.

The portion of her feet that is cut off is marginal at best, eyeballing should have a very minor margin of error.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Bet.

Fiona: 1592px/1.72m
Arm: 636px = (636/1592)*1.72 = 0.687135678m

1.5708 rad means
0.687135678×1.5708 = 1.07935272m

Speed: (1.07935272 /0.3670103305784)×369.4 = 1086.38058m/s - Supersonic+ (Mach 3.16)

Quite the downgrade, but still, very much impressive for a (mostly) featless verse in the speed department.

Please update the speed calc.

Unfortunately, the hypersonic upscaling is simply impossible, so both Loid and Yor are going to be downgraded to Supersonic+, scaling above Mach 3.16 to a unknown degree.

I have updated the speed calculation according to this.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Alright! Do we have any other complaint about the current ratings that have not been discussed yet?

Cause honestly, this "questioning at the last second" thing is getting old-

 

[KobsterHope07]

Also, what is the general consensus for Loid's rating, is it just 9-B or 9-B, possibly 9-A [I seen in earlier comments that we're leaving Yor's 9-A calc alone til the anime):

Attack Potency: Wall level (Can crack and break a table)

Speed: Supersonic+ (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can perform this feat)

Lifting Strength: Class 10 (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can do this)

Striking Strength: Wall Class

Durability: Wall level (Comparable to his Attack Power)

Or

Attack Potency: Wall level, possibly Small Building level (Can crack and break a table. Can fight those who can harm him)

Speed: Supersonic+ (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can perform this feat)

Lifting Strength: Class 10 (As Westalis's greatest spy, he should be superior to Nightfall, who can do this)

Striking Strength: Wall Class, possibly Small Building Class

Durability: Wall level (Comparable to his Attack Power), possibly Small Building level (Albeit far weaker, Loid could survive a kick from Yor while off guard, with nothing but a swollen chin the next day)