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Sonic top tiers additions

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Variable Tier coined by this very wiki, & the VERY game mechanic implied advice/conversations shouldn't be taken at face value or used to determine the validity of a characters speed in most cases as anyone MHS+ couldn't even have normal conversation by that logic.
 
Another difference is that MHS+ or even Massively FTL+ are still finite numbers; Immeasurable literally means higher infinity; or is literally infinitely times faster than those with Infinite speed. There should just be a bending of all Space-Time or everything should be 100% frozen if both characters are really that fast. Base Amy or Base Tails clearly don't have Infinite or Immeasurable talking speed.
 
Well then,if anyone who's ever been rated infinite/immeasurable has had a conversation with someone who isn't,they need to all get revised.
 
False equivalency, it just means they can purposely slow down. In fact, you just proved my point that neither Sonic nor Solaris were moving at Infinite let alone Immeasurable speed during the entire fight then.
 
Except it's not game mechanics, it's a legit part of the scene/story.
 
Except the guide makes a clear difference between the rift the rest of the cast is in & the void where the actual Solaris battle takes place,it's all kinds of interpretive TBH.
 
I just reviewed the conversations,no one adresses the Super Trio directly,they're actually talking/narrating amongst themselves. So that's out.
 
Not only that the super trio also talks over Eggman as if they are having their own conversation. This can be chalked up to bad design, but I'm still gonna point this out.
 
If the Super Trio can talk to each other than they can perceive the Past/Future,a requirement for immeasurable according to Dragon.
 
Matt can probably explain it better than I can; so I'll wait for him to elaborate on it.
 
Solaris was not only stated to destroy dimensions, but destroy timelines as well. That is something 2-A characters would do. I can also bring up time eater, who can erase all time and space, which DOES imply there are infinite universes.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Except that's only Travel speed, not combat speed. Zeno-sama doesn't have Immeasurable speed via one-shotting Zamasu. The attacks are more like AoE combined with hax rather than speed.
Click to expand...
Zamasu only had to be destroyed in one timeline. Not the same as Solaris who is omnipresent across it.
 
Jayyoyo said:
Solaris was not only stated to destroy dimensions, but destroy timelines as well. That is something 2-A characters would do. I can also bring up time eater, who can erase all time and space, which DOES imply there are infinite universes.
Click to expand...
He was but that doesn't make him 2-A. You need proof that infinite universes exist. It's never stated how many timelines there are.
 
This thread right now is focused on determining whether Sonic should be upgraded to Immeasurable or downgraded to simply Massively FTL+. Seems even split with the voters, but most staff agree with them being downgraded. Though, there does seem to be circled arguments.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
This thread tight now is focused on determining whether Sonic should be upgraded to Immeasurable or downgraded to simply Massively FTL+. Seems even split with the voters, but most staff agree with them being downgraded. Though, there does seem to be circled arguments.
Click to expand...
Pretty much.
 
@AD INFINITUM 444 Dark649 agrees with immeasurable Sonic though.

Plus, the main argument against it is that with Solaris it's an "outlier" even though that's a flawed premise.

First, this is the definition of an outlier:

"An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power."

Is the Solaris speed feat "completely and irreconcilably inconsistent?"

Lets have a look at the other tier 2 feats.

Time Eater:

Originated from White Space, an environment that lacks space and time. Other than the obvious outlier of base Sonic running around in there, objects and characters in there are depicted as being frozen and colorless. The boss fight also takes place in destroyed space-time.

Egg Salamander:

Boss fight takes place in a rift separating the space-time continuums of Sonic's and Blaze's dimensions.

Egg Wizard:

Can move and function after space-time is destroyed and was going to create a multi-dimensional Eggmanland encompassing Sonic's and Blazes's dimensions. Its power source, the Power of the Stars supports the existence of parallel dimensions.

This actually sounds fairly consistent as an immeasurable character can function without space-time. Not seeing anything here that contradicts immeasurable showings with Solaris.
 
I searched his name throughout the thread, and I've never heard him explicitly say he agrees with Immeasurable. Still, Time Eater I heard is being downgraded to Massively FTL+ since moving inside a void doesn't qualify as infinite speed. Again, moving forward and backward in time at will doesn't qualify for Immeasurable speed, as even characters who are simply FTL have done that. An Immeasurable speed character can perceive time however they wish to; whether it's frozen, accelerated, decelerated, forward, or backward. Which Sonic and the others have shown clear limits regarding that.

For example, Base form Lavos isn't Immeasurable
 
Dark649 actually upgraded Sonic, Shadow, and Silver to immeasurable, but then reverted the edits since there was disagreement going on.

Moving in a void can give you infinite speed if it's a type 3 void and in some cases type 2 according to the Timeless Voids Standards page.

Moving forward and backwards in time at will does qualify for immeasurable speed, however it may get a separate category and not be combat applicable such as in the cases of Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis) or Superman (Pre-Crisis).

As mentioned previously, Sonic, Shadow, and Silver were able to hold conversation with each other while fighting Solaris in different time periods.

With Lavos, those are clones existing in other timelines while there's only one Solaris. It's his state of being as a transcendent life form that allows him to exist across past, present, and future.
 
SSBXeno573 said:
@Shadow

Moving in a void is infinite speed, not Immeasurable. Fighting or moving in a type 1 void isn't anything special.
Click to expand...
Except I literally claimed neither of those? In fact here's what I said:

"Moving in a void can give you infinite speed if it's a type 3 void and in some cases type 2 according to the Timeless Voids Standards page."

Immeasurables can move where there's 0 time as they aren't limited by it to begin with, so showing other instances where they can function in areas lacking space-time actually supports it if there's an immeasurable speed feat.
 
I'd like to mention some things.

First off, moving in a void is infinite speed.

Second, none of the hedgehogs could defeat Solaris alone, if they had immeasurable speed only one would be needed to fight Solaris because they would go to the 3 points in time simultaneously.

Third, Solaris is described as a transcendent life form that exists in the past present and future. Why would Solaris even has immeasurable speed when he's omnipresent through time? It's either immeasurable speed or omnipresence.
 
@Zamasu Chan

1) Already said.

2) Solaris doesn't just exist in three points in time. He exists all across it. Destroying him in all time periods simultaneously = you need immeasurable speed to accomplish it. It taking more than one super state to accomplish it doesn't negate scaling. It just means Solaris is a bit stronger but Sonic, Shadow, and Silver still had to be 2-C and immeasurable to keep up with and defeat him.

3) Solaris is omnipresent across time but not space. It's just temporal omnipresence.
 
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