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Sonic the Hedgehog CRT

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Solaris was defeated because his acausality was overhyped, especially considering he was defeated by having his flame blown out in the past.
 
Neither of those examples apply to Solaris remotely.If harming it in one time period harmed it everywhen else then having to defeat it in all points in time simultaneously would've been absolutely unnecessary.
 
RotofBots said:
@Shadow
You didn't really debunk it, however. You're debunk relies on theory-crafting and assumptions that are never stated or expressed in the series.
Click to expand...
Time holes reach into different points in time.

Time Eater uses them against the Super Sonics in the boss fight. That's not "theory-crafting" or making assumptions, that's using actual evidence in the game.
 
@RotofBots

90% of this Wiki's content is based off of theory-crafting & arbitrary rules that have little to no empirical stance in their own series.Don't even start.
 
Dude, you're jumping to conclusions just from the simple fact that he used Warping-Arm. Time-holes can also reach into different space.

Your assumptions go as follows:

Time Eater uses Warping Arm -> Assumes Sonic is in a different point of time even though Time Eater is directly in front of him -> Assumes that Sonic is traveling through time despite nothing else indicative of this -> Sonic gets Immeasurable speed.
 
The real cal howard said:
The most you can say for Solaris is that the hedgehogs needed one to beat him in the past, one in the now, and one in the future. Saying that Solaris had to be defeated in every single infinite point in time is bs.
Click to expand...
A being that is omnipresent across time would exist in every single point of time.

Past, present, and future covers all of time.
 
I agree with MYHERO. This is supposed to be a civilized community, it isn't right to accuse other people of "Theory crafting." Especially the comment that says we're "Entirely based on theory crafting and arbitrary rules." It's not, it's based elaborate and complex details on how Vs Debating actually centers around. We don't blame people for not quite understanding every principle or even disagreeing at that, but what we don't tolerate is people instigating drama or reacting overdramatically.
 
"The now" is constantly marching forward though,one planck instant passes & the Future becomes the Present & Present becomes the Past. :eek:
 
@AD No one is the hero here. What I was trying to say is that we all have the potential to turn this debate into a toxic mess, and it's a reminder of that risk. Him bringing this to light and agreeing with me doesn't make him the moral saint, he is merely agreeing that it can turn even worse.
 
@Cal thanks but I've been self conscious about how much lecturing I've been doing lately. I was holding off on this thread for a while, but I could not stop myself. I get scared that it can be interpreted virtue signaling which isnt my intent. Its not a way to make me feel like I'm better than people, but rather to cover up my insecurities with me being a bad vs debater.
 
Everyone's both good and evil at the same time okay, but that's completely off topic.

Anyway, I already know of the time Ad Infinitum attacked me on My wall after 5-A base form Sonic was permanently concluded and Discussion rule added 6 months ago. Anyway, back to the main topic.
 
Okay now I'm stepping out of here. This isn't about me. See ya later guys, and AD don't be so hard on yourself, you're a better debater than me from what I've seen from you.
 
C'mon, guys, we don't need to tear out ourselves or others. Keep in mind that this is essentially a speed-only revision (not to insult you, Zamasu Chan, but I think AP should be for another thread). As soon as this is wrapped up, it's smooth sailing.

plus it's almost Christmas, don't earn coal.
 
The Warping Arm is seriously just Time Eater opening a wormhole and punching through it. That's it.

The attack "bypassing the laws of space and time" is just a fancy addition to its description. Besides, if you put it like that, any type of Space-Time Manipulation does.

Time Eater having Immeasurable speed also contradicts how he actually needs portals to travel through time and to other timelines in the first place.

And the way the blog "debunks it" is just a very iffy extrapolation of what's going on and overthinking it.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I'm not sure what's even b eing discussed here. Sonic has zero Immeasurable Speed feats.
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I'd like to enquire. In Sonic Mania, Super Sonic is shown flying in the void, a place where the concept of time shouldn't exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXcE_KE-J80 1:44

Is this by any means viable?

Also, the Sonic CD manual stated that Sonic had to time travel using his " unrivaled speed ", right? In addition, when it's talking about the Time Posts, it doesn't talk about Sonic. It refers to the player, not Sonic.

CD
 
I'd like to enquire. In Sonic Mania, Super Sonic is shown flying in the void, a place where the concept of time shouldn't exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXcE_KE-J80 1:44

Is this by any means viable?

Also, the Sonic CD manual stated that Sonic had to time travel using his " unrivaled speed ", right? In addition, when it's talking about the Time Posts, it doesn't talk about Sonic. It refers to the player, not Sonic.

CD
The phantom ruby was distorting time and space around it, that's hax not speed.

Sonic needs time posts to time travel and even basic FTL speeds can allow that.
 
Travelling to the future alone, yeah. But to the past, as well? I'd beg to differ. I mean, Flash is immeasurable for running through time.

And wasn't it a space that Robotnik and Sonic were sent to?
 
@Stamina I don't really think that is a legitimate immeasurable speed feat considering the fact that you aren't moving beyond time itself, you're moving through it and you can do that just fine with having minimum FTL speed.

Not sure about that atm, you may need to wait for more responses to elaborate on that part.
 
Even if Classic Sonic's time travel was legit it would still be a massive outlier. And they aren't in space, they're In Eggman's base but the phantom ruby is causing spatial distortions
 
Could it be argued that Classic Sonic simply has had no other reason to use such speed? Perhaps that's his speed cap. Sonic doesn't use his true speed in the games, after all. I don't even think he's done it canonically, either.
 
Stamina Control said:
Could it be argued that Classic Sonic simply has had no other reason to use such speed? Perhaps that's his speed cap. Sonic doesn't use his true speed in the games, after all. I don't even think he's done it canonically, either.
Click to expand...
"Never shown his true speed" can't outrun a black hole.
 
@Stamina Dude, that's what just I said and I explained what is wrong with that.

@Dark It's actually both since Time Travel can be done through various methods: Speed, creating anything in the form of/that works like a time machine, or through creating portals to an earlier/later time period.
 
Dark649 said:
You don't need FTL speed to time travel, it's just the ability.
Click to expand...
What do you mean? Sonic's feat was due to his speed; it's not an ability.


Sonic Colours' black hole feat contradicts most of the others; this one, for example. Same with his warp speed in Adventure. Since these were before Colours (and it only happened once, Sonic has gone far above this in previous games) could the black hole feat be an outlier?

I am genuinely confused.
 
Time Travel is like Teleportation. It's just an ability; does not automatically mean Immeasurable or Infinite respectively. And also doesn't even mean FTL ot Speed of Light. Even characters with normal human speed can have those abilities. Though, travelling through time via movement can be FTL, but there has to be consistency with 0 contradictions to qualify for Immeasurable speed. Characters need to have an undefined reaction time in order to actually be Immeasurable.
 
Alot of characters that qualify for infinite or immeasurable have contradictions of being tagged or percieved by characters with finite speed or not moving anywhere or anywhen with every movement they make.
 
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