Sora (Kingdom Hearts) vs Mario

[FateAlbane]

Unless someone brings a legitimate calc to justify the AP being claimed for Mario in this thread, Sora literally waves his keyblade a bit too hard at Mario and he's dead.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

"Base Form Mario"

And the feats listed for his base form are barely above baseline.

 

[Bobsican]

Just called Cal, I hope he doesn´t ignore me.

 

[HST_Master]

Mario is also High 4-C in base, and the Power Stars are also High 4-C at a low-end.

It´s comparable enought.

Except that calc can't be applied to base Mario and that's who's in this match. Being High 4-C doesn't make it applicable to base Mario

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Nothing about his base key states he scales to power star amps.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Except for the fact that he's beaten Power Star amped beings without being empowered himself. The calc's been accepted for like, a year plus. Heck, even Screwattack('s prediction blog) used the calc.

Also, Sora's ice isn't AZ or has any feats close to it.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Where does Sora's making being AZ come from?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Idek.

Anyway, my vote is...I don't know yet. Mario's stronger, has better power ups, and had more experience while Sora has the better techniques, better weapon, and more useful healing.

 

[FateAlbane]

Sora resists Vexen's Ice which is stated to be AZ in his weapon description which is made from his power to begin with. Sora should have resistance to AZ going by that - not sure if we should be scaling Sora's own ice magic to Vexen's when that's his specialty in the series, though.

A Shotlock command in BBS also mentions AZ (though I can't find description for that one so it could be just name).

 

[FateAlbane]

Also experience isn't that much of a factor since Master Xehanort/Ansem/Xemnas/Braig/name practically every major villain in the series have bajillions more experience than Sora and that doesn't stop him from fighting the guy.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Currently reading Frozen Pride's flavor text and it says nothing about ABZ. Maybe it's JP only.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I read all of KHWikis descriptions of Vexen's weapon and it doesn't mention anything about it being absolute zero. The shotlock is just a skilled called Absolute Zero, which can be upgraded which means it's not really AZ anyway.

Plus, the actual depiction of Vexen's ice magic isn't what AZ would look like, so it's probably hyperbole.

Edit: Ninja'd by Cal.

 

[FateAlbane]

358/2 Days one.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

It's just referring to its name, not that it's actually AZ. It's like saying Firaga is the ultimate fire spell.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I see...

It's just a name.

Edit: Ninja'd by Dark this time.

 

[FateAlbane]

That sounds like outright dismissing the power from the user when it comes from the main ice user in the series and it's mentioned in both name and description of the weapon, tbh.

 

[FateAlbane]

It's just referring to its name, not that it's actually AZ. It's like saying Firaga is the ultimate fire spell.

False equivalence. Firaga isn't called 'absolute hot.'

 

[Dragopentling]

Commenting so that I get nots from this interesting match, before discussing when I have more time.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're misinterpreting the first sentence of the description. It's saying Absolute Zero++ is the ultimate Absolute Zero in the same way Master Sword Lv 3 is the Ulitmate Master Sword. It's the ultimate form of the weapon called Absolute Zero.

Frieza's Supernova isn't High 4-C, and Big Bang Kirby isn't 3-A.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Except for the fact that he's beaten Power Star amped beings without being empowered himself. The calc's been accepted for like, a year plus. Heck, even Screwattack('s prediction blog) used the calc.
Also, Sora's ice isn't AZ or has any feats close to it.

That sounds like humoungous inconsistency, he's shown clearly lower feats at High 4-C then the higher calc'd ones, and what are the cases wwhere he beats power star amped beings?

 

[FateAlbane]

• sigh* ...The extents we go to dismiss powers nowadays.

Fine, it's not AZ, whatevs.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Snip

There's like two constellation feats (which even then iirc aren't baseline). One by Yoshi and another by Antasma. Third feat belongs to Power Stars.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Cal Also for that edit: Frieza's Supernova, or Vegeta's Big Bang attack or Kirby are utterly contradicted or dismissed by other facts in the verse which make said tier changes inviable.

For Vexen having AZ there's literally no contradiction that would arise in-verse when he's literally *the* most specialized user of it in the whole series and at worst would only mean his enemies resist it.

But again, whatevs, it's not.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There's the fact that it doesn't have any of the qualities of AZ. It's the same reason we don't give any old person claiming to use black holes the benefit of the doubt.

"the* most specialized user of it in the whole series."

Inb4 Elsa

 

[FateAlbane]

But again, whatevs, it's not.┬│

 

[FateAlbane]

Either way. Reflega reflects physical attacks too (just try it against good ol' Lexaeus) so Mario having the AP advantage (which Lexaeus has for most of his fight) doesn't help. It helps him get more damage reflected at him instead.

 

[FateAlbane]

Also if we talk about "fighting more physically powerful people", Lexaeus can get up to 99999 power by comparison to Sora's measly 100 in game. Doesn't stop him from either reflecting or adapting to parry him and counter with Mega Impact to which the strength of the attack is "whatever Lexaeus current power is + Sora's own".

So there's another reason why AP advantage (on this scale) isn't being any problem for Sora. In fact, it may well become a problem for Mario for the reason I mentioned in the reply right above this one.

 

[Bobsican]

Either way. Reflega reflects physical attacks too (just try it against good ol' Lexaeus) so Mario having the AP advantage (which Lexaeus has for most of his fight) doesn't help. It helps him get more damage reflected at him instead.

Mario can easily start a battle with a constant invisible forcefield aroung him that can tank up to 6 attacks, so Mario can just notice this when he tries to jump onto it and then the next time will just charge his hammer to slam it even harder onto Sora right after the move finishes.

 

[HST_Master]

I just noticed, why is Base Mario scaled to Antasma? Mario was powered up by Luigi at the time.

 

[Bobsican]

We really should do another key for Mario when he is enhanced by Luigi.

 

[FateAlbane]

Mario can easily start a battle with a constant invisible forcefield aroung him that can tank up to 6 attacks, so Mario can just notice this when he tries to jump onto it and then the next time will just charge his hammer to slam it even harder onto Sora right after the move finishes.

1. Since we went the dismissal route for Sora that leaves me fully free to dismiss Mario in this as well: Game mechanics.

2. Doesn't matter since Reflega reflects a crapton of multiple explosions on the attacker if they so much as try to scratch it anyways.

3. Forcefields are nothing new to Sora. Keyblade dispelled them in certain ocasions.

 

[FateAlbane]

Also Sora can spam Reflega if he needs to. Even if he doesn't, if Mario uses his hammer, Sora parries him just like he parries Lexaeus at 99999 PL vs his 100 and counters with Mega Impact turning Mario's own AP against him.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

There's like two constellation feats (which even then iirc aren't baseline). One by Yoshi and another by Antasma. Third feat belongs to Power Stars.

Uh Yoshi's is quite literally a single star, Antasma's scales to Dreamy Luigi's who's feat who has only around 23 stars, which would be 1.5E42(or43), which is barely above baseline. No where do any of these feats go even near Power Stars feats which are quite literally 1.18591296000000005e+47. That's like a e+5 or e+4 difference, mind you the dreamy luigi feat was an active amp for Mario. You also didn't answer my second question.

 

[Bobsican]

I don´t think being left unable to do anything else while using Reflega is game mechanics, note that Sora is clearly still holding onto it, aka, if he tries to do something else, it just vanishes, unless you mean him just using it while Mario is attacking.

Mario can also Power Null it, but I don´t know how it works as the profile doesn´t give details of that.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Sora resisted power null more than once.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Bob I mean game mechanics is the whole thing about "Mario tanks any 6 attacks".

Reflega does not leave you open at all in game. Not sure where that idea came from. In fact after the spell barrier has already disappeared and the reflection effect is still going on, you can start to move for a window of time without being hit quite yet.

Sora can spam it one after another if the enemy is trying to spam him too, so battle of attrition against Reflega just means the opponent keeps taking more and more damage if they try to persist in hitting you unless it's a boss with Invincibility frames.

Power Null won't work since Sora resists/has Power Null of his own. Luxord once tried that with something pretty complex, too (Zexion's absent Sillhouette fight too, technically). Backfired spectacularly on him/them.

Terra's Lingering Will also does it to the point where you can't even physically attack, too/or to the point you're binded and if you try to do something you lose energy instead on top of the paralysis and Sora can recover from/dispel it.

 

[HST_Master]

How often is Mario to actually use this Invisible forcefield of his? Also Sora can use Magic on the move in Drive Forms

 

[Bobsican]

Welp, in that case Mario can´t do much against that, however, since when he can spam a particular spell? I´m sure he has to recharge it by waiting.

Oh yeah, maybe I confused it with some other move.

As for the 6 attacks, I mean, it can even tank hits form Antasma, note that it isn´t even that good, as a combo or a multi-hit attack easily breaks it as those moves easily reach 6 hits.

By the way, add this to the OP, it´s very fitting

As for the invisible forcefield, well, it´s a basic piece of equipment he can simply equip like the Super Suit, which activates once a battle starts.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

sora yeets his keyblade FRA

 

[FateAlbane]

Like I said, a single Reflega spell reflecting one simple hit from the enemy, hits the same enemy a lot of times. So the shield tanking 6 hits isn't changing anything either, tbh.

Also yes, in case I haven't yet, count me for Sora, reasons already told.