((SPOILERS)) Deltarune Chapter 2 Upgrades/Additions

[Deleted member 16409]

no he didn't, it was an assumption but in the end he said he was not [[BIG]] enough after getting the power of Neo to gain his freedom and needed Kris' soul and on the otherhand jevil already gained his Freedom and is content with it.

At least, his power is comparable via having Dark Crystall which making Darkner VERY buffed.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

He survived something what's one shots any darkner, so at least minor or limited

He didn't survive??????????????????????????????

I mean, Magic doin much more damage than physical attacks against Spamton Bluelight special making Kris do only 10 damage by fight, but making Noelle doin insane Damage

This is one instance where Noelle appears out of nowhere. Everywhere else, magic is calculated the same way physical attacks are, and defense takes both into consideration

 

[GodlyCharmander]

PuppetScarf is Spamton itself, so Spamton alive or Spamton in coma. I don't think Toby will make second variant, he kinda lazy and won't make that hard thingy. And PuppetScarf can talk according to special dialogue if your inventory would be full at Spamton NEO fight

You... don't get PuppetScarf in Snowgrave

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Spamton never even fights Noelle aside from the end of the Snowgrave Route where he is instantly frozen by Ice Shock

He didn't survive??????????????????????????????

he survives, Fun Gang dialogue with PuppetScarf not even changes, and some dialogue shows that it can talk

 

[Deleted member 16409]

You... don't get PuppetScarf in Snowgrave

So why I got it in my Snowgrave route?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So why I got it in my Snowgrave route?

My mistake, I thought you'd get Dealmaker. Either way, Spamton gets one-shot by it, so he does not scale.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

At least, his power is comparable via having Dark Crystall which making Darkner VERY buffed.

since when?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

My mistake, I thought you'd get Dealmaker. Either way, Spamton gets one-shot by it, so he does not scale.

so what about Immortality type 2&4 to NEO?
Type 2 and 4 cause Spamton NEO in unused attacks can be torn apart, but he kinda OK. and in Fight and Snowgrave route Spamton easily tanks NEO body destroying and transform into weapon or just BASE

 

[Deleted member 16409]

since when?

Since Seam talking, and achieving Dark Crystal only from Jevil and Spamton

 

[GodlyCharmander]

so what about Immortality type 2&4 to NEO?
Type 2 and 4 cause Spamton NEO in unused attacks can be torn apart, but he kinda OK. and in Fight and Snowgrave route Spamton easily tanks NEO body destroying and transform into weapon or just BASE

It it's unused, we're not supposed to use it.

And that's not immortality, he just got defeated and turned into an item.

 

[Imaginym]

Also, no, the Defense Stat treats magic and physical attacks the exact same way, as proved by Abandoned Snowgrave Berdly's fight.

There is actually something I had meant to bring up.

Stats

Stats are numerical properties of party members and enemies. Stats affect various aspects of encounters, such as the amount of damage dealt, the amount of damage taken, and the effectiveness of Spells. The Deltarune stat system is very similar to the system in Undertale, being directly derived...

deltarune.fandom.com

• Noelle's SnowGrave spell inflicts Magic × 40 + 600 + random(0 to 100) damage.
• Noelle's IceShock spell inflicts (Magic - 10) × 30 + 90 + random(0 to 10) damage.

Also, earlier in this thread, you said:

I already proved IceShock is dependent on Defense

This is not Pokémon (unfortunately), Defense stat works for both physical and magical attacks.

"By telling Noelle to concentrate around 10 times, and glaring at Berdly enough times, it's possible to make IceShock deal tremendous damage."
From the description of that video.

From what I've researched, Glare only affects DEF (-5 DEF per use.), & IceShock & SnowGrave literally do not care about the target's DEF, as you can tell from their damage formulas.
Meanwhile, Wake, which they did 10 times, is +3 MAG. So +30 MAG.
Considering the video author shows us Noelle has a Magic Stat of 29 (Makes sense; SnowGrave Route & IceShock was cast with the Thorn Ring on.), that's with +30.
59 - 10 = 49
49 * 30 = 1,470.
1,470 + 90 = 1,560.
Plus a random number from 0 to 10, & since she dealt 1,569 damage, Noelle's damage very clearly lines up with MAGIC being the only stat accounted for in IceShock, NOT Defense; The author of that video said in the description they'd Glared several times, so if Berdly's then lowered DEF were a factor, the damage wouldn't be what it was!


So yeah. Glare, which statedly reduces DEFENSE in its description after use, does NOT affect IceShock nor SnowGrave's damage. These Spells do not care about Defense. (Rude Buster & Red Buster, however, do.)

 

[Deleted member 16409]

It it's unused, we're not supposed to use it.

And that's not immortality, he just got defeated and turned into an item.

ok, what about VERY LIMITED Immortality TYPE 4 by turning into ITEM?
but we still didn't talked about electricity Manipulation resistance and Large Size type1 or 2

 

[Deleted member 16409]

There is actually something I had meant to bring up.

Stats

Stats are numerical properties of party members and enemies. Stats affect various aspects of encounters, such as the amount of damage dealt, the amount of damage taken, and the effectiveness of Spells. The Deltarune stat system is very similar to the system in Undertale, being directly derived...

deltarune.fandom.com

• Noelle's SnowGrave spell inflicts Magic × 40 + 600 + random(0 to 100) damage.
• Noelle's IceShock spell inflicts (Magic - 10) × 30 + 90 + random(0 to 10) damage.

Also, earlier in this thread, you said:

"By telling Noelle to concentrate around 10 times, and glaring at Berdly enough times, it's possible to make IceShock deal tremendous damage."
From the description of that video.

From what I've researched, Glare only affects DEF (-5 DEF per use.), & IceShock & SnowGrave literally do not care about the target's DEF, as you can tell from their damage formulas.
Meanwhile, Wake, which they did 10 times, is +3 MAG. So +30 MAG.
Considering the video author shows us Noelle has a Magic Stat of 29 (Makes sense; SnowGrave Route & IceShock was cast with the Thorn Ring on.), that's with +30.
59 - 10 = 49
49 * 30 = 1,470.
1,470 + 90 = 1,560.
Plus a random number from 0 to 10, & since she dealt 1,569 damage, Noelle's damage very clearly lines up with MAGIC being the only stat accounted for in IceShock, NOT Defense; The author of that video said in the description they'd Glared several times, so if Berdly's then lowered DEF were a factor, the damage wouldn't be what it was!


So yeah. Glare, which statedly reduces DEFENSE in its description after use, does NOT affect IceShock nor SnowGrave's damage. These Spells do not care about Defense. (Rude Buster & Red Buster, however, do.)

So Deltarune MAGIC BUFFED? This magic don't need to affect soul, this magic just bypassing physical defence then, so that mean that if magic strikes physical body it will make insane damage regardless of what body and how its durabled physically?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"By telling Noelle to concentrate around 10 times, and glaring at Berdly enough times, it's possible to make IceShock deal tremendous damage."
From the description of that video.

From what I've researched, Glare only affects DEF (-5 DEF per use.), & IceShock & SnowGrave literally do not care about the target's DEF, as you can tell from their damage formulas.
Meanwhile, Wake, which they did 10 times, is +3 MAG. So +30 MAG.
Considering the video author shows us Noelle has a Magic Stat of 29 (Makes sense; SnowGrave Route & IceShock was cast with the Thorn Ring on.), that's with +30.
59 - 10 = 49
49 * 30 = 1,470.
1,470 + 90 = 1,560.
Plus a random number from 0 to 10, & since she dealt 1,569 damage, Noelle's damage very clearly lines up with MAGIC being the only stat accounted for in IceShock, NOT Defense; The author of that video said in the description they'd Glared several times, so if Berdly's then lowered DEF were a factor, the damage wouldn't be what it was!

I will look into it by just glaring at Berdly in my Snowgrave Route Save File. If it's still doesn't one shot, or increases in damage, then I concede

 

[Livinmeme]

So a pratically instant kill soul atack neat

 

[Imaginym]

So Deltarune MAGIC BUFFED? This magic don't need to affect soul, this magic just bypassing physical defence then, so that mean that if magic strikes physical body it will make insane damage regardless of what body and how its durabled physically?

This is not true of all Magic.
Susie's Buster Spells, unlike Noelle's Ice Spells, do account for Defense.

& if Darkners are using Magic (As opposed to non-Magical Soul Manipulation; I'm unsure if we have hard evidence that Darkners are made of/using Magic like Undertale Monsters, & since Toby Fox has said Deltarune is not the world of Undertale, we can't assume the same rules.), then theirs doesn't account for DEF.

I will look into it by just glaring at Berdly in my Snowgrave Route Save File. If it's still doesn't one shot, or increases in damage, then I concede

Good luck. It may be worthwhile to note Noelle's stats & equipment immediately before you start the battle, as well as how much damage was dealt.

(Also, a one-shot that requires 10 turns spent on WAKE & at least a couple more on Glare isn't the most impressive means of one-shotting, since, even if you ignore the game's values of each WAKE being +3 Magic, one-shotting after 10 uses of WAKE means one-shotting... after being boosted 10 times. But I guess folks are already aware of that, lol.)

 

[Deleted member 16409]

There is actually something I had meant to bring up.

Stats

Stats are numerical properties of party members and enemies. Stats affect various aspects of encounters, such as the amount of damage dealt, the amount of damage taken, and the effectiveness of Spells. The Deltarune stat system is very similar to the system in Undertale, being directly derived...

deltarune.fandom.com

• Noelle's SnowGrave spell inflicts Magic × 40 + 600 + random(0 to 100) damage.
• Noelle's IceShock spell inflicts (Magic - 10) × 30 + 90 + random(0 to 10) damage.

Also, earlier in this thread, you said:

"By telling Noelle to concentrate around 10 times, and glaring at Berdly enough times, it's possible to make IceShock deal tremendous damage."
From the description of that video.

From what I've researched, Glare only affects DEF (-5 DEF per use.), & IceShock & SnowGrave literally do not care about the target's DEF, as you can tell from their damage formulas.
Meanwhile, Wake, which they did 10 times, is +3 MAG. So +30 MAG.
Considering the video author shows us Noelle has a Magic Stat of 29 (Makes sense; SnowGrave Route & IceShock was cast with the Thorn Ring on.), that's with +30.
59 - 10 = 49
49 * 30 = 1,470.
1,470 + 90 = 1,560.
Plus a random number from 0 to 10, & since she dealt 1,569 damage, Noelle's damage very clearly lines up with MAGIC being the only stat accounted for in IceShock, NOT Defense; The author of that video said in the description they'd Glared several times, so if Berdly's then lowered DEF were a factor, the damage wouldn't be what it was!


So yeah. Glare, which statedly reduces DEFENSE in its description after use, does NOT affect IceShock nor SnowGrave's damage. These Spells do not care about Defense. (Rude Buster & Red Buster, however, do.)

Btw can we upgrade everyone with attack spells, they don't need TP for using that, it shows that TP isn't achievable outside fights, but Susie easily using that, btw make AIM bot to susie, because Rude Buster aims to enemy outside fight.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Spamton Neo literally dies/reduced to an item state to ice shock I’m pretty sure. Idk if we would count puppet scarf as anything other than transformation.

As for Jevil (And everyone else in Ch. 1) being comparable to Ch. 2 characters, is a VERY debatable and controversial thing to talk about. On one hand, Spamton statement “I’LL EVER SURPASS THAT DAMNED [Clown around town” is really vague and we can’t assume that he is talking about Jevil when he could literally be talking about anyone else. And just because Jevil holds a shadow crystal, doesn’t automatically make them comparable or more powerful than the next guy. Shadow crystal’s have only been said to be powerful when all formed together to create the “shadow mantel.” In a nutshell, if I had a shadow crystal, it doesn’t automatically make me a 9-A.

On the other hand, would it be possible to scale ch. 1 characters to ch. 2 characters since Kris and Ralsei fought Roulx Kaard who doesn’t seem to be any more or less powerful since ch. 1? Or am I just getting everything wrong lol?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Good luck. It may be worthwhile to note Noelle's stats & equipment immediately before you start the battle.

(Also, a one-shot that requires 10 turns spent on WAKE & at least a couple more on Glare isn't the most impressive means of one-shotting, since, even if you ignore the game's values of each WAKE being +3 Magic, one-shotting after 10 uses of WAKE means one-shotting... after being boosted 10 times. But I guess folks are already aware of that, lol.)

Will do. I will do the following:

• Use IceShock after just 10 uses of WAKE (No Glare), note the damage
• Reset, then Use IceShock after 10 uses of Glare (No WAKE), note the damage.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Spamton Neo literally dies/reduced to an item state to ice shock I’m pretty sure. Idk if we would count puppet scarf as anything other than transformation.

But Spamton easily tanks NEO body explosion and turns into BASE

As for Jevil (And everyone else in Ch. 1) being comparable to Ch. 2 characters, is a VERY debatable and controversial thing to talk about. On one hand, Spamton statement “I’LL EVER SURPASS THAT DAMNED [Clown around town” is really vague and we can’t assume that he is talking about Jevil when he could literally be talking about anyone else. And just because Jevil holds a shadow crystal, doesn’t automatically make them comparable or more powerful than the next guy. Shadow crystal’s have only been said to be powerful when all formed together to create the “shadow mantel.” In a nutshell, if I had a shadow crystal, it doesn’t automatically make me a 9-A.

ok, seems like only Darkners can use Shadow Crystal

 

[Imaginym]

Will do. I will do the following:

• Use IceShock after just 10 uses of WAKE (No Glare), note the damage
• Reset, then Use IceShock after 10 uses of Glare (No WAKE), note the damage.

Thanks a bunch. Sorry for any bother or trouble; I do quite appreciate your effort to find the results.
Considering what I've read from my sources, I'm very confident Glare only affects DEF, & the Ice Spells don't care about DEF.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Since Seam talking, and achieving Dark Crystal only from Jevil and Spamton

the specific statement?

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

But Spamton easily tanks NEO body explosion and turns into BASE

ok, seems like only Darkners can use Shadow Crystal

That’s fair, but instead of Spamton getting exploded by his NEO form, he is ice shocked by Noelle. For all we know Spamton could be frozen within his puppet scarf form.

I don’t remember Seam saying anything about shadow crystals increasing anyone’s strength regardless whether or not they are a darkner though I could be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

the specific statement?

idk

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Also could we possibly scale ch. 1 characters to ch. 2 characters due to Kris and Ralsei fighting Roulxs Kaard who doesn’t seem more or less powerful since ch. 1?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

That’s fair, but instead of Spamton getting exploded by his NEO form, he is ice shocked by Noelle. For all we know Spamton could be frozen within his puppet scarf form.

so, that's mean that Spamton alive or in coma? Btw PuppetScarf don't make specific new dialogue, there's no ice or snow on it

I don’t remember Seam saying anything about shadow crystals increasing anyone’s strength regardless whether or not they are a darkner though I could be wrong.

it's kinda logical, cause Dark Crystal means that the item was important for Lightner, NEO has it because it Mettaton dream

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Also could we possibly scale ch. 1 characters to ch. 2 characters due to Kris and Ralsei fighting Roulxs Kaard who doesn’t seem more or less powerful since ch. 1?

nah, he kinda more powerful cause he got an THRASH MACHINE

 

[Deleted member 16409]

nah, he kinda more powerful cause he got an THRASH MACHINE

btw upgrade Susie&Lancer intellect, they created Thrash Machine in less than 7 minutes.
And upgrade Rouxls intellect

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Thanks a bunch. Sorry for any bother or trouble; I do quite appreciate your effort to find the results.
Considering what I've read from my sources, I'm very confident Glare only affects DEF, & the Ice Spells don't care about DEF.

Hey, it's cool man. We're just trying to find the right anwser.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

But you can literally attack him during the fight. He literally says to stop attacking HIM.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

it's kinda logical, cause Dark Crystal means that the item was important for Lightner, NEO has it because it Mettaton dream

If I'm not wrong, Seam stated that if Darkner was important to Lightner, Darkner go Buff

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

btw upgrade Susie&Lancer intellect, they created Thrash Machine in less than 7 minutes.
And upgrade Rouxls intellect

I agree

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Btw can we make GAME MECHANIC CANON?

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Are you calling attacking Roulxs a game mechanic?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Are you calling attacking Roulxs a game mechanic?

Nah, just whole game mechanic Deltarune&Undertale

 

[Deleted member 16409]

btw upgrade Deltarune world to 2-C.
7 chapters, 3 saving.
7×3=21 timelines in Deltarune

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Nah, just whole game mechanic Deltarune&Undertale

Ah my bad man

 

[Deleted member 16409]

So, conclusion IS...
Spamton NEO Large Size type 1 or 2.
Dark crystal upgrades any Darkner very hardly
Spamton NEO Immortality type 4 limited
Spamton Base&Neo electricity Manipulation resistance

 

[Deleted member 16409]

So, conclusion IS...
Spamton NEO Large Size type 1 or 2.
Dark crystal upgrades any Darkner very hardly
Spamton NEO Immortality type 4 limited
Spamton Base&Neo electricity Manipulation resistance

And Lightners spell buffed to NEGATE ANY PHYSICAL DEFENCE?
Btw magical defence would suck against spells too, according to Queen shield

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

btw upgrade Deltarune world to 2-C.
7 chapters, 3 saving.
7×3=21 timelines in Deltarune

I don’t think Undertale rules =/= Deltarune rules on SAVE FILES. And Dark Worlds have only been said to be the size as cities I think as discussed and added earlier.