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Sonicverse: Tier 5 Revisions

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Mephiles was supposed to be In forces as a character or a projection made by Infinite, man.......... I miss the dreamcast-06 times, serious but not too gritty plot, every character had a say (besides ray and mighty) and Eggman was the big boss with the power to get **** done, was hell-bent on world domination in a really crispy note that made him unique, now he feels toned down..
 
The real cal howard said:
Aight so Shake asked me to comment here again as he had no other options. Whether I agree or not, he just wants this to move on.

Here's the original calc for the Exlipse Cano. Giving it the star statement, it's continent level, not any cosmic level blast.

But that's not my main draw.

I'm still not for this upgrade, sorry.

One, Dark Gaia. I'm not believing Sonic stomped it. One, that just makes no sense. Final boss getting stomped. Two, I was there when Sera upgraded the Emeralds. Her words were something like the CEs Power is as strong as they need to be for the scenario. Sonic straight up wasn't hitting with tier 2 energy unless DG was tier 2 itself.

Also the logic about the negative Chaos Energy feels...strange. Eggman used an Emerald to screw up the planet all the way back in the Advance games, and it didn't turn gray. Surely didn't have positive intentions then.

But mostly, the characters being anywhere near the doomsday weapons makes little sense storywise. They always need to stop it from the inside, and what you're saying is literally anyone worth their salt can wreck the Emerald powered doomsday weapons. Sonic's shown to need his super form to do it in Unleashed's opening. This is pushed even further by the fact that Eggman specifically has machines capable of combating Sonic that are very much not Emerald level. Boss machines (imma just call it that) = Sonic = Eclipse Canon and the like >>>>>>> Boss Machines. Chaos is the biggest offender, with the massive inconsistencies of his portrayal. As I said before, Cheese being > Chaos in any of his forms, let alone Perfect, makes zero sense contextually.

Basically what I'm saying is that the franchise is inconsistent.

I'm sorry. I know i was just supposed to take my leave. I should just go again. Sorry for disappointing.
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In order:

The calc didn't assume it being able to pierce through stars, which is what differs from that Eclipse Cannon calc and the one being used at the moment.

Neutral on whether it was Tier 2 power or not. All I'm saying is that Super Sonic at minimum should be >>> Hyper-Go-On energy. Wr assume Perfect Dark Gaia is 5-A, but in really would scale to whatever Super Sonic's low-end should be after the removal of 5-A. Be that High 4-C, 4-A, or... I dunno. Whatever.

The Advanced game example is something that can't really be compared, as the Chaos Emerald was used as a direct means of splitting the planet rather than as a key to some form of energy.

That's reaching a little bit. Cheese is an Adventure Era character, and Modern Sonic and those who scale would be the ones affected by the 5-A upgrade. What a person feels is right and wrong has no prevelance within powerscaling. Sonic ultimately beat Perfect Chaos within Generations, which already shows that his repeated statements of growing in strength actually holds weight. Feeling weird and actually being wrong are things that should remain seperated.
 
Happening also doesn't keep it from being an outlier. Pikachu obviously gets stronger throughout the generations, and that dude has a ton of outliers. Not even talking about hurting Arceus. There's the Regi Trio, Latios, Mirage Mewtwo, and the cavalcade I'd Legenddey Tier threats he hurt in the most recent generation. And Kirby was said to have infinite power, but he didn't scale to Magolor back when the Master Crown was 3-A. Sorry I'm using a bunch of Nintendo examples. They're the first ones that come to my head due to being well...me.

Also, it's not what feels right/wrong, as it's purely going by the context the story gives us. I could argue that it feels wrong to scale Pikachu to tier 6-4 because a regular Pokémon shouldn't be on the level of Legendaries, but it happened. Sonic trains sure but he's not getting growths like a shounen protagonist. Evidenced by the fact that all of his friends can still keep up with him, and I'm sure Tails doesn't train or anything like that. Sure we could argue Knuckles (best boi), Shadow, Silver, and Blaze train to keep up, but Amy? Big? They're Sonic level characters after all. Plus there's still the case of Forces putting him right back down to Chaos 0 level.

I do agree tho that Super Sonic should have a low end of star level tho. He should be 4-C to 2-C, as the original calc for the FEB was tier 4. Shake could vouch for me there.
 
You could argue it could be an outlier were it not for them already being at 5-B in the first place, and damn near 5-A with less than a 2x increase in strength to get there. Alongside already being significantly above the 1.4 Yottaton mark, thrashing the Egg Dragoon is also a supporting 5-A feat as well. There aren't just statements here, but feats to support a 5-A rating as well.

Sonic not getting that much stronger is contradictory to what's given to us. Rouge says he's gotten "much stronger" within Sonic Battle. Obviously that doesn't give us much, but enough to tell us that his strength grows significantly. Tails actually has been stated to train with Sonic within Sonic Rivals after confronting Rouge, so ha OvO. Amy, Big and etc. have had no relevance to the plot to put them on Sonic's level whatsoever within the Modern Era. Even someone like Silver is seen to be smacked around by Infinite before Sonic goes head-to-head with him. And if you want to talk about Chaos 0, even Classic Sonic one-shots him. Classic Sonic, the guy who is currently rated as Low 6-B.

Even at worst Super Sonic would be Large Star+ due to being superior to a random Wisp and being able to tangle with the Mother Wisp, who should be superior to any other Wisp ever. But yes, Cal does at least agree Super Sonic's low end shouldn't be 5-A.
 
Let's wait a bit before we shut the whole operation down. Shake has told me personally he is busy and will address this shortly.

Edit: Whoops. He commented.
 
Thank you for helping out Cal.
 
All those arguments were just analogies with a completely diferent context than this

We can just put Chaos 0 at the level of the current cast instead of downgrading everyone else, he could simply be stronger than his adventure self thus scale instead of downgrading everyone, plus the emeralds just Amp him, he could be simply already be at that level, get what I am saying?

Anyways I do agree not every character should get to be as strong as current Sonic and Co, only certain characters

The original calc of the FEB was simply wrong from another website, Sonic's fight with Dark Gaia doesn't even matter because the 5-A is from the cannon who simply awakened him, he even absorved the Werehog before fighting Light Gaia so scaling him to a feat that isn't even his is weird, he simply should be 4-A to 2-BC
 
Wokistan said:
I can agree with saying Modern is stronger than dreamcast era and scaling him to perfect chaos, egg dragoon, etc at 5-A. I don't really feel like dealing with the rest rn but maybe I'll come back
Click to expand...
@Ant, Wok explicitaly agreed with the main part of the thread...
 
Yes, but doesn't Cal disagree? That makes the situation uncertain.
 
Well, the parts that both Wokistan and Cal agree about can probably be applied.
 
Theuser789 said:
All those arguments were just analogies with a completely diferent context than this
We can just put Chaos 0 at the level of the current cast instead of downgrading everyone else, he could simply be stronger than his adventure self thus scale instead of downgrading everyone, plus the emeralds just Amp him, he could be simply already be at that level, get what I am saying?

Anyways I do agree not every character should get to be as strong as current Sonic and Co, only certain characters

The original calc of the FEB was simply wrong from another website, Sonic's fight with Dark Gaia doesn't even matter because the 5-A is from the cannon who simply awakened him, he even absorved the Werehog before fighting Light Gaia so scaling him to a feat that isn't even his is weird, he simply should be 4-A to 2-BC
Click to expand...
actually it wasn't the cannon that woke dark gaia, it was an amalgam of super sonic's amazing powers and as well as the chaos emeralds. http://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?title=File:SonicUnleashed_Prima_digital_guide.pdf&page=5
 
I never agreed with 2-C or 4-A Super Hedgies because it's super flimsy with actual context from the games but this site can do whatever the hell it wants since Sonci seems to be it's little baby like Zelda.
 
Good then, we don't need baseless claims/opinions without proof of it, actualy argue why instead of appealing to the authority of you actualy knowing unlike us when we all played those games multiple times
 
Well, we cannot base an upgrade on one staff member agreeing and another disagreeing.
 
Maybe you could respectfully ask him to comment again, or ask other staff members?
 
Feel free to do so. You can ask some other staff members this time if you wish.
 
TheImagineBreaker121212 said:
this is nuts, if it was any other franchise this would've been got.
Click to expand...
No, we always need some sort of staff consensus. This is nothing unusual. The staff are just more reluctant to help out, since the Sonic threads have been filled with too much drama, and regular members who do not respect their decisions and continue to argue forever.
 
Usually you argue because there are problems in the opposition's arguments, not because you feel like it. And the situation is already known. Bringing it up three times in every single Sonic CRT ultimately helps nothing and only puts the "Sonic fans" on edge. We get it, someone said some poo poo words on Discord. You don't need to hang it over anybody.

I'm currently asking more staff.
 
I don't care if it's accepted or not this reluctancy is like having a sick day for a month and getting a 5,000 paycheck for a mid rate job. this goes against the "compromise" environment full stop, there are many threads about sega when I can say staff are right but there's the few which they are wrong, i'm not busting no chops I look up to them for being able to take on the stress and converse but completely ditching a verse and threatening it's chances of revising statistics/powers/abilities is pretty underwhelming. This is more immature than the erratic sega folks here (obviously not including the level headed ones). You have poeple like Sonic And NiGHTS lacking attention while You Got Thanos, Yu, Ragna And Dante dancing in the chaos with all their buffs.
 
You can't fight fire with fire. Even if any of that were true, Imagine, you need to be the one to keep a leveled head here. So again, whether you need to stop commenting or just walk away for a while, just take it easy.
 
The staff other than myself mostly do not do this as a job, but as a hobby. Hence, you need to make sure that you treat them well, or they will be far less likely to wish to help out for free anymore.
 
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