Soul Manipulation and Power Null for Busushoko Haki Users.

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I've been wondering this for awhile but never got to making a thread about this. But why don't Busushoko Haki users have Soul Manipulation and power null? Busushoko Haki is made from the user's soul.

Busoshoku Haki is a form of Haki that allows the user to use their spirit to create, in essence, an invisible armor around themselves.


Rayleigh also explains it as something spiritual.


As for power null that would come from Haki being able to negate certain aspects of Devil Fruit users, such as Doffy using his stronger Haki to avoid Law's spatial slashing, Garp bypassing Luffy's blunt force resistance and Haki being able to force Logia's to thier true bodies.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Bump

 

[Js250476]

I think Power Nullification is fine but if we don't equalize Devil Fruits with other series it might be limited

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Yeah it wouldn't be combat applicable and neither would the soul Manipulation. Hence why they should be limited.

 

[Davidsteel1]

If haki is essentially weaponising ur soul the suggestion makes sense though it should probably be noted it is limited to the users own soul. And power null also makes sense.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Yeah it's certainly limited. I.E they can't interact with souls, attack them or destroy them. Although they can manipulate their own soul to an extent.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think we can really say they are manipulating their souls to use Haki... it could be meant to be more like 'fighting spirit' than 'spirit / souls'.

Doffy never really uses Haki to stop Law's spatial slashing IIRC.

Haki does allow the user to hit the true body of anyone whose body has been altered by Devil Fruits (certain Paramecia, and Logia), but that is already mentioned on the Haki page.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I doubt it whenever Rayleigh explained it as such. It's the the physical manafastion of one's soul, allowing you to weapon your soul.


Doffy negated Law's hax with stronger hax. Hence why Law couldn't give Doffy the Vergo treatment

 

[Davidsteel1]

Oof, I initially just browsed through the OP's post and somehow skipped over the bit about stopping spatial manipulation I only just noticed when reading Damage's post.

Most of my opinion on the matter remains the same, but I will just point out that I am unsure in regards to haki stopping spatial manipulation.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Well, acording to Doflamingo, Vergo's Haki completely block Law's spartial cuitting, which was supposedly able to cut through anything.

https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-690-page-15.html

 

[Damage3245]

Except that was proven to be completely false, since Law easily cut through Vergo - and Vergo has no feats in the past of resisting Law's spatial cutting.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

It's because Vergo didn't actually have the better Haki. The only reason why Law was having trouble was because Vergo had his heart. After he got it back Law dispatched of him quickly. Unlike with Doffy where Law couldn't use his spatial slicing against him. The statement is what takes priority here, it's not just referring to Vergo. There's multiple displayed feats of Haki doing this, Garp bypassing Luffy's blunt force resistance, Doffy ignoring Law's spatial hax, every Logia getting turned into a solid state by Haki, etc. The list goes on, the point is that Haki is a hard counter to Devil Fruit abilities.

 

[Captain_Torch]

I'm pretty sure that only applies to Devil Fruit abilities though, so I'm not sure how this resistance would work with other verses

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Iirc we only equate Devil Fruits with things that work similarly, such as Quirks from MHA since they're both biological basesd.

 

[Js250476]

So does Doffy resist Spatial Manipulation then or is it limited because it's from a DF Power?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Limited.

 

[Js250476]

Kk understood

 

[1997KD]

It's just a in verse thing

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Bump

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Bump. I'm also wondering if Busushoko Haki users should get Resistance Negation?

 

[Js250476]

Probably if it's justifiable

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Well I mean people were shown to bypass the Blunt Force Resistance of Luffy's with thier Haki.

 

[1997KD]

But Haki only works on devil fruit user tho

 

[The_Calaca]

This is an indexing site. Just because a power is hardly applicable to other verses (a.k.a. in-verse thing) means nothing. Versus threads are just a by-product of this site.

As for the OP's suggestion:

• Soul Manipulation: In any case it's Limited because only the user's soul it's affected. Possibly in the future we will get more input about this when it comes to Armament and clashes. I'm neutral on this. Also, I'm not sure that's Viz translation.

• Haki's Power Nullification: That's already listed. Haki can bypass elemental intangibility which is the logia trait.

• Resistance Negation: Well, Haki bypass Luffy's resistance and should do the same with Buggy's resistance as well so I think Limited Resistance Negation to those types is good.

 

[1997KD]

So luffy with a normal haki punch(armament) can affect seigetsu(from naruto) body?, assuming he is in his water from

 

[The_Calaca]

Exactly.

 

[Ryuga21]

Its should be a Self-Soul Manipulation. Doffy never stops Law Spatial Cutting with Haki, this is Filler.

Busoshoku Haki can hits the true body of others, making the rubber body of Luffy, or the Light Body of Kizaru being usless... This is only Non-Physical Interaction, and nothing else.

 

[The_Calaca]

But even with Armament Luffy can't harm Prometheus who has no body to begin with. Armament bypass elemental intangibility.

 

[Ryuga21]

Prometheus is likely a non-corporal being, he never has a true body. But, Brook can hits him becouse your souls attacks.

 

[The_Calaca]

Since the wiki apparently has the intangibility and the non-corporeality as similar things I think Limited Non-Physical Interaction should be used. Limited to beings who has a real body behind the intangibility being Brook and Big Mom the only ones who can interact with non-corporeal beings by now.

 

[1997KD]

But even with Armament Luffy can't harm Prometheus who has no body to begin with. Armament bypass elemental intangibility.

Isn't haki is just limited to devil fruit power?

I get it from op wiki(and ofcourse it made by fans)

While Haki can bypass the devil fruit's defense, it doesn't negate the devil fruit, like Sea-Prism Stone does. Instead it "forces the devil fruit user's body into solidarity".

It should be limited elemental intangibility negations for haki user.

But then it's a explain as--

• Busoshoku Haki is a form of Haki that allows the user to use their spirit to create, in essence, an invisible armor around themselves.

Character who use their spritiual power (in other verse)should also get the elemental intangibility negations.


In short haki user should only have limited elemental intangibility negations against devil fruit user

 

[The_Calaca]

Devil Fruit is the supernatural trait from the verse. Anything that could be equalized with that would get the same treatment when it comes to interact with Haki. Armament isn't power null because even if Luffy 'hugged' Caesar with Haki he didn't nulled his powers just touched his real body.

For example, there's a BNHA character who has a similar ability to Buggy. She should be able to resist cuts and stabs (don't know tho) but with Haki that resistance is nulled such as Luffy's.

We don't equalize verses that way. If said verse uses the Soul Manipulation to bypass elemental intangibility then it does bypass logia's intangibility. That's the same as equalizing Ki with Reiatsu and making Goku able to burn souls just with the pressure. The former didn't showed that trait so we can't assume it can. Or Naruto having Haoshoku because the 'standing above others' and 'will of the king' stuff.

And I wouldn't use the Wikia unless you have Viz translations supporting it.

I already said that it's limited because it's limited to beings with a real body behind the intangibility. Zeus and Prometheus don't get affected by Haki.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Bump.


So everyone would who can use Busushoko Haki should get the following.


Limited Soul Manipulation, Resistance Negation and Non-Physical Interaction ( Can bypass the abilities and resistance of Devil Fruit uses, users with Busushoko Haki can attack those with who are intangible as long as they have true bodies.)

 

[The_Calaca]

Limited Non-Physical Interaction.

 

[1997KD]

So their soul manipulation comes from their haki? While only brook and bigmom can interact with soul, also as you said he can't able to hurt zeus while zeus have a soul then where his soul manipulation go?

In naruto their were able to hurt seigetsu with chakra attack, while in bleach their is a kenpaichi who can turn into air(but don't remember much about him) I can say we should wait for more member i comment on it

 

[The_Calaca]

From their own soul being weaponized. But I'm not entirely sure about that either.

I don't get your point about bringing the other HST's cases. Different verses, different rules.

 

[Damage3245]

I think the current Haki page is a bit lacking. I can draw up an improved draft using the suggestions mentioned here, and I'll post it in a couple hours.

 

[The_Calaca]

Okay.

 

[Damage3245]

So before I go on and write in the explanations / descriptions, these are the abilities associated with Haki that I can find so far. I don't think Soul Manipulation really applies because from Rayleigh's description, it seems like he's describing it more as 'fighting spirit' than literal 'spirit'.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yeah, that's what I thought.