Sonic the Hedgehog CRT

[Dark649]

It was discussed that Eggman visior and Dark Gaia eye are far less durable than the rest of ther parts/body, also Classic Sonic in Forces has 0 Tier 6 feats because the Chaos 0 Clone is far weaker than the original since the most weaker Resistance member can defeat it, as shown in the cutscene where the Resistance bests the Infinite char. recreations.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

It was discussed that Eggman visior and Dark Gaia eye are far less durable than the rest of ther parts/body, also Classic Sonic in Forces has 0 Tier 6 feats because the Chaos 0 Clone is far weaker than the original since the most weaker Resistance member can defeat it, as shown in the cutscene where the Resistance bests the Infinite char. recreations.

When did I ever say that Classic Sonic should be upgraded? Just because I'm giving an example doesn't mean anything.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Bump

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Bump

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Bump

 

[Dark649]

I wonder when the Infinite Speed on them will be changed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Unsure...

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Infinite speed isn't the only problem...

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

You're right. They should be 2-B & Immeasurable

 

[MYHERO]

AD was that a joke?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Tiering stays.

Infinites should be immeasurable yes.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

@MYHERO

I'm being serious,it's just that many are opposed to the idea.

@Shadow

Maginaryworld is ajacent to the rest of the verse,not seperate. They should be 2-B.

 

[Genericstickman]

I'm up for possibly 2-B but not full on 2-B

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Sonic technically has one 2-C feat and that's from the Egg Wizard.

Solaris phase 1 should be low 2-C, we was taking a while to destroy one space time and the light shells were said to be anchoring him. It makes sense because when Solaris becomes phase 2 he's much stronger and no longer needs the armor, if he did then he'd just have a new set. It's quite simple, phase 1 is low 2-C and phase 2 is 2-C. However this doesn't mean the hedgehogs jump tiers in battle, not only would it make no sense but for the rest of the battle they only attack his weak spot.

Next is the feat from Sonic Rush, I don't get why it's so hard to understand that this fear in particular is low 2-C. Two strong forces were taking a while to destroy two universes, the chaos emeralds were destroying one universe and the sol emeralds were destroying the other.

I'm gonna be pretty blunt for a sec. The profiles for Sonic characters are quite bias and makes no sense. Sonic should not have a variable tier because of the "Turn Thoughts into Power" thing. It's quite fallacious to really on that when the chaos emeralds have shown limits. Super forms have shown time and time again that they require help for some bosses. If the chaos emeralds truly matched the power of their opponents then only one would be necessary. There's also nothing wrong with two tiers with a huge gap between each other, fleet way Sonic is 5-A and 2-C, why can't this be the case with Game Sonic? My point on the scaling is there are only 2-C statements and low 2-C feats (for god sake there are 3 of them)

 

[MYHERO]

Yeah let's save 2-B for another thread. This ain't up about upgrading, it's about downgrading.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Sonic technically has one 2-C feat and that's from the Egg Wizard.

Solaris phase 1 should be low 2-C, we was taking a while to destroy one space time and the light shells were said to be anchoring him. It makes sense because when Solaris becomes phase 2 he's much stronger and no longer needs the armor, if he did then he'd just have a new set. It's quite simple, phase 1 is low 2-C and phase 2 is 2-C. However this doesn't mean the hedgehogs jump tiers in battle, not only would it make no sense but for the rest of the battle they only attack his weak spot.

Really, now you're saying Solaris's core has Low 2-C durability? The reasoning for this is heavily fallacious, Solaris would consume all timelines and dimensions, he is 2-C, simple as that.

Next is the feat from Sonic Rush, I don't get why it's so hard to understand that this fear in particular is low 2-C. Two strong forces were taking a while to destroy two universes, the chaos emeralds were destroying one universe and the sol emeralds were destroying the other.

Wrong, the Sol Emeralds were causing both Sonic's and Blaze's universes to merge. That is again, 2-C.

I'm gonna be pretty blunt for a sec. The profiles for Sonic characters are quite bias and makes no sense. Sonic should not have a variable tier because of the "Turn Thoughts into Power" thing. It's quite fallacious to really on that when the chaos emeralds have shown limits. Super forms have shown time and time again that they require help for some bosses. If the chaos emeralds truly matched the power of their opponents then only one would be necessary. There's also nothing wrong with two tiers with a huge gap between each other, fleet way Sonic is 5-A and 2-C, why can't this be the case with Game Sonic? My point on the scaling is there are only 2-C statements and low 2-C feats (for god sake there are 3 of them)

Having help doesn't negate scaling. You still need 2-C AP to physically harm a 2-C.

Replies in bold.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

1. There are characters that have durability that's unquantifiably lower than their AP and you do realize that Sonaris has force field creation right?

2. You need to back up your claim that it was just the sol emeralds, as soon as the Sonic uses the chaos emeralds to reduce the negative around each other. The Chaos and Sol emeralds were repeatedly stated to cause the destruction of both worlds, the universes even stop being destroyed because Sonic was able to remove one negative effect that stopped the destruction. If it was just the Sol emeralds, which Sonic has no control of, then giving the Chaos emeralds the ability to be near the Sol emeralds would do nothing. And nothing implies merging, you keep referring to the void at the end of the game even though we don't see any universes moving. Sonic and Blaze are even overwhelmed by the sheer nature of the universes fixing themselves and couldn't even resist the pull of his universe.

3. I'm referring to the inconsistencies of variable tiers not just AP.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

1) Except there's no evidence of Solaris being a glass cannon. The core is not less durable than the rest of his body, the hedgehogs went for the core to stop Solaris's consciousness.

2) The power of the Sol Emeralds interacting with the Chaos Emeralds was causing the two universes to merge, thus it's 2-C. Also, first you say "nothing implies merging" and then "Sonic and Blaze are even overwhelmed by the sheer nature of the universes fixing themselves and couldn't even resist the pull of his universe." Which is it, because the second sentence definitely implies that they were merging.

3) Except it's not? They're still granted power proportional to the enemy in order to defeat them. Having help is irrelevant.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

1. It's a vulnerable weak point by your logic that would make Classic Sonic high 6-A.

2. It doesn't even matter if it's mergeing or destroying when the outcome is at best baseline 2-C.

3. It's not just help from other Super Forms. The feat from Sonic rush directly contradicts any higher scaling because it's the uncontrolled power of both emerald sets. If the emeralds are really 2-C why does it take so long for two sets of emeralds to destroy two parallel worlds? The power of both of them are uncontrolled during these cataclysmic events and while uncontrolled there's no holding back their true powers. So both emeralds are performing a 2-C process with low 2-C results. You're literally the only one that's defending this convoluted mess called power scaling.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

1) Dude, what does Classic Sonic have to do with this lol? The core isn't weaker than the rest of his body, they targeted it to stop his consciousness.

2) Which is still 2-C.

3) "A 2-C process with Low 2-C results."

Ok, that doesn't even make any sense. A 2-C process is a 2-C feat.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The reason why I bought up Classic Sonic is because he hit the weak point of a High 6-A machine.

2 things destroying two universes is low 2-C, they're just farther in the tier, I've heard this in past threads many times before. It makes no sense to be baseline 2-C when not even one set of emeralds can perform it and two take so long? You fail to directly address this because you keep on vaguely saying it's two universes.

Also why is there such an extreme lack of input? This is basically going nowhere and nobody is supporting either side.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Classic Sonic isn't even scaled to feats in the Modern era so that's pretty irrelevant.

No, because destroying two universes is 2-C. Low 2-C x 2 does not equal 2-C. The universes merging is pretty much a side effect of the emeralds interacting.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

2-B and Immeasurable won't be accepted, been discussed here and there and rejected by most of the staff. But yeah, Infinite speed were probably going to get downgraded to Massively FTL+.

 

[Genericstickman]

I mean Archie characters scale to Solaris and his Immeasurable speed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We're talking about game sonic, not Archie. Don't derail with that version please; they are different continuities.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

DarkDragon, you should address the point being made rather than claim he's derailing.

What he's saying is that if Archie characters have immeasurable speed scaling to Solaris, then there shouldn't be a problem with scaling the game characters to Solaris as the game version also has immeasurable speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The difference is that it's a massive outlier in Game Sonic's case. Super Sonic very consistently showcases very finite levels of speed throughout the series. In fact, they never actually fought a peak conditioned Solaris at all. Solaris was anchored in a way he could never travel nor fight through time.

Additionally, Matthew Schroeder may have more to add to that.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Yeah, those cases of him showing finite speed are when he's 4-A. This is an instance of him being 2-C.

Solaris is omnipresent through time, any movement or reaction he makes would have immeasurable speed. The hedgehogs did fight a peak conditioned Solaris, in Phase 2, as it turns out Zamasu Chan is actually right about the part with the light shells anchoring Solaris in Phase 1. In order for the hedgehogs to beat Solaris through conventional means of attacking, they needed to have moved at immeasurable speeds.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not in all instances; even the Tier 2 beings such as Egg Wizard or Time Eater don't have any Infinite let alone Immeasurable speeds. Solaris is literally the only case, and we don't use reverse power scaling for the others.

Solaris being anchored by the light shells means he lacked the space to move. Again, Matt and Weekly have explained it better on other threads in the past. There was hax that nullified Immeasurable speeds and was literally frozen to where he can no longer time travel or react as said speeds.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Time Eater should also be immeasurable, I explained this in a blog linked in the OP.

"There was hax that nullified immeasurable speeds."

No hax was used in the fight at all, and Solaris is omnipresent across time. Sonic rams into Solaris, Shadow throws his Spear of Light, and Silver shoots Solaris's meteors back using telekinesis. Phase 2 Solaris is unrestricted.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

What is this baseless hax you speak of,Dragon? Most of these feats are extremely interpretive,you're seemingly speaking as if your theories are empirical fact without room for subjectivity or debate. Staff or not,you're gonna need more concrete evidence.

 

[RotofBots]

Time Eater definitely doesn't have Immeasurable feats of his own. After reading the blog you have, the only real Immeasurable speed feat is his warping arm. And that's being very generous as we see him use portals with Warping arm, not speed alone.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

If Solaris were anchored in the manner everyone is claiming than Super Silver's Attacks wouldn't affect his past selves from that perspective.If you get shot in the future...you don't get harmed in the past unless the attack was immeasurable to begin with.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Time Eater definitely doesn't have Immeasurable feats of his own. After reading the blog you have, the only real Immeasurable speed feat is his warping arm. And that's being very generous as we see him use portals with Warping arm, not speed alone.

Except I debunked that argument right in the blog.

Yes, while it does use time holes, I mention how Time Eater uses the Warping Arm Attack in the final boss to attack the Super Sonics. This would mean that the Super Sonics are in a different time period relative to the Time Eater, so they were travelling through time with movement alone.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, some characters do have hax where events that happen in the future happen in the past. Take the Zero Escape franchise for example. Some characters also have the ability to teleport their attacks to different time periods without having Immeasurable speed. Also, it is possible for Omnipresence to actually be a weakness. Being harmed in the future harms you in the past is one way in which it is.

 

[ED_INFINITUM]

I've said this googlplex times, but the Super Trio also moves to different time periods via speed while they're approaching Solaris,which coincides with the battle itself,why the hell wouldn't it.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

No such hax was used in 06, so it isn't relevant here.

Also, "No. It is a transcendent life form that exists in the past, present, and future. Defeating it here, now, would do nothing."

Only way to defeat Solaris is to attack him in every time period all at once.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Legit everyone says that's pure unadulterated extrapolation.

 

[RotofBots]

@Shadow

You didn't really debunk it, however. You're debunk relies on theory-crafting and assumptions that are never stated or expressed in the series.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's simple, Solaris can be defeated via AoE attacks that are omnipresent across Space-Time, they don't need Immeasurable speed at all really. Just like how Zeno was able to oneshot Fusion Zamasu.