Star Wars Revision?

[SaiyanSage]

It still bothers me that the wave of Force energy of thay caliber (with the affecting stars/Earth shaking) was released by Palpatine right after Plagueis had died.
Going by sequence of events, it means that Palpatine became the strongest Sith Lord in history right after Plagueis' death.

There is insufficient proof that Plagueis = Palpatine after killing Plagueis.

I'm not exactly sure what you're implying...

TPM Palpatine and Plagueis are supposed to be near equals (with the strong implication that Palpatine would surpass his master), and after Plagueis' death Palpatine would get stronger over the course of 10 years leading up to the Clone Wars and ROTS.

 

[Lina_Shields]

We don't know how much stronger Palpatine got during the time gap between the Phantom Menace and the Clone Wars.

Thus, my proposal is that:

• Plagueis/TPM Sidious = At least Moon level (Don't think TPM Sidious would be that much weaker than his CW counterpart)
• CW/RotS Sidious = At least Small Planet level (Cited to be the strongest Sith lord in history)

 

[SaiyanSage]

We don't know how much stronger Palpatine got during the time gap between the Phantom Menace and the Clone Wars.
Thus, my proposal is that:

• Plagueis/TPM Sidious = At least Moon level (Don't think TPM Sidious would be that much weaker than his CW counterpart)
• CW/RotS Sidious = At least Small Planet level (Cited to be the strongest Sith lord in history)

Excellent point, however we do know that for the next ten years before the Clone Wars Palpatine was Supreme Chancellor, then continued to be Supreme Chancellor for the next three years of the war itself. Plus he used a technique that hid his presence in the Dark side from the Jedi. So his power must've peaked at some point...

And I do agree with the analysis presented.

 

[Drellix]

Are you guys working on Legends or Disney Canon?

 

[SaiyanSage]

Are you guys working on Legends or Disney Canon?

Legends

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Since Plageuis did something similar to his master when he died.

No he did not.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

The quake things is believable since it was an actual quake seemingly but the shaking stars thing is definitely flowery hyperbolic language. The shaking the stars thing was an indication not of Palpatine's power growing but more of a "shift" in the Dark Side of the Force. The language used (the heavens "anointing" Palpatine as the new Dark Lord) indicates this shift more than Palpatine's power growing. It has something to do with the Light Side blanket over the galaxy and the shroud Plagueis brought over it. I'd go into more detail but I don't feel like writing a thousand words right now. I'll just say that Plagueis and Palpatine brought a "Dark Side" shroud over the galaxy just before Anakin was conceived as a sort of "experiment" against the Yasalamiri-like Force bubble of Light Side energy the Jedi had seemingly cast over the galaxy.

Also, Palpatine says to Plagueis something along the lines of "you've crafted/made one of the strongest Sith in history" just as he is killing him and not after. And there are other things in the book that indicate Plagueis and Sidious are not too far off from each other in power. Both are state to be some of the most powerful Sith Lords in all of history. Palpatine stating Plagueis can also likely match "the best of the Jedi" in combat is another thing. He states this as he is meeting Windu and Yoda outside the senate building.

Edit: It probably wouldn't be wrong to scale Plagueis from post-Nathema Vitiate and put him at 5-C (Moon level+).

What do you think @Lina and @Everlasting?

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

While Hop thinks that they are extremely close, this was at a time when Palpatine was not at his peak, at least that's what we can infer.

Hop thinks Plagueis was only superior when it came to manipulating life and understanding what midichlorians and the Force had to do with eachother, or something like that. Never read his book, but from what the excerpts suggest, the writer is telling us that Sidious could not contend with him at the time, and had to kill him in a different method than most Sith Lords did.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Never read his book

Give it a read. It's good. One of my favourite Star Wars books in fact. Explains so much.

 

[SaiyanSage]

No he did not.

Right, that was Tenebrous' maxi-cholorians when Plageuis was performing the Midichlorian manipulation when his master was dying.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Right, that was Tenebrous' maxi-cholorians when Plageuis was performing the Midichlorian manipulation when his master was dying.

Plagueis was not messing around with Midichlorians when his master was dying. He was getting his butt out of that cave as fast as he could and nothing else. Tenebrous was up to something though (most likely Essence Transfer) and slipped into Plagueis's body. But then he had visions of Plagueis himself dying and Palpatine's hands and visions of Anakin and dies disappointed.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Plagueis was not messing around with Midichlorians when his master was dying. He was getting his butt out of that cave as fast as he could and nothing else. Tenebrous was up to something though (most likely Essence Transfer) and slipped into Plagueis's body. But then he had visions of Plagueis himself dying and Palpatine's hands and visions of Anakin and dies disappointed.

The book then cuts back 35 years, as Darth Plagueis and his Master Darth Tenebrous arrive on the world of Bal'demnic to examine its cortosis supply, which is being mined unbeknownst to either the Republic or the Jedi Order. Tenebrous plans to take advantage of the cortosis' natural resistance to lightsaber blades for his future attempts to overthrow the Jedi and replace the Republic with an empire ruled by the Sith. During the examination, the mining probe droid begins digging at a pocket of explosive lethane next to a cortosis deposit against orders, leading Tenebrous and Plagueis to rush back to their ship and escape the resulting explosion. The explosion occurs before they make it back to their ship, though Tenebrous was able to use the Force to contain the explosion so it doesn't kill him or his apprentice, while Plagueis makes sure that their ship isn't destroyed by the impact of the blast. In the process, Tenebrous is severely wearied, and Plagueis finds himself with the opportunity to end his Master's life and take on the role of Sith Master. He uses the Force to hurl falling debris on top of his Master and inflict a mortal wound, attempting to make it look natural as he rushes to his master's side. However, he cannot resist revealing to Tenebrous how he died, and what it means for the future of the Sith. The Muun tells his Bith Master that he will put an end to the old order of the Rule of Two before breaking Tenebrous's neck and observing his dying body through the Force in an attempt to manipulate midi-chlorians. However, Tenebrous dies before Plagueis is even able to at least prolong his Master's life for the sake of his experimentation.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ I guess I stand corrected.

 

[Lina_Shields]

This brings us to the question. How strong was Darth Sidious at the time of TPM/when Plagueis was still alive?

Palpatine couldn't have been that much weaker in TPM compared to his counterpart in RotS. Plagueis would also scale as well since Plagueis and Palpatine are comparable to each other at the time.

This scaling would not apply to Tenebrous, as there was a 35-year gap between Tenebrous' death and the period of TPM (which gives plenty of time for Plagueis to improve upon his Force abilities).

 

[Qawsedf234]

> How strong was Darth Sidious at the time of TPM/when Plagueis was still alive?


It's really unknown, however, after TPM there are like ten different statements that are all about how Sidious was the strongest Rule of Two Sith and the strongest Sith in general. His abilities are also universally better, like having Sith Rituals effect things on the galactic level , force lightning that can bend lightsabers/over power Vaapad, he's generally faster, etc.


> Palpatine couldn't have been that much weaker in TPM compared to his counterpart in RotS. Plagueis would also scale as well since Plagueis and Palpatine are comparable to each other at the time.


I know that speed wise TPM Sidious was FTE to TPM Darth Maul.

 

[SaiyanSage]

^ I guess I stand corrected.

Taken from the plot summary of the novel from Wookiepedia, forgot to mention that part. In the novel and audiobook, Plagueis only does the midi-chlorian attempt for a short time with his master then it cuts to Plageuis trying to figure a way out.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Agreed, so essentially we seem to agree that Plageuis and TPM Palpatine are at 5-C (scaling from Vitiate Post-Ritual) to possible 5-B (Small Planet since for the next thirteen years Palpatine is Supreme Chancellor and marked from the numerous statements from ROTS that Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord of all time; plus the Rule of Two should apply to Plageuis in the same light).

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Please stop quoting walls of text with more than three lines. This is because it makes the thread look all cluttered. Do what I did here and leave the "This Member wrote" bit and delete the rest. Or you can just type out "@Member Name" while writing a response.