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Sonic top tiers additions

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Solaris would blitz the hedgehogs with his attacks had they only been MFTL+. Super forms are variable from 4-A to 2-C so it's already "inconsistent" with other bosses.
 
Speaking of consistency, may I ask why Dark Gaia is 5-A, while Perfect Dark Gaia is 4-A?

Chip with his Gaia Mech fought both forms one immediately after the other, yet, he's only 4-A.

DG's 5-A key should be changed to a projection of himself, seeing how his true form isn't nearly as big as his projection.
 
Dark Gaia - breaks the Earth into pieces which was calculated at 7.2 yottatons - 5-A.

Perfect Dark Gaia - drains the Chaos Emeralds of negative energy and is capable of battling Super Sonic - 4-A.
 
Chp fought both regular Dark Gaia and Perfect Dark Gaia, and the mech itself was powered by the Crystals. Super Sonic also assisted Chip in his battle against PDG.

The issue is that the Dark Gaia that performed the 5-A feats was just a projection of him which you can clearly see by the size difference and the fact that he's made out of Dark Energy).

Also, Perfect Dark Gaia didn't drain the Emeralds. They were drained by regular Dark Gaia at the beginning of the game.
 
I think Dark 649 agreed to the low end of the Chaos Emeralds being 5-A a while back, given the 4-A satellite weapon seems inconsistent, and most of the Chaos Emeralds non Tier 2 feats are only 5-A.
 
DMB 1 said:
Chp fought both regular Dark Gaia and Perfect Dark Gaia, and the mech itself was powered by the Crystals. Super Sonic also assisted Chip in his battle against PDG.

The issue is that the Dark Gaia that performed the 5-A feats was just a projection of him which you can clearly see by the size difference and the fact that he's made out of Dark Energy).

Also, Perfect Dark Gaia didn't drain the Emeralds. They were drained by regular Dark Gaia at the beginning of the game.
Click to expand...
My fault, I misremembered when Dark Gaia became Perfect Dark Gaia. Chip fought Perfect Dark Gaia as Gaia Colossus, which was powered up by the Emeralds.

Still don't agree with 5-A low end super forms because otherwise Eggman would have no reason to go after them if the Final Egg Blaster wasn't inferior to them, and Sonic Battle came out before Sonic Rush which was the first 2-C feat.
 
Actually, now that I remember, the temples actually restored the emeralds from the energy that Dark Gaia drained. Don't know if that changes anything.

Also, I mean, since Eggman knows the crap that the Chaos Emeralds can do at their full power, I don't see why at their absolute weakest, the Emeralds would be 4-A.
 
If we're lowering Super Sonic's weakest to 5-A, like actually doing it, we could try to list all three tiers.

"At least 5-A, likely 4-A, possibly 2-C" or something along those lines. I remember Cal being fine with doing that. Not sure if we should actually lower Super Sonic to 5-A, I'm neutral on the subject, but that would be the next best thing to appease both sides.
 
The reason why 4-A is there is solely because Chaos Emeralds > Final Egg Blaster. Though Space Colony Ark being said to "pierce stars" is still in the 4-C range by itself.
 
I remember that. It was in the japanese version, which I believe we treat as primary. Unless things changed from a few years ago.
 
Without a calc, I'm honestly unsure if it'd bypass Dark Gaia's feat. Piercing is different from outright destruction, which is why it's not even star level, and we aren't sure if it goes all the way through, though it's a reasonable assumption to say that it did go all the way through.
 
A star is waaaaayyyyyyy more massive than a planet though. Heck, you still need about 80 Jupiter masses just to get a red dwarf.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I think Dark 649 agreed to the low end of the Chaos Emeralds being 5-A a while back, given the 4-A satellite weapon seems inconsistent, and most of the Chaos Emeralds non Tier 2 feats are only 5-A.
Click to expand...
Yes, At least 5-A to 4-A to 2-C for Super Sonic Shadow, Silver and Blaze while at least 5-A to 4-A for the other Super char. would be ok: Trying to remove the 4-A part from them just because it only scales to Final Egg Blaster is wrong since Eggman built that weapon specifically to get the Emeralds, which are stronger than said weapon, same for 2-C feats which happened and not just once.
 
Here's the thing, what would "At least 5-A" even be scaled to?

Perfect Chaos was stomped by Super Sonic and later got beaten by base Sonic in Generations.

Base Dark Gaia is "At least 5-A" and Super Sonic fought Perfect Dark Gaia.
 
I'm willing to compromise on "At least MFTL+". It's important to note that very few characters can get that tiering, so it's special.

Also, no matter what this result is, Blaze, Egg Wizard, and the other one get downgraded to MFTL+. As Sera said, the only time they can be argued to be a speed with an i is Solaris.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Here's the thing, what would "At least 5-A" even be scaled to?
Perfect Chaos was stomped by Super Sonic and later got beaten by base Sonic in Generations.

Base Dark Gaia is "At least 5-A" and Super Sonic fought Perfect Dark Gaia.
Click to expand...
Perfect Dark Gaia wasn't boosted by that much when he transformed. He just got the upper hand over Chip, and the two were still able to beat him toghether.
 
The real cal howard said:
What Dark said is what I completely agree on. Though, most bosses would drop to solid "At least 5-A".
Click to expand...
I said that at least 5-A to 4-A for the other Super char. would be ok, which i know you disagree with it because it refers to all the char. that fought a Super Empowered char. except Perfect Chaos, who was stated to be powered by the negative energy of the emeralds [the weaker power source] while the others did not.
 
I think Blaze, Egg Wizard, and Egg Salamander should scale but if worst is to come, I'll accept them being downgraded to MFTL+ as long as Sonic, Shadow, and Silver get immeasurable speed scaling to Solaris.
 
@Dark. I am okay with all other Super characters like Knuckes and Tails getting it. I'm taking like, Black Doom or Biolizard.

...I don't know Sonic characters well enough.
 
Super Knuckles, Tails, Mighty and Ray are the regular Super Forms powered from the emeralds.

Super Mecha Sonic is a regular Super Form like the ones above since was powered by the Master Emerald, which is supposed to neutralize the energy of the emeralds.

Ultimate Gemerl was also powered by the emeralds, and is capable of freezing and blowing Super Sonic away with its arsenal of weapons, Sonic needed Eggman help to subdue him [granted the dev. forgot that Eggman cannot breath in space].

Metal Overlord had Super Sonic, Tails and Knuckles commenting how stong he was, Eggman was initially not sure if the emeralds power would have been enough to stop him.

Perfect Dark Gaia fought Super Sonic and Gaia Colossus, which was harnessing the energy from Gaia Temples which in turn were harnessing the energy of the Chaos Emeralds, the battle strained Super Sonic but could have been to Dark Gaia previously stealing his energy alongside the Werehog form.

Devil Doom fought Super Shadow, it didn't seem a big deal for him but the battle likely lasted for some time since Shadow canonically heard Eggman telling that he is the real one and not a robot, which accours after some of time.

The others which are Mother Wisp, Phantom King and Super Egg Robot can hit or move Super Sonic, but didn't seem a big deal for him.

The Finalizard was merged with the Space Colony Ark and fought Super Sonic and Shadow, according to Sonic X the being was easily defeated by the two, however Shadow falled into earth after the battle.

And then there's Super Imperator IX, who was powered by large amounts of Chaos Energy, is listed as a Super Form but Sonic easily defeated him gameplay wise.

I think all the ones mentioned above P. Dark Gaia are def. at least 5-A to 4-A.
 
That wasn't Ultimate Emerl, what you're thinking of is Ultimate G-emerl from Sonic Advance 3.

Shadow was having trouble maintaining his super form against Finalhazard which was why he fell to Earth.
 
Arent Emerl and Gemerl confirmed to be the same robot? If so Ultimate Emerl and Gemerl should be 4-A, just that Ultimate Emerl was hit with Plot power by Sonic.
 
Dr. Eggman created him from the data from Emerl, essentially making him a reincarnation of said Gizoid, but is not the same individual.
 
Ultimate Emerl got overwhelmed after absorbing power from the Chaos Emeralds and Final Egg Blaster, weakening him and that's why base Sonic was able to beat him. He shouldn't be 4-A. G-emerl is already 4-A.
 
Basically, anyone powered by the Emeralds should have the multiple tiers. Those who aren't (and Dark Gaia) should be solid 5-A imo.
 
Tier 2 Super States (Sonic,Shadow,Silver,& Blaze) & anything that combats them (Egg Wizard/Salamander & Time Eater) should still get a possibly/likely immeasurable at the very least IMO.
 
Minor nitpick, but where does "infinite" lifting strength for Time Eater even come from?

Also (Able to send points in time to a white zone of non-existence) should be listed as BFR.
 
So the last mani thing we have to talk about is speed, right?

And yes, just like Shadow, I am also questioning was does Time Eater and Super Sonic's infinite lifting strength comes from.
 
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