Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends

[Js250476]

...

Well didn't see that coming lmao

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Yeah the Ewoks cartoon is def canon to Legends, Some of the characters appeared in later legends storylines and everything.


Also the Dulok are literally the Grinch.

 

[Hellbeast1]

From what I remember Nghtsisters were considered weaker then Sith (Except for Talzin, so Ity's likely this does in fact scale to top tier force users)

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

the sisters were barely beating driods. they should be comparable to strong clone troopers tho.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Also according to Bruce the Batman there's some other stuff we can use to upgrade Vader

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i left a 'bit' of feats and statements on vader and anakin (legends) above. dueling only

 

[BruceTheBatman]

From what I remember Nghtsisters were considered weaker then Sith (Except for Talzin, so Ity's likely this does in fact scale to top tier force users)

Don't forget Gethzerion

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There's another stuff for Legends that is much more major and would frankly need its own thread.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

@matt my man, i can help. do u ask if u need some stuff. ive been doing some intense reading for the last few days.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Also, frankly whether Anakin and Vader are stronger than either one is up for debate. There's plenty of Legends material and writer statements indicating that Anakin would beat Vader, such as one statement by Nick Gillard saying that Vader never matched Anakin again. It also frankly matches Sidious' attitude towards Vader throughout life.

But that's for another thread I need to cook up some time.


@Matt Brief summary?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

well, vader does have more feats, and he has also beaten characters that anakin couldnt, so...

 

[BruceTheBatman]

No he hasn't. Anakin force pushing Dooku in the ROTS comic is a better force feat than any feat Vader has except killing Sidious, and let's not go there. Anakin beating Dooku is also a better feat than Vader's best dueling feat which is stalemating Ben Kenobi.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

of course, but its not like there were dooku lvl people out there for vader to fight agasint, now, were there? who is to say that vader wouldnt have won with more ease? and he has beaten old man obi wan, who is> to mustafar obi wan

 

[BruceTheBatman]

from the Top of my head.
Yoda

Sidious

Windu

Luke Skywalker

Ben Kenobi

Rebel Era Maul

Adult Ahsoka

Scale

I would also add Dooku, PT Kenobi, TCW Maul (he's actually stronger than Rebels Maul logically speaking, given he's effectively wasted away after the death of Talzin and Savage Opress), Mother Talzin, Anakin and Quinlan Vos

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

yeah, i told them to add dooku as well, but rebels maul is stronger than any other maul

 

[BruceTheBatman]

of course, but its not like there were dooku lvl people out there for vader to fight agasint, now, were there? who is to say that vader wouldnt have won with more ease? and he has beaten old man obi wan, who is> to mustafar obi wa

He didn't beat Kenobi. The fight was a stalemate and Kenobi just gave up in order to become a force ghost. Also, Mustafar Anakin was heavily hampered in Legends, fighting while distressed, sleep deprived and hungry in the ROTS Novel, though in canon I'm not sure if it's the case

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

actually, in the novel, kenobi (or the narrator, i forgot) kinda states that he cant win, so there's that. and u really wanna say that anakin had some sleep problems when vader cant breathe right, feels literal constant pain, and cant even sleep properly, ever since the incident?

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Yes but for Vader that's a strength given he draws off said pain to fuel the dark side

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

yes and no. u know sion? darth sion? he is a worst case sceneraio of vader if u will. the guy literally died, decomposed, and was brough back to life by the force multiple times. have u seen his body?

 

[BruceTheBatman]

I have played KOTOR 2, Yes.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

good. and ps, only the pain and irritation worked in his favour, none of the other things did. he couldnt lift his arms above his shoulders, could turn off the noise of his breather, had to make constant repairs to his circuits and machinery, and was always and forever sweating because of his fake skin, along with the smell it created. none of these were an advantage. did i mention his weakness to eletricity

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Speaking of content, a minor thing

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2576648

Yoda having "limited stamina" in legends is something I find rather questionable.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i mean, he himself said that he got tired just from dooku a few times, so yeah

 

[Soldier_Blue]

nope it's literally stated that Anakin is superior in Lords of the Sith

That was 14 BBY Vader. That was long before his prime.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Yes, this cartoon series and the Droids series are 100% canon to the Legends continuity.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Impressive. Most Impressive.

I will respond to this when I'm feeling better.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

lol

 

[Soldier_Blue]

If more knowledgeable staff members and/or calc group members can agree to Magnitude 6 in this thread, then we're looking at the following potential upgrades for the Imperial-class Star Destroyer and all other capital ships that scale to that line:

At least mid-end High 6-B deflector shield output (consistent with Curtis Saxton's outrageous figures of ISD hypermatter reactor outputs being in the ballpark of a few Yottajoules).

At least Low 6-B (per shot) HTL yield (for an all batteries barrage yield in the mid-end of High 6-B). This would help make sense out of how three ISDs can potentially wreck a planet's surface in only a few hours (in both Canon and Legends).

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

hmm, if we do get those upgrades, then we could also bring up a few characters that have similar power to them

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Wall of text

No Mother Talzin sure but im against it scaling to Anakin at all, Canon Vader >>>>>>Anakin, Rebels Maul is stronger than TCW Maul via feats and the same with Ben kenobi, Only Windu and Yoda should scale from Vader

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

That was 14 BBY Vader. That was long before his prime.

Your right I forgot that in everything you need to Know star wars canon book, Darth Vader is currently the best darkside Duelist in Star Wars

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Side note on Momin, in the past he was able to create a Force Engine capable of burning an entire city to ash and he would use his powers on the weapon as it was being fired to freeze its destruction and the entire city in time, leaving everyone there in a state of petrified terror for all eternity. However, the Jedi intervened and he failed in his goal, losing concentration of the power he was manipulating and accidentally just vaporizing the city in the process. He would have succeeded otherwise, though.

Momin's Force Engine is no doubt a city buster. Yes, Momin was going to use his own Force power to essentially create a life-sized freeze-frame of the city being reduced to ash. This is without a doubt a solid Tier 7 feat. Momin should be 7-B as he would have used his own Force power (as he so clerly describes) to freeze the destruction of the city at a moment in time of his choosing.

Worth nothing that Vader is admittedly far more powerful than Momin ever was, by his own admissio, and an exhausted, gravely wounded Vader managed to defeat and kill a revived Momi in his youthful prime.

Momin only managed to pressure an already exhausted Vader. And Vader still managed to overwhelm him with telekinesis alone.

Vader >> Momin

Either would be good as a conservative estimate since they weren't throughout the whole surface of the planet. High 6-C for Top Tiers in Canon sounds great.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can upgrade Canon Force users to Tier 6 just yet.

Palpatine explicitly explains in the first arc (where Vader has to bleed his own Sith lightsaber crystal) that the Mustafar Sith cave is a Force Locus (the Canon version of the Force Nexus concept from Legends) and that Vader needs to combine its energies with his own and then do what he needs to do.

Here

Simply put: Vader is not causing the devastation across Mustafar via his own power. It was through the Dark Side Force Locus. We haven't seen anything remotely on that level via his own power. Hell, he needed the Force Locus just to do this (albeit he was exhausted).

We don't know just what kind of amp a Force Locus gives a user and what kind of energies are channelled as a whole through a Locus. But it is obviously a huge amp and huge quantity of Force energies as observed in the first arc and this final arc.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Snip

I find it weird that Vader is ranked above someone who is equal to Yoda and is more than capable of stomping beasts like Maul + Savage both at once.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

unintentional Skill creep perhaps

 

[Ssr4vegito]

I heard somewhere that Lucas wanted to have Vader summon a force storm after knowing of Padme's death but scrapped it

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

so are we considering High 7-A an outlier or?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not anymore given Vader does a much higher feat.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

so are we considering High 7-A an outlier or?

Not sure on that one. 7-B seems legit though. Given that the High 7-C shit for the giants of living stone are from them merely standing and walking and even merely talking, 7-B high and top tiers is not really a stretch.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

7-B is legit, and the giants of living stone can deflect meteors by talking which I believe would be a 7-A feat. So High 7-A upgrades at least should go through.