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Spider-man fights a very evil flower (0-7-0)GRACE

Y'all are voting Flowey, but the problem here is that... how exactly is Spidey bypassing SAVE and LOAD here exactly?

Incap through webs is not really helping, as Flowey can simply LOAD back.

Also Flowey can kinda of burrow underground, meaning he can indeed dodge the webs.

I smell a stomp here.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Y'all are voting Flowey, but the problem here is that... how exactly is Spidey bypassing SAVE and LOAD here exactly?

Incap through webs is not really helping, as Flowey can simply LOAD back.

Also Flowey can kinda of burrow underground, meaning he can indeed dodge the webs.

I smell a stomp here.
Click to expand...
Because of spideys precog it isnt a stomp since everytime flowey loads and save and whatnot and thinks he know what spidey is going to do next spidey will generally be able to sense an attack coming which would prolong the fight. And since i made it so the characters can give up if they get bored or lose the will to fight its possible for him to win like that. Its also likely that he would struggle alot with countering precog, especially given that flowey has stated that sans is a monster who he always had trouble beating which shows that things like instant reaction and precog are great counters to flowey. So its not really a stomp since its definitely possible for spidey to cause flowey to give up entirely.
 
King_Dom470 said:
Because of spideys precog it isnt a stomp since everytime flowey loads and save and whatnot and thinks he know what spidey is going to do next spidey will generally be able to sense an attack coming which would prolong the fight. And since i made it so the characters can give up if they get bored or lose the will to fight its possible for him to win like that. Its also likely that he would struggle alot with countering precog, especially given that flowey has stated that sans is a monster who he always had trouble beating which shows that things like instant reaction and precog are great counters to flowey. So its not really a stomp since its definitely possible for spidey to cause flowey to give up entirely.
Click to expand...
Your arguments would be valid if Flowey could never beat Sans, but he did, given the only monster he explicitly could never beat is Asgore, Sans was just the one who made him reset a lot. Meaning that while it's a problem, it's not something Flowey can't overcome.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Your arguments would be valid if Flowey could never beat Sans, but he did, given the only monster he explicitly could never beat is Asgore, Sans was just the one who made him reset a lot. Meaning that while it's a problem, it's not something Flowey can't overcome.
Click to expand...
True but the thing about sans is that you only ever hit him when he runs out of stamina since he has pretty low stamina its not hard to outlast him. Spidey on the other hand is much more agile/acrobatic has precognition and has superhuman stamina so flowey wouldnt be able to outlast him in terms of stam so Spidey could just keep dodging while flowey tries to land hits.
 
King_Dom470 said:
True but the thing about sans is that you only ever hit him when he runs out of stamina since he has pretty low stamina its not hard to outlast him. Spidey on the other hand is much more agile/acrobatic has precognition and has superhuman stamina so flowey wouldnt be able to outlast him in terms of stam so Spidey could just keep dodging while flowey tries to land hits.
Click to expand...
Issue here it's that Spiderman still can't win this, as Flowey will eventually memorize all that Spiderman can do and merk him.

It's how he defeated Sans, and it's not like Spiderman is so damn unpredictable that no one can read his movements or stuff, especially when Sans' whole thing is to destroy in max 2 full attacks enemies far stronger than him with dura neg stuff, but Spiderman not only is far weaker (Upscaling from 48,471,794.25 J vs Downscaling from 187,276,927.25 J, so Spiderman is still around x3.8 times weaker), but he does not have dura neg to deal with him, and Flowey can still use his small size combined with the stats advantage as a surprise effect.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Issue here it's that Spiderman still can't win this, as Flowey will eventually memorize all that Spiderman can do and merk him.

It's how he defeated Sans, and it's not like Spiderman is so damn unpredictable that no one can read his movements or stuff, especially when Sans' whole thing is to destroy in max 2 full attacks enemies far stronger than him with dura neg stuff, but Spiderman not only is far weaker (Upscaling from 48,471,794.25 J vs Downscaling from 187,276,927.25 J, so Spiderman is still around x3.8 times weaker), but he does not have dura neg to deal with him, and Flowey can still use his small size combined with the stats advantage as a surprise effect.
Click to expand...
Even given this i still wouldnt call this a stomp more like a decisive win because I still believe its he still has a chance to win no matter how small.

And its not that spidey is super unpredictable its more that spidey has ample time to react to attacks that flowey throws. Even when flowey tries to change something up hed be able to react long before the attack is even a danger to him.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Spider-Man's reaction speed.

It's only 9-A so the lightning doesn't meet the requirement to get MHS+.
Click to expand...
Thats not at all how it functions

An 8-C rating from lightning (such as being hit by it) doesn't apply if you were struck while grounded. Thats why a ton of people IRL have been struck by lightning and live to tell the tale. If you get struck by airborne and at a closer range? Thats probably gonna bag you 8-C

Please read our pages before you make that kind of claim
 
Spiderman currently scales to Electro's Lightning, that's where his 9-A comes from, so Electro is 9-A
Since Electro's lightning is 9-A and not 8-C, then it wouldn't meet the lightning qualifications
Afterall, Undertale lost it MHS+ Rating since the person who made the lightning bolt was 9-A
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Spiderman currently scales to Electro's Lightning, that's where his 9-A comes from, so Electro is 9-A
Since Electro's lightning is 9-A and not 8-C, then it wouldn't meet the lightning qualifications
Afterall, Undertale lost it MHS+ Rating since the person who made the lightning bolt was 9-A
Click to expand...
Electro's lightning destroyed a car. The 9-A doesn't come from the lightning value lmao
 
Again, I need to remind you guys. The lightning feats on an AP level from the Manga are performed while grounded. The speed of the lightning itself hasn't changed. Not being 8-C =/= becoming slower
 
Lonkitt said:
Again....lightning won't always strike with 8-C attack potency if someone is grounded when they're struck. Please stop skipping over this
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter how much of the lightning Spiderman took, Electro is 9-A despite the "lightning" he produces, this lightning is 9-A, and as such isn't MHS+
 
JustANormalLemon said:
The thing is that even out of the ground electro lightning isn't natural lightning, so It can be a lot slower
Click to expand...
There's several characters who utilize natural lightning in different ways. You wanna argue Electro's using electricity and not lightning? Sure thing, make a thread. But the reasonings above for it being slower aren't how things go according to our pages
Adem_Warlock69 said:
It doesn't matter how much of the lightning Spiderman took, Electro is 9-A despite the "lightning" he produces, this lightning is 9-A, and as such isn't MHS+
Click to expand...
You...you realize that if you get struck by lightning, while grounded, you aren't getting hit with an 8-C attack, right? Thats science. Again. Thats why people IRL who have been struck by lightning have survived. The speed is the same. AP? Different story because of science

You're repeating the same points instead of addressing what I'm saying. Grounded. As in Spider-Man is connected to the ground when he was struck.

This isn't about how much he's hit with. Its the context in which he's struck
 
Lad, I have no clue where you got that I was arguing that Spiderman should be 8-C due to being struck by lightning, that's not what I'm saying at all
Electro, the guy who made the lightning, is 9-A. The lightning he throws is 9-A. Lightning needs to be 8-C. If it isn't 8-C then it isn't MHS+
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Lad, I have no clue where you got that I was arguing that Spiderman should be 8-C due to being struck by lightning, that's not what I'm saying at all
Electro, the guy who made the lightning, is 9-A. The lightnings he throws are 9-A. Lightning needs to be 8-C. If it isn't 8-C then it isn't MHS+
Click to expand...
......

Alright. So you're ignoring me and the page. Read the following carefully. It is literally on the page

"The energy of electricity can directly be calculated if its current and electrical potential difference is known.

If the current is a ampere and the electrical potential difference is v volt, then the power of the lightning is given as a*v J/s. Usually 1 second of this is addressed to the AP, unless the electrical flow couldn't be sustained for that long.

It should be noted that for real electricity enduring a lightning strike usually doesn't require durability equal to the lightnings full energy. There are two reasons for that:

  1. The lightning will usually take only a certain path through the body. Along that path there can be strong burns, but the rest can be largely unaffected.
  2. The lightning doesn't discharge its entire energy in the human body. It will usually also heat up the air and pass on into the ground where its energy disperses. The amount of energy lightning produces in form of heat when flowing through is largely determined by the objects electrical resistance.
Due to this, and possibly other factors, it is for example possible for humans to survive being hit by lightning, even though an average normal lightning contains approximately 1.6 billion Joules. The energy of secondary effects that lightning might cause, can in some cases fully apply on the other hand."
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
...

Is Electro 9-A
Click to expand...
Gonna put this in very simple terms

Character A dodged lightning while on the ground, thats still a speed feat in which they dodged an MHS+ projectile. If Character A was struck while on the ground, they aren't being hit with 8-C energy

Saying "he's 9-A" over and over isn't a valid case, you're gonna have to actually address what I'm saying here

Why are people ignoring the context of 9-A here anyways....?
 
Mate, I said "Electro", not "Spiderman"
The guy who produces the lightning, the one Spiderman got his value from, NEEDS to be 8-C, or his "lightning" aint MHS+
This happened to the Undertale Verse, Vulkin creates a lightning cloud and Frisk can dodge it, but guess what, because Undertale lost its only 8-C calc, Vulkin here became 9-A, and due to that, the lightning didn't qualify for MHS+ anymore, and now they're Hypersonic
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Mate, I said "Electro", not "Spiderman"
The guy who produces the lightning, the one Spiderman got his value from, NEEDS to be 8-C, or his "lightning" aint MHS+
This happened to the Undertale Verse, Vulkin creates a lightning cloud and Frisk can dodge it, but guess what, because Undertal,e lost it's only 8-C calc, Vulkin here became 9-A, and due to that, his lightning didn't qualify for MHS+ anymore, and now they're Hypersonic
Click to expand...
A) Electro doesn't really have a page, so thats not really a great point to bring up. If anything, you're more-so making this sound like there should be an AP upgrade. Not saying you're claiming that. Just that it sounds that way
B) I hate to break it to you, but we've got a ton of pages with valid MHS+ ratings that originate from lightning that is, surprise-surprise, not 8-C. Lower and higher in fact. Context plays a fine role in that. You got a problem with that? Take it up with several pages and calc members because I guarantee you the Spider-Man Manga ain't an outlier on the wiki here
C) Idk whats going on with Undertale scaling, I see the ratings for AP and speed change every time I blink. But losing an unrelated 8-C calc doesn't justify lightning being debunked. I'm not gonna touch Undertale scaling, but just keep that in mind

Can you stop going in circles here?
 
Lonkitt said:
A) Electro doesn't really have a page, so thats not really a great point to bring up. If anything, you're more-so making this sound like there should be an AP upgrade. Not saying you're claiming that. Just that it sounds that way
B) I hate to break it to you, but we've got a ton of pages with valid MHS+ ratings that originate from lightning that is, surprise-surprise, not 8-C. Lower and higher in fact. Context plays a fine role in that. You got a problem with that? Take it up with several pages and calc members because I guarantee you the Spider-Man Manga ain't an outlier on the wiki here
C) Idk whats going on with Undertale scaling, I see the ratings for AP and speed change every time I blink. But losing an unrelated 8-C calc doesn't justify lightning being debunked. I'm not gonna touch Undertale scaling, but just keep that in mind

Can you stop going in circles here?
Click to expand...
Just tag @Therefir given he's the one who started this lol.

I just am not accepting this double standard.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I just am not accepting this double standard.
Click to expand...
Tf you mean double standard, I never implied that

When I referenced other pages, I didn't imply "well, if other pages have mistakes, mistakes like this are fine"

Between the 9-A thing and the qualifications of the lightning here, I think the Spider-Man Manga overall just needs a revision given outdated quality and lack of clarity for the pages ATM
 
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