Sonic (Video Game) - Planetary Size Justifications

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

the planet's moon got blown in half with absolutely no consequence

That's literally most shows with celestial bodies blowing up, I am neutral on all of this, but this is not a valid point to bring up

 

[Theuser789]

I think he's talking about the moon appearing whole, actually. Iizuka's explanation is that "the moon turned around."

 

[ShakeResounding]

Pretty much, yup

 

[Dark-Carioca]

So what's left to do here, exactly? Validate the size of this planet?

 

[CloverDragon03]

So what's left to do here, exactly? Validate the size of this planet?

Pretty much, yeah. Determine whether or not it's valid to use a size for Sonic's planet that isn't just the size of our Earth

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

Also it should be noted that I found out Tails Tube isn't using the Soninc Unleashed Map, but one based the Sonic Forces going by the video. That game you can actually see a ton of smaller islands.

Overall I think another issue I didn't mention seems like there's absolutely zero consistency in what the planet actually looks like.

 

[omegabronic]

Bump

Also it should be noted that I found out Tails Tube isn't using the Soninc Unleashed Map, but one based the Sonic Forces going by the video. That game you can actually see a ton of smaller islands.Overall I think another issue I didn't mention seems like there's absolutely zero consistency in what the planet actually looks like.

1 no you can't see smaller islands, you cab see part of the continent
2
1m30s
The tailstube episode is not using the forces map, it is using the unleashed one
3 outside of the map from forces, all otyer shots of the planet are nearly identical between games
4 even if the layout for the planet's continents was inconsistent as you said, it isn't, it wouldn't matter for the statement at all, as it doesn't involve the shapes of the continents

 

[Qawsedf234]

1 no you can't see smaller islands, you cab see part of the continent

You can see Chemical Plant zone in the game, along with Green Hill zone and other classic areas on the map.

The tailstube episode is not using the forces map, it is using the unleashed one

None of the contients in Unleashed match the map Tails showed.

outside of the map from forces, all otyer shots of the planet are nearly identical between games

No they aren't. I'll edit them in when I get the chance but almost every game that shows a planetary map has massive differences between them.

EDIT:

• Sonic the Fighters
• Shadow the Hedgehog
• Sonic Riders
• Sonic Unleashed
• Sonic Frontiers
• TailsTube

Like these are incredibly different from each other.

even if the layout for the planet's continents was inconsistent as you said, it isn't, it wouldn't matter for the statement at all, as it doesn't involve the shapes of the continents

It means there's no concrete idea of what the planet looks like and would make scaling to it incredible questionable.

 

[omegabronic]

You can see Chemical Plant zone in the game, along with Green Hill zone and other classic areas on the map.

if you mean Sonic Forces' map, just know that in that game those areas are part of the main continent, and are in said continent, idk why you would use the one map that contradicts all other maps in the series anyway, regardless, even in this one we can't see any islands at all

None of the contients in Unleashed match the map Tails showed.

they literally used a screen shot straight out of unleashed, in no point did they ever showed the Forces map at all in any way

No they aren't. I'll edit them in when I get the chance but almost every game that shows a planetary map has massive differences between them.

EDIT:

• Sonic the Fighters
• Shadow the Hedgehog
• Sonic Riders
• Sonic Unleashed
• Sonic Frontiers
• TailsTube

Like these are incredibly different from each other.

no they aren't first off, the tailstube one and the Unleashead one are the same map, straight up the one in tailstube is a screen shot from unleashed, riders and shadow's are nearly indentical with very subtle differences between them, and even in unleashed they have pretty much a similar shape

the only 2 that stand out are the one from Fighters, which considering that it is the classic era may just be an outdated idea and the one from Forces(Not Frontiers as you said) which is just 1 inconsistency in what is otherwise a very consistent showing of multiple continents, the overall "shape" of the continents is very consistent from the 5 examples you showed, with 3 being nearly identical to one another while 1 is the outlier and the other is different, but still following the same logic of the other maps of "multiple continents and no visible islands at all", so no, there is no "incredible" difference in how the planet was portrayed through out the games, it is actually pretty consistent

It means there's no concrete idea of what the planet looks like and would make scaling to it incredible questionable.

what the planet's continents look like matters to nothing to the statement about the islands not being visible unless most of them have them as visible, which none of them have, so none of them contradict the statement being discussed in question


also from what i see you changed your position over the OP, since you now are not suggesting that the evidence for a bigger planet is not enough, but rather you are asking for a recalculation using a more consistent model, which the S3K still fits since we see no continets and we are only looking at the sea, so we can't say that it is different from any of the other maps since the camera never moves to the continents of the planet at all, making it the safest bet even under the logic you are using now

 

[Qawsedf234]

if you mean Sonic Forces' map, just know that in that game those areas are part of the main continent, and are in said continent, idk why you would use the one map that contradicts all other maps in the series anyway, regardless, even in this one we can't see any islands at all

You can't say "Contradicts every map in the series" when literally every map contradicts each other.

In addition we do have multiple maps were other islands are visible.

they literally used a screen shot straight out of unleashed, in no point did they ever showed the Forces map at all in any way

Can you show me where in Unleashed this would be from. EDIT: No, I see what you mean now. It is a screenshot from Unleashed based on Shamar in focus.

riders and shadow's are nearly indentical with very subtle differences

What? They are nowhere near identical. The are radically different from each other.

Forces(Not Frontiers as you said)

I was playing Sonic Frontiers today and I had swapped the map names. My mistake there, I did mean Forces.

even in unleashed they have pretty much a similar shape

They don't. I have no idea how you're seeing any of the maps (other than Fighters and Riders which are just the IRL Earth Map) being similar to each other. Shadow and Unleashed even have a different number of large continents between them.

also from what i see you changed your position over the OP,

I didn't. I said I found additional issues with it

Overall I think another issue I didn't mention seems like there's absolutely zero consistency in what the planet actually looks like.

My position hasn't changed, I just brought up another point.

making it the safest bet even under the logic you are using now

The safest bet would be to dismiss the calc entirely and used standard a Earth size unless an official figure or map with confirmed units is given.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I can’t comment on the specifics of the calculation since calcs aren’t my area of expertise, but I support Sonic’s Earth being larger than the real world one via the TailsTube quote.

 

[omegabronic]

You can't say "Contradicts every map in the series" when literally every map contradicts each other.

they don't contradict each other in this way, all of them show multiple continents but the forces one

In addition we do have multiple maps were other islands are visible.

will you show said islands then? because at most what i see in them is only smaller parts of the continents and not islands at all

Can you show me where in Unleashed this would be from. EDIT: No, I see what you mean now. It is a screenshot from Unleashed based on Shamar in focus.

good that we could solve that problem then

What? They are nowhere near identical. The are radically different from each other.

the overall organization of the continents is the same, with only the shape being slightly different, example being the center africa like continent that is present in both

I was playing Sonic Frontiers today and I had swapped the map names. My mistake there, I did mean Forces.

ok then

They don't. I have no idea how you're seeing any of the maps (other than Fighters and Riders which are just the IRL Earth Map) being similar to each other. Shadow and Unleashed even have a different number of large continents between them.

do any of them show islands being visible? because for the statement that is all that matters

I didn't. I said I found additional issues with it

My position hasn't changed, I just brought up another point.

not really, you went from arguing that there is not enough evidence that the planet is bigger(what the OP says) to now saying that even with said evidence that the supposedly inconsistency of the planet's continents (which as i explained is not a problem at all for S3K's map, thus making it the best in using) would make using the map in the calculation not viable

The safest bet would be to dismiss the calc entirely and used standard a Earth size unless an official figure or map with confirmed units is given.

as i explained and you ignored, the S3K one covers all of those "inconsistencies" at once, since it is only looking at the sea, thus it doesn't contradict any other map at all, thus being the safest bet
when you still acknowledge the statement you can't just ignore the ramifications of it, even if you don't want to use any of the maps, one could still calculate the size of the planet by calculating how big it would need to be for such massive islands to not be visible from space at all, assuming Earth size is the most incorrect option as it straight up ignores what the series is saying, which would lead us into being inaccurate to said series, which is the opposite of what this wiki is for

besides all that, the only "contradiction" that would matter at all for the statement would be for the islands to be visible or not, which in absolutely every map you showed, they aren't, so it doesn't really matter at all and we still get that statement as super consistent

this is like we are saying "hey A can't be seen" and then you said "but G looks different, so A must be visible" which is a non sequitur, one has nothing to do with the other and doesn't serve at all to disprove said other, so it is just a irrelevant comparison that doesn't disprove the statement in question, thus not being useful in your argument to not use it

 

[Qawsedf234]

they don't contradict each other in this way, all of them show multiple continents but the forces one

They contradict each other in being pretty radically different displays of what the world looks like.

will you show said islands then?

I've mentioned them before. Forces also has highlighted regions of previous Sonic games and they're not shown as being irrelevant half pixels on the map.

the overall organization of the continents is the same,

The shape, where they're positioned and the sizes of all those continents are different. Their only similarity is that they share similar vague outlines. Even then you have stuff like the Eclipse Cannon cutscene in Shadow the Hedgehog just happen on a continent that looks like North America rather than the in-game map since you can see Baja California and Michigan.

not really, you went from arguing that there is not enough evidence that the planet is bigger(what the OP says) to now saying that even with said evidence that the supposedly inconsistency of the planet's continents

I said there's not enough evidence that the planet is bigger and then mentioned in addition to that none of the games are consistent with each other. Its two supporting points, not me changing the primary point.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I can’t comment on the specifics of the calculation since calcs aren’t my area of expertise, but I support Sonic’s Earth being larger than the real world one via the TailsTube quote.

2 - 2 then.

 

[omegabronic]

They contradict each other in being pretty radically different displays of what the world looks like.

in which all are consistent that there are multiple continents, that aspect is consistent in all of them but the Forces one, so again, in this aspect only the forces one stands out

I've mentioned them before.

in the fighters one these are the outlines of the continents and not islands

and in the unleashed and forces one, which people have answered already earlier in the thread but you didn't gave any counter arguments for it, are just part of adabat, aka part of the continent and not islands at all, and i frankly have no idea why you would even think that they are islands when they are very clear close to the continent, just like irl, parts of the continent are disconnected and are smaller than the main continent, but are still part of the continent and not islands nonetheless

edit: oh and btw, that one Sonic unleashed map you are currently using is not official, it is a fan recreation, it would be better if you use the official map of the game instead of a fan maded one that distorts the continents to make a globe fit in a plane

Forces also has highlighted regions of previous Sonic games and they're not shown as being irrelevant half pixels on the map.

in forces they are not even islands, but are all localized in the same pagea like continent, so this argument is extremely moot

The shape, where they're positioned and the sizes of all those continents are different. Their only similarity is that they share similar vague outlines. Even then you have stuff like the Eclipse Cannon cutscene in Shadow the Hedgehog just happen on a continent that looks like North America rather than the in-game map since you can see Baja California and Michigan.

all i can see in there is a vague outline that matches the overall shape of the continents we see in this game and in later games, it is both in too poor quality and too dark to say that it is in the exact shape of North America

I said there's not enough evidence that the planet is bigger

which you were presented evidence against and then started to purely talk about the calculation itself without trying to disprove that the planet is indeed bigger

and then mentioned in addition to that none of the games are consistent with each other. Its two supporting points, not me changing the primary point.

they are all consistent with the statement in Tailstube that "the islands can't be seem from space" with all we ever see being the smaller parts of the continents without any confirmation that we are seeing islands, which given the official statement, would require some hard evidence that they are indeed islands, which you didn't gave, you just pointed and said "these are islands" when they are very clearly not, it is your word vs the official lore statement of the series, which you would need to show evidence from instead of just saying that they are islands without any evidence that they indeed are


also i don't appreciate you ignoring one part of my points, so please, say anything about these directly:

as i explained and you ignored, the S3K one covers all of those "inconsistencies" at once, since it is only looking at the sea, thus it doesn't contradict any other map at all, thus being the safest bet
when you still acknowledge the statement you can't just ignore the ramifications of it, even if you don't want to use any of the maps, one could still calculate the size of the planet by calculating how big it would need to be for such massive islands to not be visible from space at all, assuming Earth size is the most incorrect option as it straight up ignores what the series is saying, which would lead us into being inaccurate to said series, which is the opposite of what this wiki is for

besides all that, the only "contradiction" that would matter at all for the statement would be for the islands to be visible or not, which in absolutely every map you showed, they aren't, so it doesn't really matter at all and we still get that statement as super consistent

this is like we are saying "hey A can't be seen" and then you said "but G looks different, so A must be visible" which is a non sequitur, one has nothing to do with the other and doesn't serve at all to disprove said other, so it is just a irrelevant comparison that doesn't disprove the statement in question, thus not being useful in your argument to not use it

which the S3K still fits since we see no continents and we are only looking at the sea, so we can't say that it is different from any of the other maps since the camera never moves to the continents of the planet at all, making it the safest bet even under the logic you are using now

besides even if you don't want to use any maps from the series, we can still calculate the size of the planet by calculating how big it would need to be for an island like Angel Island to not be visible from the orbit/space of said planet, so unless you show contradictions to the statement, all you are saying would lead to a recalc more than anything else, given all the other evidence for the planet being bigger given earlier in the thread


btw i wil be going to sleep now, and i will only be able to answer tomorrow, so keep that in mind

 

[Qawsedf234]

in which all are consistent that there are multiple continents, that aspect is consistent in all of them but the Forces one, so again, in this aspect only the forces one stands out

Sure, but that doesn't really much when they're all still massively different from each other.

and in the unleashed and forces one, which people have answered already earlier in the thread but you didn't gave any counter arguments for it

I did give counter answers to it, they just disagreed with the answers I gave.

edit: oh and btw, that one Sonic unleashed map you are currently using is not official, it is a fan recreation, it would be better if you use the official map of the game instead of a fan maded one that distorts the continents to make a globe fit in a plane

Its not a fan map (as in trying to be accurate), its the textures extracted from the game put in a 2D space, which is why they look weird.

in forces they are not even islands, but are all localized in the same pagea like continent, so this argument is extremely moot

Its not, since the argument is "This game clearly shows islands from previous games at notable sizes".

it is both in too poor quality and too dark to say that it is in the exact shape of North America

You can make out the shapes pretty easily in my view

also i don't appreciate you ignoring one part of my points, so please, say anything about these directly:

I give you what I said earlier: The calc is based on a flawed premise. Tail's quote is about island dotting the ocean. Angel Island doesn't dot the ocean and is from the mainland itself, since it used to part of Mystic Ruins/Station Square. In my view it wouldn't apply to Tail's quote at all, even discounting that the planet is regularly shown as being inconsistent presentation wise.

 

[Theuser789]

Bump

Also it should be noted that I found out Tails Tube isn't using the Soninc Unleashed Map, but one based the Sonic Forces going by the video. That game you can actually see a ton of smaller islands.

Overall I think another issue I didn't mention seems like there's absolutely zero consistency in what the planet actually looks like.

Tailstube is, again, referring to the general fact that in every game map we can’t see islands like Angel Island or West Side Island or recent ones like North Star, etc.

Green Hill and Chemical Plant being in Forces map isn't proof Tails is wrong in the Tailstube. Chemical Plant in Forces is not the same as West Side's Chemical Plant. This is obvious because they look nothing alike, Forces Chemical Plant takes place in an artic continent. And Green Hill is just a plain contradiction. It takes place in a large continent close to a big city, which isn't the case for South Island Green Hill. It's possible it's just a different one similar to Green Hills from Sonic 2 8-bit.

The planet maps being inconsistent from game to game also isn't important to the main point, that we can't see islands in those world maps. Which is undeniably true.

 

[Theuser789]

I've mentioned them before. Forces also has highlighted regions of previous Sonic games and they're not shown as being irrelevant half pixels on the map.

This feels like grasping at straws. None of these are actual islands but simply parts of the continents, like it was already discussed in the thread. It just feels like you are trying to find any piece of evidence to discredit Tails statement. The only valid point is Forces... IF those were the actual locations from South Island and West Side Island (which they aren’t).

 

[omegabronic]

I did give counter answers to it, they just disagreed with the answers I gave.

for that message's point you didn't, you in fact never gave any response to that message and its points at all

Its not a fan map (as in trying to be accurate), its the textures extracted from the game put in a 2D space, which is why they look weird.

which distorts size and is as such inaccurate in its representation of the globe in unleashed

Its not, since the argument is "This game clearly shows islands from previous games at notable sizes".

did you not read what i said? they are not in islands at all period, there are no islands from previous games shown in the game, it is all just 1 big continent with the stages spread in it, there is no visible island, there is not even any island at all in the game period

You can make out the shapes pretty easily in my view

you can vaguely see the shape of a continent, but not an exact shape of any irl continent

I give you what I said earlier: The calc is based on a flawed premise. Tail's quote is about island dotting the ocean. Angel Island doesn't dot the ocean and is from the mainland itself, since it used to part of Mystic Ruins/Station Square.

In my view it wouldn't apply to Tail's quote at all

Angel island was part of the main continent, but now it isn't and is now an island, one that we can't see in any map in any of the series' globes, and one that would be included in Tails' statement as for examples of the islands he is talking about he says that it is "the islands where people like us(Anthro animals) live" which would include the likes of Knuckles, who lives on angel island, sum this with the fact that Angel island is never ever seen in any map of the series + it being an island just like any other island in Sonic's world + being included in the "kind of islands folk like tails and sonic live" and you get very on point indication that the statement is absolutely talking about Angel Island as well

even if for some reason you still don't think that it is talking about Angel Island, that is ok, since all the other islands are shown to be comparable, if not bigger than Angel Island, thus the logic for the calc stays the same and the calculation still correct

, even discounting that the planet is regularly shown as being inconsistent presentation wise.

as i said earlier, this one is completely irrelevant for the statement at all, the shape of the continents being different is irrelevant for the very clear fact that no island is visible from space in any map of the series at all, this is a consistent fact, thus the statement stays consistent with the series no matter the map


also can you please stop ignoring one of my arguments, feels disingenuous for you to do so

as i explained and you ignored, the S3K one covers all of those "inconsistencies" at once, since it is only looking at the sea, thus it doesn't contradict any other map at all, thus being the safest bet
when you still acknowledge the statement you can't just ignore the ramifications of it, even if you don't want to use any of the maps, one could still calculate the size of the planet by calculating how big it would need to be for such massive islands to not be visible from space at all, assuming Earth size is the most incorrect option as it straight up ignores what the series is saying, which would lead us into being inaccurate to said series, which is the opposite of what this wiki is for

besides all that, the only "contradiction" that would matter at all for the statement would be for the islands to be visible or not, which in absolutely every map you showed, they aren't, so it doesn't really matter at all and we still get that statement as super consistent

this is like we are saying "hey A can't be seen" and then you said "but G looks different, so A must be visible" which is a non sequitur, one has nothing to do with the other and doesn't serve at all to disprove said other, so it is just a irrelevant comparison that doesn't disprove the statement in question, thus not being useful in your argument to not use it

it is a very valid point in my view, and for you to consistently ignored it doesn't feel right

 

[Qawsedf234]

for that message's point you didn't, you in fact never gave any response to that message and its points at all

For that one I said it was part of an island chain and they said it wasn't. I have nothing to it other than its a chain of small islands.

which distorts size and is as such inaccurate in its representation of the globe in unleashed

Even under the correct 3D presentation Unleashed doesn't match any other map in the game series.

did you not read what i said?

I did, but I disagree with it. Which I'm allowed to do.

you can vaguely see the shape of a continent, but not an exact shape of any irl continent

You can make out California, Michigan and the USA's Eastern Seaboard. The shapes are not present in the in-game map at all.

d one that would be included in Tails' statement as for examples of the islands he is talking about he says that it is "the islands where people like us(Anthro animals) live"

He also says those islands dot the oceans, which isn't what Angel Island does and when it wasn't floating it was part of a human continent.

even if for some reason you still don't think that it is talking about Angel Island, that is ok, since all the other islands are shown to be comparable, if not bigger than Angel Island, thus the logic for the calc stays the same and the calculation still correct

Then use those islands instead since they would apply to Tail's statement. Angel Island doesn't fit and therefore shouldn't be used.

as i said earlier, this one is completely irrelevant for the statement at all, the shape of the continents being different is irrelevant for the very clear fact that no island is visible from space in any map of the series at all, this is a consistent fact, thus the statement stays consistent with the series no matter the map

It doesn't since multiple maps show islands where animal people live at along with smaller chains of islands.

also can you please stop ignoring one of my arguments, feels disingenuous for you to do so

I'm not ignoring your arguments, I'm just not block quoting everything you say since its redundant.

it is a very valid point in my view, and for you to consistently ignored it doesn't feel right

I addressed it previously. If you want to adjust the calc for Angel Island floating in the air then adjust it for floating in the air or if you want to use Sonic 1/2 to use for size rather than Angel Island then use those. But Angel Island doesn't fit statement Tails gives, since its not dotting the ocean.

 

[omegabronic]

i stopped talking about the countries point because i realized that it would be a cycle of me and you repeating ourselves and that it is not much relevant for the points at hand anymore

For that one I said it was part of an island chain and they said it wasn't. I have nothing to it other than its a chain of small islands.

how do you know that these are islands and not part of the continents? more over, how do you know that these are part of the islands where the anthro people live like south and westside island?

I did, but I disagree with it. Which I'm allowed to do.

it is just that you didn't covered what i said in the point, you used Green Hill as an example of the islands Tails talked about being visible, when Green Hill is not even on a island in that game at all, so you just saying "it shows islands from previous games clearly visible" while not covering my explanation and points about why they aren't visible since they are not even on a island at all in game makes me think that you didn't read what i said, since you didn't covered any of the points that i said

He also says those islands dot the oceans, which isn't what Angel Island does and when it wasn't floating it was part of a human continent.

Then use those islands instead since they would apply to Tail's statement. Angel Island doesn't fit and therefore shouldn't be used.

If you want to adjust the calc for Angel Island floating in the air then adjust it for floating in the air or if you want to use Sonic 1/2 to use for size rather than Angel Island then use those. But Angel Island doesn't fit statement Tails gives, since its not dotting the ocean.

aside from the "it would dot the ocean even if it was floating"
with this being you saying that the calc is ok as long as we use the other, similar if not bigger than Angel Island, Islands to calc instead of Angel Island, then the calc would be ok? because if your main contention for the statement is resolved, then we can move on from there

I'm not ignoring your arguments, I'm just not block quoting everything you say since its redundant.

oh i see, thank you for clarifying

I addressed it previously.

i didn't saw, could you link it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

i stopped talking about the countries point because i realized that it would be a cycle of me and you repeating ourselves and that it is not much relevant for the points at hand anymore

I was going to do the same ngl.

with this being you saying that the calc is ok as long as we use the other, similar if not bigger than Angel Island, Islands to calc instead of Angel Island, then the calc would be ok? because if your main contention for the statement is resolved, then we can move on from there

Yeah. My issue is with Angel Island being used, because it doesn't fit the statement in my mind. Another purely anthro island in the water would still count in my view.

i didn't saw, could you link it?

Here

I give you what I said earlier: The calc is based on a flawed premise. Tail's quote is about island dotting the ocean. Angel Island doesn't dot the ocean and is from the mainland itself, since it used to part of Mystic Ruins/Station Square. In my view it wouldn't apply to Tail's quote at all, even discounting that the planet is regularly shown as being inconsistent presentation wise.

If you mean about the ramifications of the quote, I once again don't think Angel Island applies to it. So most of your post wouldn't apply to it.

 

[Theuser789]

Then use those islands instead since they would apply to Tail's statement. Angel Island doesn't fit and therefore shouldn't be used.

So you agree with Sonic's planet being larger than normal? Because changing the islands won't change this fact.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So you agree with Sonic's planet being larger than normal? Because changing the islands won't change this fact.

I hold two opinions

• The calc is using an island that doesn't apply to the used statement
• The world has no real official indication that its larger than the IRL Earth and is relying on fan-calcs to get it that large

The first can be fixed with a recalc, the second one is about standards on what is acceptable as evidence for alternate planetary sizes. In my view it doesn't meet those standards, but if I'm outvoted then I would still think a recalc using another island would need to be used.

 

[Theuser789]

Going to be honest this feels like a change for the sake of changing, since swapping Angel Island with West Side Island will probably not change the calc that much, but hey. If a calc member wants to re-calc it.

 

[That_moron2]

Just want to drop that Angel Island is stated to be hidden in the clouds in Tailstube. And that's why you can't see it.

 

[omegabronic]

I hold two opinions

• The calc is using an island that doesn't apply to the used statement
• The world has no real official indication that its larger than the IRL Earth and is relying on fan-calcs to get it that large

The first can be fixed with a recalc, the second one is about standards on what is acceptable as evidence for alternate planetary sizes. In my view it doesn't meet those standards, but if I'm outvoted then I would still think a recalc using another island would need to be used.

for the first one, the end results doesn't change much, it might even get bigger since Westside is slightly bigger than Angel Island from what we can see

for the second one.....i would say that massive sized islands not being visible from space is a very clear cut indication that it is bigger, if even such massive sized objects can't be seen from space at all, then that is indication of it being a bigger sized, the calculation would be to find how much bigger it would need to be fro such massive objects to not be seen

That and what @CloverDragon03 said earlier about the anthro population being nearly exclusively living on said islands while the Human population living on the continents, living in such a way that most of the Humans never appear alongside the anthros on said islands

and also @ShakeResounding earlier about the Lost Hex, which is pretty much a country sized floating landmass, being hidden from the population of the planet even when it is just in the clouds distance from the surface

there are tons of indications that the planet is bigger, the Tailstube statement just gives us a reliable way to calculate how big it would be, which i believe it is fair game given the on the nose statement the calc is based on

 

[omegabronic]

Just want to drop that Angel Island is stated to be hidden in the clouds in Tailstube. And that's why you can't see it.

"hidden" because it is above them, thus when looking from bellow the clouds, it is hidden

 

[Theuser789]

Just want to drop that Angel Island is stated to be hidden in the clouds in Tailstube. And that's why you can't see it.

That's from people in the planet, not really referring to it when seen from space.

 

[Fireld]

Lost Hex, which is pretty much a country sized floating landmass

continent*

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Babe, wake up. New Sonic planet size calc just dropped

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah so uh... Does this solve the Angel Island problem?

 

[TheRustyOne]

I hold two opinions

• The calc is using an island that doesn't apply to the used statement
• The world has no real official indication that its larger than the IRL Earth and is relying on fan-calcs to get it that large

The first can be fixed with a recalc, the second one is about standards on what is acceptable as evidence for alternate planetary sizes. In my view it doesn't meet those standards, but if I'm outvoted then I would still think a recalc using another island would need to be used.

I agree with Qawsedf234 about this, especially the second part.

If Angel Island or West Side Island had an official size and it made the planet bigger, I'd feel comfortable with saying this is alright.

But the size of these islands are done via fan calculations, they aren't official. Also, Tails saying the islands can't be seen from orbit is a very vague phrase that doesn't really have much meaning. The orbit limit of Earth is around 1500000 kilometers from what I can find, as any point farther the Sun's gravity would be stronger than the Earth's.

So saying it can't be from orbit is incredibly vague that doesn't tell us much. Maybe West Island Island is visible at 100 km up and not visible from 10000 km away, that'd still mean you can't see it from orbit. The farthest a artificial satellite orbited the Earth was around 340000 km, which is still a very large distance.

The Death Egg's orbit around the planet could be close enough to see West Side Island for all we know, since orbit can go very far.

Using the same Scan in the calculation, assuming West Side Island is indeed 0.5 px small here like the calculation.

West Side Island = 25603.2 m (0.5 px)

Screen Height = 768 px

Angular Size = object size*panel height in pixels/[object height in pixels*2*tan(70deg/2)]

Distance = 25603.2*768/[0.5*2*tan(70deg/2)] = 28082042.1 m or 28082.0421 km.

That's about 8.2% the distance Spektr-R orbited the Earth. Meaning there is still many thousands of Kilometers we can go away from the planet and still be considered in orbit. As I said, maybe West Side Island could be visible from the Death Egg and still not visible from being further away in orbit. Tails statement would still work in this case.

If the Death Egg was any closer than 28082.0421 km West Side Island would be bigger than 0.5 px.

Let's assume the Death Egg orbits at the same height the Hubble Telescope orbits at, which is 525 km. We can use angular size to find out how big West Side Island would need to be in order for it to be 0.5 px small. I'm still using the same scan as in the calculation.

2*tan(70deg/2) *525*0.5/768 = 0.478657497 km

So even at an orbit of 525 km (Which is Low-Earth Orbit as well), West Side Island would be over 50x bigger than 0.5 px.

Yeah, I still don't agree with the planet being this large based on the current evidence being used. The size is being found by calculating the size of an island that doesn't have a stated size, and is relying on incredibly vague term such as orbit. Which varies greatly depending on where in orbit this means.

Tails didn't say how high up, he just vaguely said in orbit, which could be anywhere from 160 km to 340000 km on a planet the size of Earth. He didn't say Low-Earth Orbit, he didn't say the farthest orbit, he just said you can't see it in orbit.

 

[Theuser789]

Yes, it  can be whatever miles away from Earth, but where's the proof it is? When you hear "orbit" you think a certain number, not "farthest satellite from Earth". This is just overcomplicating the situation for the sake of it.

Hypotheticals don't mean anything. You can create doubt for anything by creating such hypothesis.

 

[omegabronic]

I agree with Qawsedf234 about this, especially the second part.

If Angel Island or West Side Island had an official size and it made the planet bigger, I'd feel comfortable with saying this is alright.

But the size of these islands are done via fan calculations, they aren't official.

we do calculations to find the size of things all the time here, i see no rule that says that we can't calc the size of structures, it is in fact, one of the most common things to do when calcing most feats, we pixel scale stuff based on size to find, for example, the size of a crater, or how big a explosion is, i don't know where are you getting that we can't calc the size of anything whatsoever to do a calculation

Also, Tails saying the islands can't be seen from orbit is a very vague phrase that doesn't really have much meaning. The orbit limit of Earth is around 1500000 kilometers from what I can find, as any point farther the Sun's gravity would be stronger than the Earth's.

So saying it can't be from orbit is incredibly vague that doesn't tell us much. Maybe West Island Island is visible at 100 km up and not visible from 10000 km away, that'd still mean you can't see it from orbit. The farthest a artificial satellite orbited the Earth was around 340000 km, which is still a very large distance.

Sonic unleashed shows us a very close orbit, and we still can't see any islands at all, not even Angel Island that is above the clouds in a high altitude, besides in any other shot of the planet we have we never see any island

The Death Egg's orbit around the planet could be close enough to see West Side Island for all we know, since orbit can go very far.

If Tails said "orbit", then it's an equal assumption to limit that to the "farthest satellite in our own orbit". This should reasonably mean from ANY point in orbit, because Tails mever implies such. Not to mention he has both the technology and intelligence far surpassing anything on our modern day planet, so what the current calculation assumes isn't unreasonable.

Using the same Scan in the calculation, assuming West Side Island is indeed 0.5 px small here like the calculation.

West Side Island = 25603.2 m (0.5 px)

Screen Height = 768 px

Angular Size = object size*panel height in pixels/[object height in pixels*2*tan(70deg/2)]

Distance = 25603.2*768/[0.5*2*tan(70deg/2)] = 28082042.1 m or 28082.0421 km.

That's about 8.2% the distance Spektr-R orbited the Earth. Meaning there is still many thousands of Kilometers we can go away from the planet and still be considered in orbit. As I said, maybe West Side Island could be visible from the Death Egg and still not visible from being further away in orbit. Tails statement would still work in this case.

If the Death Egg was any closer than 28082.0421 km West Side Island would be bigger than 0.5 px.

not really, we don't know if it would be visible even if came closer, we assumed 0.5 pixel in the death egg because it is the closest Orbit shot we have, we know that this is the absolute closest orbit shot because the stage right after Death Egg, that is Doomsday, happens directly above the atmosphere, where Sonic then enters the said atmosphere by simply traveling down a short distance, so for all intents and purposes, if it was closer then it wouldn't be on the orbit anymore

Let's assume the Death Egg orbits at the same height the Hubble Telescope orbits at, which is 525 km. We can use angular size to find out how big West Side Island would need to be in order for it to be 0.5 px small. I'm still using the same scan as in the calculation.

2*tan(70deg/2) *525*0.5/768 = 0.478657497 km

So even at an orbit of 525 km (Which is Low-Earth Orbit as well), West Side Island would be over 50x bigger than 0.5 px.

would the planet look the way it looks in the game with such distance? if not then your end of it being this close doesn't add up.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

In one hand, sure this planet is kind of stupidly huge... On the other, this is a somewhat cartoony fantasy series with stuff more unimaginably bonkers than an Earth bigger than Jupiter... Overall I don't mind the huge size, though I agree with my fellow staff members that it does kinda feel like people looking for bigger numbers (though that's a lot of communities in VSBW in truth )

When I was asked about the mountains I thought the calc was going to take into account the big one in the middle tbh (I was a bit surprised when the smaller mountain was used)... Mathematically it seemed fine, if nothing else. Its use for the story and other calcs though, might be a bit more muddy, though.

 

[CloverDragon03]

When I was asked about the mountains I thought the calc was going to take into account the big one in the middle tbh (I was a bit surprised when the smaller mountain was used)... Mathematically it seemed fine, if nothing else. Its use for the story and other calcs though, might be a bit more muddy, though.

I should've been more transparent on that, that's my fault. But the way I saw it was that all of these were mountains, and thus the smaller one would be the minimum mountain height. I thought that's how you saw it too

 

[Dark-Carioca]

With calcs involving multiple mountains like that I tend to use the taller ones visible so the results don't become much more bloated or bigger than it was perhaps intended for the feat. Honestly at a glance, compared to the beaches/coastline and the smaller ones, even that larger mountain could've been like only a few hundred meters, maybe.

The size of the planet wouldn't have changed much, anyway (I don't think, at least).

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think that's just a difference in philosophy tbh, as me personally, I use one of the smaller mountains in a case like that since the 609.6 meters figure is for the minimum height of a mountain

 

[Dalesean027]

What are the current arguments here?