Standards for Immeasurable Speed

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Antvasima

I am 100% fine with the compromise that you, Sera and DontTalk are okay with.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

So, are you fine with it as well TLT1 and LordXcano?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Well, as I mentioned earlier, would stating that immeasurable speed simply means transcending linear time be an acceptable compromise for everybody involved, or is it a bad idea?
Also, is Sera correct in that 2-dimensional time is not a concept used within science?

I obviously agree with the linear time thing. OFC you need to be at the very least beyond linear time to be immeasureable in speed. The additional point was with more time dimensiions, the concept of "speed" gets greater and greater.

Also, sorry for being inactive in the last day or so

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

We are leaving the speed for Tier 11 as it is now, although it is possible to calculate the speed for lower-dimensional characters, correct?

Obviously, it is possible, any entity by defaut has 1 time dimension (unless stated otherwise) and the same goes for 1-space and 2-space beings.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that I should change the speed definition then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now done so.

However, our definition for Omnipresence likely also need an adjustment in conjunction. It currently reads:

"This is technically a state of being, rather than a speed. For practical considerations, higher-dimensional omnipresence of a certain plane of existence is superior to the immeasurable speed gained from existing on the same level. Similarly, immeasurable speed associated with a higher plane is superior to the omnipresence of a lower-dimensional entity. However, each case requires more detailed consideration."

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Speed#Other

Does anybody have better suggestions?

 

[Antvasima]

To start with, I edited away the outdated parts:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Speed&diff=1191975&oldid=1191313

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Looks good, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Looks good

 

[Lina_Shields]

Explanation is acceptable, based on what was discussed in the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that it might be time to close this thread then.

However, somebody should probably start a new topic regarding if any of the characters previously listed at immeasurable speed need to be adjusted.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Are we going to wait for Kavpeny, or is this settled?

The results of this thread/summary will be sent in any case.

 

[Antvasima]

Kavpeny does not seem to have the time to reply here, but told me that he was glad that we reached the "Character that transcend linear time" compromise.

We likely still need a content revision or staff forum thread regarding if any characters with immeasurable speed need to be adjusted though.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I am not satisfied with the fact that we never covered issues regarding characters that are able to move backwards/forwards in time via speed alone.

For example, wasn't the Flash's speed rated Immeasurable a couple months ago or something? What was the exact reasoning for that Immeasurable rating?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he is able to run to the past or to the future, but he is apparently not able to use this for practical combat purposes.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I will ask DarkLK about this.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Well, he is able to run to the past or to the future, but he is apparently not able to use this for practical combat purposes.

An interesting reason for Immeasurable speed, although understandable considering that the distance between two different points in time cannot be measured via unit for distance [in meters].

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked DarkLK in this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

DarkLK says that running backwards or forwards in time qualifies as Immeasurable speed, similarly to a hyperjump.

However, given that the Flash can apparently not use this for practical combat purposes, I think that he should have two separate speed ratings.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Is there a name for the technique that the Flash specifically uses to move forwards/backwards in time? If so, we can label Flash's speed as:

• Massively FTL+, Immeasurable via Time Travel

Although this should be considered a special case considering that the whole time travel feat was never shown to transcend linear time.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps I should also add "This includes characters that can move backwards and forwards in time via speed alone" to the Immeasurable definition in the Speed page?

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am fine with your Flash suggestion.

 

[Sera_EX]

I'd like to answer Ven's original question of "can a lower-dimensional being have immeasurable speed."

The answer is yes and no.

If this is our immeasurable speed. Yes.

If this is ACF's immeasurable speed for 1-A characters and above, which on our wiki is called "irrelevant". No.

Considering Ven is from Vi Powerlisting, where there is no irrelevant speed, the term is still immeasurable like ACF, I suppose that's where he got confused.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Antvasima

I'm 100% sure about that part, since several fictions treat FTL speeds as being sufficient for moving backwards in time (i.e. the Powerpuff Girls).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

However, if DarkLK says that moving through time by speed is technically to transcend linear time, we might be able to use extra, independent, speed ratings for characters that display the ability.

 

[Lina_Shields]

We can work with the above suggestion, yes. The characters that display this ability are few and far in between, however.

So it's just an extra addition to the rule.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have added a new note to the speed page:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Speed&diff=1193933&oldid=1191975

 

[Lina_Shields]

The addition to the speed page looks good.

Now then, what do we do with the characters that are lower-dimensional? Their movement speeds can be measured in the standard unit for distance, as we can perceive their movements in their respective 1-D and 2-D planes.

Example: A square moving at 20m/s across a 2-Dimensinal plane can still be measured as 20m/s via measurement.

 

[Antvasima]

1-Dimensional and 2-Dimensional characters can still have their speeds measured, yes.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Yes. Speed is distance and time. Even if they are lower dimensional, if there's a way to discern distance and time, then one can make a reasonable speed calculation.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@DodoNova2: Asking above question again, although if an attack spreads across the entirety of space-time [meaning attack expands throughout all points in time], would that be classified as Immeasurable for the same reason that Flash's time travel is via passing through different points in space-time?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that qualifies as immeasurable attack speed, yes, but I would prefer more input

 

[Reppuzan]

@Lina

Not sure about this one. Goetia roasted humanity in past, present, and future with Ars Almadel Salomonis, but I don't know if this would qualify as Immeasurable attack speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps we should treat such instances as outliers unless backed up by general portrayal in the stories?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Antvasima

I mean, it's literally his first move. So I don't know if we can call it an outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Not sure about this one. Goetia roasted humanity in past, present, and future with Ars Almadel Salomonis, but I don't know if this would qualify as Immeasurable attack speed.

One would think that launching an attack from present time to a different point in time cannot be measured in terms of numbers.

 

[Promestein]

Seems difficult to quantify, especially when a lot of characters do so with attacks that aren't really much faster than any of their other ones, just that they strike the opponent at multiple points in time once they hit.