Sonic the Hedgehog vs Homura Akemi

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I was expecting homu to stomp

I still think she does tho

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah you said that already

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It's just lol mindhax vs lol holy manipulation at this point.

 

[Schnee_One]

So.....

What wins out?

Or is that Incon? Which would honestly make my head spin

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

It's not incon. It's literally one side saying one stomps and the other saying the other stomps.

 

[Schnee_One]

Which is Incon if you can't tell which side Stomps

But I still want to know what the general consensus is

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Actuuuuuuallyl


wait


Don't both passively incap the other? So yeah, it actually is incon

 

[Schnee_One]

IDK

 

[Kaltias]

No, it isn't.

If one side stomps but you can't determine which one, it's a stomp regardless. It simply happens that the two sides can't agree

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I'm thinking Sonic will nullify Homura since he's used it on Enerjak while he was controlling Knuckles's mind, plus he's still kinda a lot stronger.

Of course unlike with Enerjak where he didn't want to hurt Knuckles, Sonic has no reason to hold back here.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

@Kaltias


Keep this open. Even if it's a stomp either way, this is an interesting debate.

 

[Schnee_One]

No, it isn't.

If one side stomps but you can't determine which one, it's a stomp regardless. It simply happens that the two sides can't agree

You just agreed with me right there

"if you can't tell which side Stomps"

 

[RKGenki]

Didn't we previously agree that the mindhax will work? Expecially considering that it seems he resisted Enerjak's thanks to his Holy manip. If he gets affected it's over, regardless if she gets weakened or not

 

[Schnee_One]

Not everyone from the looks of it

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Also

Wasn't Madoka one of those "Infinite minds merged into one" thing? So Homu's mindhax probably works, ye

 

[RKGenki]

I could have worded it better, but I didn't say it was enough to resist Homura's mindhax.

What I did say is that the holy manipulation can weaken her.

Shadow himself said it wasn't enough to resist

 

[RKGenki]

@Zach I already mentioned that

 

[Schnee_One]

Whelp, I'm confused

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Whelp, I'm confused

So am I, honestly.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Didn't we previously agree that the mindhax will work? Expecially considering that it seems he resisted Enerjak's thanks to his Holy manip. If he gets affected it's over, regardless if she gets weakened or not

Sonic resisted Enerjak's mindhax in base, that holy manipulation is more effective in Sonic's 2-A keys.

 

[Kaltias]

You just agreed with me right there

"if you can't tell which side Stomps"

I didn't. "Inconclusive because idk" isn't a thing.

This isn't a case of both having equal chances.

If mindhax after being weakened isn't enough Sonic curbs.

If it's still too much for his resistance Homura does

 

[RKGenki]

That still isn't enough to resist, you even said that. And Homu as a 7-B has already a better feat than Enerjak

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Chaos Knuckles does perceive a larger multiverse than Madoka though. It's not just Sonic's and Mega Man's multiverse but there's also Illumina's universe sized dreamworlds, each are made from the dreams of every being in the multiverse. The Chaos Force encompasses this.

Of course, the much weaker Hyper Knuckles resists 2-A mindhax but that still didn't stop Enerjak from corrupting his mind and possessing him, turning him into his avatar. Not claiming it's better but I'm simply throwing it out there.

Even if Homura's mindhax is better, I still don't think that stops her from having that nullified along with the rest of her energies.

 

[RKGenki]

An infinitesimal part of Madoka (one LoC assistant) perceives the entirety of 2 multiverses though, and there are an unknown amount of them that compose only a part of Madoka. It's not just one multiverse. I still think there isn't enough to say it can null a mind hax quite a bit stronger than what it has shown to weaken, considering Homu did that as a 7-B

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

For some reason I have the urge to make the stomp match that is Apocalymon vs Knuckles.....

Btw Type 1 Abstraction is odd to me honestly. So you need to show being able to touch abstracts to do literally anything to them?

 

[RKGenki]

A type 1 abstract is literally the abstraction itself, so if per say, one is a type 1 abstract that embodies a concept, unless you have feats of affecting concepts directly you can't affect it

You can still affect eventual avatars, but that wouldn't matter much to the main self

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Unless you're higher-dimensional relative to it, of course

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I've seen some Madoka Magica before so I'm aware about the other nonexistent multiverse in it.

What I was saying is that Archie's is much bigger than that and neither multiverse is non-existent, so there's more to perceive, since both Mega Man's and Sonic's multiverses have infinite universes and on top of that, all of those dreamworlds coming from Illumina's Maginaryworld.

Thing is, Homura has no resistance to such nullification, it works faster because it's actually passive vs subconscious, and even Kal said it would work.

 

[Kaltias]

Type 1 abstracts are pure non-corporeal abstractions.

You need feats of affecting the abstraction because otherwise you aren't affecting them to begin with.

It's the same as needing non physical interaction to punch ghosts, but with abstractions

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Welp Huanglongmon vs Knuckles is a stomp...

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

OOF. When an Archie stomps a Digimon.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Minomon VS Sonic?

 

[RKGenki]

I didn't say it wouldn't work, I said it isn't enough. On Knuckles it only weakened the effect of the mind hax, it didn't nullify it outright. And I know the multiverse in Archie is bigger, but what perceives 2 multiverses (one being nonexistent doesn't matter much, considering UM already manifested in it when it still existed) is just a minimal fraction of Madoka

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Minomon VS Sonic? </div>

Minomon can't get past that type 8 Sonic has so Sonic stomps.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I didn't say it wouldn't work, I said it isn't enough. On Knuckles it only weakened the effect of the mind hax, it didn't nullify it outright. And I know the multiverse in Archie is bigger, but what perceives 2 multiverses (one being nonexistent doesn't matter much, considering UM already manifested in it when it still existed) is just a minimal fraction of Madoka

Because Enerjak resisted it. Homura doesn't have resistance.

 

[RKGenki]

So it worked on Enerjak... who resisted it?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It was affecting him but it didn't nullify him like it was supposed to do, that's a feat of resistance.

 

[RKGenki]

Can I see a feat of it completely nullifying stuff? And the aura directly affecting a concept and not a manifestation/avatar?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Yeah, Perfect Chaos, which is mentioned where Sonic was fighting Enerjak.

Enerjak is a concept, his avatars are just him corrupting Echidnas through possession and affecting Chaos Force beings through their manifestations is already a thing.

 

[MYHERO]

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