Sora Vs Black Hat

[Kingofwolves999]

When some of your options aren't working and your outskilled and being injured, yeah, I think going out of your way to try things like Black Hat's plot Manipulation, which works by Black Hat Warping in one of two or three ways and beginning to force a script write with very little the opposition can do about it(cause planetary range ain't cutting it unless we assume that the writers for Sora are on the same plane as the characters which... honestly sounds kinda funny when I think about it), would seem like a better option then some of your other fucky options like Transmutation or fusionism

I mean how does he even get to that point though? If he’s getting out skilled and hurt, he’s gonna be darn near dead, because Sora is going to see he’s weak to Time Stop and do the tried and true “Time Stop -> Smack a lot with Keyblade -> refresh Time Stop (x4-5 times in a row) -> Smack with Keyblade -> Elixer (he has around 8 of them) -> Repeat (no down time btw)”

Black Hat is going to get hit by like over two hundred attacks near instantly if Sora uses Time Stop at all and sees he’s weak to it.

And Sora’s keyblade is not blunt.

 

[Bobsican]

Do I have to seriously bring up Disneyland as an argument in terms of how the mouse "controls" Disney IRL?
Sora's Keyblade is kinda blunt (he doesn't use the side with a protuberation when swinging it, but the smooth one), but simply can make a sharp light to act like a sword anyways.

 

[speedster352]

I vote sora fra

 

[Half_Shiny]

I left this thread unread for way to long

Keep in mind that Black Hat isn't aware of what Sora doesn't resist, and therefore Sora ironically would have more time to figure out his wincon than him, which is further supported by a significantly lower movepool avaliable compared to him, especially if he notices that just using stuff like Thundaga or Graviga won't do it.

Let's break this down, Sora has 18 attacks listed that they have used in standard tactics (15 if we count the start where he would be at max HP) with only one of them being a wincon. Now let's address BH, I do agree he has a large amount of abilities but the problem here is very few are actually used in on actual targets as well as the fact he still has greater odds. Let's go through abilities, BH has a total of 46 base abilities currently (43 from the page and +3 from the ARG). BH has +4 wincons so let's trim the number down. Let's remove obvious ones that aren't and couldn't be attacks: Regeneration, Longevity, Superhuman Physical Characteristics, and Self-Sustenance) 42. Let's get rid of abilities that just either happen around BH or are not combat applicable: Fear, Madness, Empathic manip (all of them are caused by being in his presence for to long), Soul Manip (needs a contract), Technology Manip (Both happens naturally around him and since Sora has no technology on him that BH can see, has no reason to use), and death manipulation (By saying BH's true name it kills you, which idk how Sora would not know BH's true name or his name at all). This by itself narrows down the attacks he has used to around 36 attacks/abilities which is near double the odds of instantly winning the fight in comparison to Sora. There is also the fact several abilities have been shown to be unusable in in many terms or are flat out near useless: Cloth Manip (nvm this ability solos), Body control (has just been shown for intimidation so far), Duplication (just used to scare Flug once), Sealing (Used on souls), Shapeshifting (similar to Body control and duplication), Non-Physical interaction (Sora isn't a ghost), Insect Manipulation (he has created them or used for transformation as a separate ability but the insects themselves have never done anything). Leading to a total of 29 abilities/attacks remaining and leading to a insta win percent of 13.79%. All of these abilities by themselves shows that BH has a significant advantage in the start of the match himself from all the evidence provided. With this estimate being heavily low balled to:
1. Include abilities that would not gain an immediate advantage (Ex: Darkness Manipulation which has been used to create a cane/flair to other abilities or teleportation being the first "attack")
2. Doesn't increase probability for sound manip or possible winners such as explosion manip which literal glance could make Sora explode (If you did it would be 17% with just sound and 21% if both are counted)
3. Include abilities that need some context (such as EE, if he even did it, being a ironic punishment or Immersion being used when people use tech or fiction related materials). Why I included them was because they could still arguably have combat potential which I did not want to be called out for.

I also highballed Sora to just have the notable abilities, with all Notable Attacks/Techniques: it ends up giving a 3% chance of a time stop being used (1/30,15+7+6+2)

TL: DR going through every ability, we find Sora has a 5.56-6.67% (1/15-18) chance of instantly wining at best in comparison to 11.11-13.79% (4/29-36) from Black Hat which has been highly lowballed with the 11% including cloth manipulation as an attack and others as actual attacks. Best case scenario for Sora is a 1.6x in Black Hat's favor (1/15 vs 4/36), if we include notable attacks for Sora and include explosion and noise manip for Black Hat he is 7x times more likely to get to the wincon (1/30 vs 6/29).

To make this problem much more straight forward BH also has access to precognition which makes the argument much easier for BH. And the fact BH can use these abilities much faster than Sora with just a glance instead of an entire motion.

 

[Bobsican]

Precog doesn't seem combat applicable as it relies simply watching the one in question in a TV or similar unless I'm missing something.
Anyways, while the statistics in terms of probability are quite accurate, there's still the matter that given that the first thing Black Hat will do as soon Sora manages to "hit" (most likely with either the Keyblade or magic), he'll vanish elsewhere, which'd give a strong hint of using time magic to prevent that.

 

[Half_Shiny]

I am unsure but since it was able to see he knows the future of a certain character, we don't know if it is tied to the TV screen or not

I mean BH himself is 100% not defenseless he has natural weaponry which could likely stop several attacks. There is natural weaponry, transformation, teleportation, etc which are all options in close quarters. So it is not a guarantee. Like random abilities such as illusion creation are not out of the question for close quarters, For example: Sora could be spending the entire time stop figuring out where BH is in all of this (random example not saying it is what will/going to happen), and again this is just one of the many options he has.

Overall the this seems to be heavily in BH's favor with a one shot being 1.6-7x more likely than Sora's one shot, with 4-6 wincons under BH's belt in comparison to the only 1 Sora has.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, there's more implications of it being tied to the TV than not so far, unless there's a case where it's used in a combat applicable manner at some point?

At close quarters Sora tends to use Aeroga, which is an active barrier that can deflect attacks and inflict damage to others that get close (Without limiting Sora's options in the process), and raising his durability considerably, so that kinda limits BH's physical alternatives as well. And while he can enter forms that'd surround him, it doesn't seem he can go offensive while doing so at the same time? Which'd mean that Sora could just wait until a time he's more open for his purposes to time stop.

 

[frissen]

Black Hat FRA (mostly versatility)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

black hat fra

 

[Mantidil]

I guess I will go Black Hat FRA. He seems like he would more options to take care of Sora. Also, this is KH1 Sora so should be less experienced; I’m not sure if he’d immediately know to spam time stop.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, he did have to spam time magic before against the Phantom.

 

[Mantidil]

I mean, he did have to spam time magic before against the Phantom.

Fair point. I don’t know Black Hat that well, but his versatility still seems like it would be a problem from other’s arguments, so I still vote for him for now.

 

[Jibz]

blackhat fra

this makes the score (assuming Reaper isn't voting BlackHat) : 6 - 2 so far unless im mistaken, so if Reaper is voting BlackHat then this'll be grace

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, I had my fun, but let's avoid unecessarily adding an outdated match, shall we?

 

[Jibz]

Okay, I had my fun, but let's avoid unecessarily adding an outdated match, shall we?

i dont know why, but this sounds so petty lol. I doubt you meant it to come off that way, but it sounds like that.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh sorry, but yeah, it wasn't intended to sound mean.