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Staff Discussion rule addition (noncontroversial)

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ImmortalDread

Call me Dread
He/Him
VS Battles
Retired
18,393
14,323

Introduction​


Thanks to @Deagonx, I realized that I forgot to include an important rule in the discussion rules page regarding staff discussions.

While the existing rules are acceptable, I would like to propose an additional rule that aims to prevent any misunderstandings within the community, particularly among the staff members.

Each staff member's input will be valued and given appropriate weight, depending on the subject matter of the discussion thread. For instance, if a staff thread pertains to calculations, the staff member specialized in calculations will have more influence compared to a thread moderator, as their expertise lies in that specific area. If the staff thread is solely for content revision, exceptions can be considered, as the only distinction between the two threads is the presence of strict moderation. In such cases, the rules applicable to the content revision guidelines will be followed for that thread.

Draft​

Every staff member's input will be taken into consideration, with the level of influence determined by their expertise in the specific field of the thread. This ensures that staff members who have relevant knowledge and expertise in a particular subject are given more weight in the decision-making process, aligning the contributions with their areas of specialization.
  • In wiki policy revision threads, bureaucrats have both voting and veto rights. Administrators also have voting rights, and all staff members are welcome to comment in these threads, regardless of whether they have evaluation rights or not

  • For changes that have a significant impact on the entire wiki, additional safeguards are in place. Only the most trusted and experienced staff members will evaluate the proposed courses of action. Please note that this version incorporates the Ancient Rome-style universal veto, which allows any single staff member (Bureaucrat) with veto power to block a proposed decision, even if it has the support of the majority.

  • In the case of wiki policies concerning calculation instruction pages, calculation group members also have voting power, in addition to the voting and veto rights of bureaucrats and administrators.
If you have any additional suggestions or if you identify any flaws in the draft, it can still be modified or altered accordingly.

For visitors
  • Regular members may not comment on staff discussion threads marked as “Restricted solely for staff members” under any circumstances, as such discussions cover sensitive wiki policy issues and other similar crucial matters that require great caution.

Restricted solely for staff members;
Ideally, input from staff members across various fields is preferred;
 
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Calc Group members already have evaluation rights regarding calculation-related topics. I was not aware of that we had not made that official yet, so if you strictly write a draft for a rule text for that it is obviously fine.

However, suddenly giving any image helpers, translation helpers, and otherwise evaluation rights for all of the verses that they personally enjoy is not fine, so any potential ambiguity in that regard needs to be wiped away from your draft text.
 
However, suddenly giving any image helpers, translation helpers, and otherwise evaluation rights for all of the verses that they personally enjoy is not fine, so any potential ambiguity in that regard needs to be wiped away from your draft text.
This ensures that staff members who have relevant knowledge and expertise in a particular subject are given more weight in the decision-making process, aligning the contributions with their areas of specialization
The last sentence make it very clear.
 
I think that it makes it sound like any staff members without evaluation rights are allowed to determine the outcomes of threads for verses that they are knowledgeable about. It is better to be more specific and clear in the used language.
 
Wait, let me understand:

Are you proposing that the votes of staff members from different fields should not be given same weightage in staff discussions? (Of course, this would depend on the topic being discussed and the expertise needed for that particular discussion, such as in a calculation staff thread where the opinion of a CGM would hold more value than that of a thread moderator)

Because as far as I am aware, evaluation rights is only for content revision, we never included staff discussion into it.
 
Oh. My mistake then. I thought that you were talking about content revision threads in general.

As for wiki policy revision threads, only bureaucrats and administrators have voting rights in them, and only bureaucrats have veto rights, but all staff members are usually free to comment in them.

However, if those wiki policies concern our calculation instruction pages, I think that calc group members also have voting power.
 
As for wiki policy revision threads, only bureaucrats and administrators have voting rights in them, and only bureaucrats have veto rights, but all staff members are usually free to comment in them.
We may need to make that more clear on the pages for staff responsibilities, as each page for the different types of staff includes this:

Staff member: They are part of the managing staff, and as such can take part in staff discussions. In other words, members have the opportunity to directly discuss the future direction of the site, and their opinions will be taken into consideration when creating/modifying site policies.

There's no clear delineation that only Admins and up can actually vote, and it isn't generally treated that way from what I've seen.
 
We may need to make that more clear on the pages for staff responsibilities, as each page for the different types of staff includes this:

Staff member: They are part of the managing staff, and as such can take part in staff discussions. In other words, members have the opportunity to directly discuss the future direction of the site, and their opinions will be taken into consideration when creating/modifying site policies.

There's no clear delineation that only Admins and up can actually vote, and it isn't generally treated that way from what I've seen.
Well, their views will be taken into consideration, but we do have extra safeguards for changes that actually affect our entire wiki, so only the most trusted and experienced staff members are allowed to evaluate the hopefully best courses of action.
 
Thank you for helping out. 🙏

Please inspect our existing rules to see which parts that are already mentioned there though.
I updated my draft. Also, there are no duplications as far as I am not mistaken.
We may need to make that more clear on the pages for staff responsibilities, as each page for the different types of staff includes this:

Staff member: They are part of the managing staff, and as such can take part in staff discussions. In other words, members have the opportunity to directly discuss the future direction of the site, and their opinions will be taken into consideration when creating/modifying site policies.

There's no clear delineation that only Admins and up can actually vote, and it isn't generally treated that way from what I've seen.
This is the reason why I added the first line, we do consider each staff member's input and stance, but also the outcome will be determined by those who has the most relevance and expertise to the topic. For example
  • If the topic is about design ---> content moderator and image helper have more say
  • If the topic is "content revision" but under strict moderation ---> thread moderator
  • If the topic is about calculation ---> CGM have more say than any other (excluding higher staff-ranks obviously)
  • If the topic is about translations ----> translator help will have more say due to their experience and expertise
  • If the topic is about formatting -----> content moderator have more say
Obviously, I need to say, Adminstrator and beru on those topics have more say in all of those examples. (And Beru has veto rights)
 
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I am afraid that I do not think that the draft in the first post of this thread seems sufficiently well-considered to support yet. My apologies.
 
Well, you should preferably make it strictly adhere to what I mentioned earlier, without any far-reaching other additions.

Our content moderators are almost always promoted because they are willing to help out with wiki edit patrolling and/or cleanup work, and our image helpers are promoted because they are able and willing to clean up or design images. That is not automatically related to revision discussion evaluation as far as I am aware.
 
Well, you should preferably make it strictly adhere to what I mentioned earlier, without any far-reaching other additions.

Our content moderators are almost always promoted because they are willing to help out with wiki edit patrolling and/or cleanup work, and our image helpers are promoted because they are able and willing to clean up or design images. That is not automatically related to revision discussion evaluation as far as I am aware.
You got a good point, then.

I will edit the draft.
 
Could you please be so kind as to notify the staff members that I have made updates to the draft?
Okay. No problem. I think that your current draft mostly looks good. Thank you very much for helping out. 🙂🙏

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale

Are you willing to help out here please?
 
This question is indeed thought-provoking, and while I personally lean towards the former interpretation, I am unable to provide a definitive answer. It would be best to direct this question to the Bureaucrats who are better equipped to respond.
 
Bureaucrats have already consistently had the right to veto wiki policy revisions as a final safeguard for our wiki for many years. We just use it extremely seldom. This would just put it down in writing.
 
Should I add a note to the draft to make it understandable?
  • For changes that have a significant impact on the entire wiki, additional safeguards are in place. Only the most trusted and experienced staff members will evaluate the proposed courses of action. Please note that this version incorporates the Ancient Rome-style universal veto, which allows any single staff member (Bureaucrat) with veto power to block a proposed decision, even if it has the support of the majority.
 
Seems majority accepted it without any opposition. We should probably add the rules (but please, if you don't mind, I will add it or Butler to not mess up the page)
 
Draft

Every staff member's input will be taken into consideration, with the level of influence determined by their expertise in the specific field of the thread. This ensures that staff members who have relevant knowledge and expertise in a particular subject are given more weight in the decision-making process, aligning the contributions with their areas of specialization.
  • In wiki policy revision threads, bureaucrats have both voting and veto rights. Administrators also have voting rights, and all staff members are welcome to comment in these threads, regardless of whether they have evaluation rights or not

  • For changes that have a significant impact on the entire wiki, additional safeguards are in place. Only the most trusted and experienced staff members will evaluate the proposed courses of action. Please note that this version incorporates the Ancient Rome-style universal veto, which allows any single staff member (Bureaucrat) with veto power to block a proposed decision, even if it has the support of the majority.

  • In the case of wiki policies concerning calculation instruction pages, calculation group members also have voting power, in addition to the voting and veto rights of bureaucrats and administrators.
This is the updated draft, correct?
 

Looks good?
 
Given that the previous wording seems to have given rise to misunderstandings, I want to make the following slight addition highlighted in bold text below that attempts to clarify the first sentence of the regulation text below. I would greatly appreciate support from our administrators in this regard.
  • In wiki policy revision threads, bureaucrats have both voting and veto rights. Administrators also have voting rights, and all staff members are welcome to comment in these threads, regardless of whether they have evaluation rights or not.
  • For changes that have a significant impact on the entire wiki, and/or concern official policy issues, additional safeguards are in place. Only the most trusted and experienced staff members will evaluate the proposed courses of action. Please note that this version incorporates a universal veto, which allows any single staff member (bureaucrat) with veto power to block a proposed decision, even if it has the support of the majority.
Policy changes was obviously intended to refer to our official wiki rule pages, not grant exceptions to a few of them.

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale
 
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