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Sonic the Hedgehog CRT

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Anyway every other boss remain the same sans:

At least 5-A: Super Eggrobot, Perfect Chaos, Finalhazard, Devil Doom, Gaia Colossus, Perfect Dark Gaia, Mother Wisp, Super Imperator IX, and Phantom King.

At least 5-A to 4-A: Metal Madness/Overlord, Super Mecha Sonic, Ultimate Gemerl, Super Mighty, Knuckles, Tails and Ray.

Sonic was just at least 5-A against P. Dark Gaia since was not in the best nor in top condition also with DMB 1 comment, lastly to Low 2-C for Classic Sonic and to 2-C for the Super Trio and Burning Blaze.
 
Dark Gaia's 5-A feat is one of the reasons the weaker end game bosses like Perfect Chaos; and I highly doubt upgrading the base form of Dark Gaia is really a good idea; sounds like it would be reverse power scaling as that was a severely weakened Super Sonic. Perfect Dark Gaia not being that much different than regular sounds more like a reason to downgrade the stronger key.
 
If you say that Sonic, even in his Super Form, wasn't in his best conditions, that clashes with the Super Form's supposedly infinite stamina (which I myself have an issue with, but still).

And the Gaia Temples, which afterwise assembled into the Gaia Colossus, were the one that restored the Emeralds after being completely drained by Drak Gaia.

So I don't see Dark Gaia being that much weaker compared to other bosses.
 
Dark Gaia completely drained the Negative Energy of the Chaos Emeralds which Chaos Emerald's negative energy is still 5-A and still on board to Perfect Chaos' justifications. Gaia Colossus didn't fully restore the Chaos Emeralds so Super Sonic was way weaker than he normally is in Super form. He's not weaker than Devil Doom, Perfect Chaos, or Finalhazard for sure, but he still doesn't scale from Super Sonic.
 
@DarkDragon Yea, it may similar to Super Sonic because of transformations, sharing some of the same abilities, and even being superior to Super Sonic's weaker ends of his tier (if you're referring to the tiers below 3-D Universal, then yea). However, when factoring in speed, "At least FTL" for Darkspine Sonic would be more preferred as it won't sound like a random assumption.

@TheImagine

Darkspine Sonic wasn't even running throughout the entire fight, he was levitating via flight and of course it was simply Reality Warping.

Time Break involves affecting Time itself as well for the ability to properly and I thought I didn't really have to explain that part since it was kind of obvious. It wasn't really his reality yet either way in the first place since Alf said this "I will remake this world...," so Alf did not remade it yet during the fight.

Pretty sure that logic definitely doesn't apply in these Sonic games due to its contradictory evidence against that claim.

Sonic just told Erazor to return the stories back to the way they were since they were being destroyed over time, not instantly. Also, if Erazor destroyed all of the stories (which includes the information on the pages) and Sonic is currently in the book, then clearly neither of them would have this conversation right now in the game in the first place now, could they? So no, the stories aren't destroyed nor is the reality within the book destroyed either (the stories were still there & wasn't completely erased yet and I'm not repeating myself again after this for the last sentence below.

No, Alf did not destroy Time itself since Darkspine Sonic was literally able to use Time Break and affecting the flow of time by slowing it down is the point of how Time Break simply works & having an ability that affects Time itself in a game is never a game mechanic.
 
DMB 1 said:
If you say that Sonic, even in his Super Form, wasn't in his best conditions, that clashes with the Super Form's supposedly infinite stamina (which I myself have an issue with, but still).
Click to expand...
The Super Forms never shown sign of being tired, but if the base form is tired it will affect the Super Form stats and duration.
 
Sonic is faster than However he glides/flies/levitates so it would still scale, I don't even know how that proves your argument my guy.


Quit it, it never said that and that's not even what the move does, it allows the player to use sonic better by showing us his view of the world for better reaction, it does not require time to work and is relative to his speed because of the speed gauge from Secret Rings And Generations.

No it doesn't, you need to provide a better explanation to this faction.

Erazor Already Destroyed/Killed the spirits and Djiins of the Arabian Nights story, he already destroyed them, "I am.... the creator and the stories of this world are mine" Sonic Responded by saying "if this is your world, than it's a world I want no part of" Sonics Statement proves he also destroyed that multiverse. To deny it would be redundant. No downgrade is necessary.

Using "Time Break" isn't enough for your point, Since It does not require time to use it, That's what you are not understanding......
 
Dark649 said:
Perfect Dark Gaia harmed a Super Sonic in Unleashed that was not in the best nor in top condition since Dark Gaia previously reverted Werehog Sonic to Base, and the latter had to move back in fourth in order to destroy its eyes.
Click to expand...

That ain't a good excuse, Sonic had his soul split by Mephiles before he got up and beat Solaris......
 
@TheImagine

You're making your argument sound like an association fallacy between 2 Super Forms because of their specific similarities between each other. Also, "However he glides/flies/levitates so it would still scale" is a bad argument, that's me saying "character A has MFTL+ flight speed while character B can fly but displayed speeds far slower than them, so since they can fly, that still makes them MFTL+."

Eggman: "This one controls the flow of time!"

I just disproven it when and after Darkspine Sonic was shown to use Time Break in the environment of a warped reality & Time can exist without space.

Now you're just making headcanons at this point, especially ignoring the fact that Alf said, "I will remake this world...," so he did not destroyed the reality in the book but other than warping it since he needs to defeat Darkspine Sonic first as he is the only obstacle preventing his plans from being accomplished. Sonic's statement proves nothing about anything being destroyed (especially not the multiverse itself, neither characters left the book yet), that's just your own headcanon.

Eggman's word about how the Time Break works proves otherwise.
 
That would not Matter because Sonic "is" definitely faster than Flight/Hover/Glide/Float Momentum, It was literally Stated that sonic is best on his feat, regardless of how you think it, it ain't an association fallacy, it is a fact.

Where'd you get that quote?


No you did not, you never even proved it was "just warped" Erazor already destroyed it during the Statement. You would have to prove that logic resides in Sonic the Hedgehog.

No, I'm not ignoring anything, Erazor said "the stories of this world are mine" and sonic responded with "if this is your world" meaning the stories were erased, and I've proved before, destroying stories = destroying world = destroying the multiverse of the Arabian Nights, The Arabian Nights has 8 worlds (I could give scans if you want), I was not talking about the entire multiverse in its entirety.

Link? Scan?
 
Dark649 said:
The Arabian Night is only one reality, and Sonic having his soul split is vague headcanon.
Click to expand...
Nope, it was sort of confirmed by Elise that happened, he was dead, but he wasn't, like his soul was split, she could sense him moving in the wind. Seriously, watch the Japanese cutscenes of the final story.
 
Dark649 said:
The Arabian Night is only one reality, and Sonic having his soul split is vague headcanon.
Click to expand...

About that, it's a reality, but has 8 universes in it, possibly infinite if we highball.

What I mean is this: http://powersonic.com.br/games/manuais/ssecretrings_wii_manual.pdf

Page 5 Has "Timeless Tales" And In Page 7 "Timeless Charm" (But I think it's a bit vague, unless we include the endless adventures Statement from the ending then yeah.)

It has "8 worlds" according to World Select In Page 9.
 
@TheImagine

Which isn't because that's a headcanon.

Eggman mentioned this quote in Sonic Generations.

Why would Sonic need Erazor to undo & fix his influence on the stories that were still being erased over time if they are already destroyed? Such an assumption will go against the plot and I hope you're not seriously questioning the "Time can exist without space" logic in the 2nd sentence of your response because this is a no-brainer that everyone already knows out, there's no point in arguing against something that is already proven to be valid.

Never said "anything," only specific points. No, it means Alf has control of the stories and once again, nothing was stating that these stories are destroyed because Alf didn't remake them yet, he has to defeat Darkspine Sonic first.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@TheImagine
Which isn't because that's a headcanon.

Eggman mentioned this quote in Sonic Generations.

Why would Sonic need Erazor to undo & fix his influence on the stories that were still being erased over time if they are already destroyed? Such an assumption will go against the plot and I hope you're not seriously questioning the "Time can exist without space" logic in the 2nd sentence of your response because this is a no-brainer that everyone already knows out, there's no point in arguing against something that is already proven to be valid.

Never said "anything," only specific points. No, it means Alf has control of the stories and once again, nothing was stating that these stories are destroyed because Alf didn't remake them yet, he has to defeat Darkspine Sonic first.
Click to expand...
it is not, the gathered conclusion is from the scene and the quotes, you cannot debunk the quotes

where's the link? i don't see it, ever

sonic wanted erazor to bring back shara, likewise, fixing the reality of the arabian knights ain't his style, so he hit two birds with one stone, erazor knows everything in the world of the arabian knights and even if he didn't, sonic wanted to humiliate him anyway for his deeds, sonic warps reality as seen in the final cutscene for the credits.


he erased it and made his own reality, a timeless black void, darkspine sonic moved in it, period. sonic said "if this is your world", sonic rejected it with speed and hax, he had to defeat darkspine sonic because he threatens his world.......... that's it........
 
@TheImagine

No matter what you say, the "I can still fly, so I'm MFTL+" is never going to be true and will change nothing.

It was mentioned somewhere during the Time Eater boss fight in Sonic Generations in which he mentioned this when Time Eater uses his Time Deceleration abilities which basically works exactly the same way as Sonic's Time Break. Other than that, I don't know the specific timestamp of where you can directly find it even if I provided a link to the video or not but it isn't really important either way as it won't change how Sonic's time break truly works.

Okay.

>Never started nor implied that he erased it

>Darkspine Sonic uses Time Break automatically disproves it from being a timeless void

>Keyword: "If" and in that context, it's going to eventually become Alf's world unless Darkspine Sonic stops him

>Nothing implying that he rejected it in any way

>Threating the world =/= Already destroyed nor erased the world
 
Magi Hussie said:
@TheImagine
No matter what you say, the "I can still fly, so I'm MFTL+" is never going to be true and will change nothing.

It was mentioned somewhere during the Time Eater boss fight in Sonic Generations in which he mentioned this when Time Eater uses his Time Deceleration abilities which basically works exactly the same way as Sonic's Time Break. Other than that, I don't know the specific timestamp of where you can directly find it even if I provided a link to the video or not but it isn't really important either way as it won't change how Sonic's time break truly works.

Okay.

>Never started nor implied that he erased it

>Darkspine Sonic uses Time Break automatically disproves it from being a timeless void

>Keyword: "If" and in that context, it's going to eventually become Alf's world unless Darkspine Sonic stops him

>Nothing implying that he rejected it in any way

>Threating the world =/= Already destroyed nor erased the world
Click to expand...


i can't keep arguing.


you straight lied....... you need to prove that time eater's decelaration ability = time break, working similarly does not equal eachother


i actually wouldn't mind someone deleting these comments and closing the thread
 
@TheImagine

>"Burden of Proof"

>Literally explains Time Break directly from the link to the manual

TIME BREAK: "Press the +Control Pad down to slow down the passing of time so it's easier to react to things happening in the scene. Press the +Control Pad down again during Time Break to quit the action."

^ Not that hard to understand dude.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@TheImagine
>"Burden of Proof"

>Literally explains Time Break directly from the link to the manual

TIME BREAK: "Press the +Control Pad down to slow down the passing of time so it's easier to react to things happening in the scene. Press the +Control Pad down again during Time Break to quit the action."

^ Not that hard to understand dude.
Click to expand...
that just explains the mechanic of it in the game, it does not require time to use it, it's just explaining how to use it, he can use this in white space (a place with no time) and passages between dimensions (when he was facing time eater)

"Press the +Control Pad down"

" so it's easier to react to things happening in the scene" again it's peripheral of sonic's personal world, it does not require time to use it and it just explains the controls of how to use it.

nothing you are saying is debunking the argument.
 
I don't mean to be rude but is it ok to talk about the Darkspine stuff in a new thread? I just want to focus on the OP for now.
 
@TheImagine

"...it does not require time to use it, it's just explaining how to use it..."

Excuse me, what...? And it does both, stop denying it. What you're saying is exactly like saying the controls of how to use the abilities should only matter but not the abilities themselves as well (which nobody ever say that due to how faulty that logic sounds).

As what that quotation says, when you slow down time around your environment, the manual explains how Sonic can easily react to things in his world.
 
@MYHERO Sorry, didn't notice his reply notification.

@Zamasu Sure, there's no need for me to continue that argument with @TheImagine anymore at this point because there's nothing he said that will disprove how the ability works.

In other words, you can go right ahead on doing that in the meantime.
 
@Magi thank you

Now a big issue I have with Sonic is that I don't think he should scale to Solaris. If the chaos and sol emeralds together can only perform a baseline 2-C feat, especially over a long period of time, it doesn't make sense for him to scale to someone that can destroy bare absolute minimum 15 universes, hell hes even described as a being that can destroy space and time on an incomprehensible scale. INB4 you mention the variable tier, it wasn't any super form that performed the feat but the power source. Let me elaborate, the chaos emeralds don't match you with the enemy, they either make you superior or give you enough energy, so basically it's about the necessary energy output. However there should be a limit and it should cap at low 2-C for the reasons I stated many times.

Edit: so you don't have to scroll all the way up. Eggman says that only the combined power of both emeralds can destroy parallel worlds and the precess is extremely long, we don't truly know how the process works. It's not merging because everything was eventually gonna be destroyed and it was stated that Blaze's world was going to clash with Sonic's. Moving a universe is unquantifiable Hax I think.
 
Also something I've noticed. People were really quick to conclude 2-A Sonic when that fake news for Solaris came out. That's just further evidence for a low 2-C Sonic. Not only would it have resulted in a 2-A Solaris but a 2-A Eggwizard which only leaves Sonic with one 2-C feat that's technically low 2-C. I'm not Saying the feat is low 2-C I'm saying the feat will result in low 2-C super forms. A baseline 2-C feat is only possible under certain circumstances but people aren't looking deep enough, so it's quite frustrating to repeat myself over and over like a teacher talking to children.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
@Magi thank you
Now a big issue I have with Sonic is that I don't think he should scale to Solaris. If the chaos and sol emeralds together can only perform a baseline 2-C feat, especially over a long period of time, it doesn't make sense for him to scale to someone that can destroy bare absolute minimum 15 universes, hell hes even described as a being that can destroy space and time on an incomprehensible scale. INB4 you mention the variable tier, it wasn't any super form that performed the feat but the power source. Let me elaborate, the chaos emeralds don't match you with the enemy, they either make you superior or give you enough energy, so basically it's about the necessary energy output. However there should be a limit and it should cap at low 2-C for the reasons I stated many times.

Edit: so you don't have to scroll all the way up. Eggman says that only the combined power of both emeralds can destroy parallel worlds and the precess is extremely long, we don't truly know how the process works. It's not merging because everything was eventually gonna be destroyed and it was stated that Blaze's world was going to clash with Sonic's. Moving a universe is unquantifiable Hax I think.
Click to expand...


not exactly true on the solaris part, because the chaos emeralds bind all sources of life according to page 4 of sonic chaos http://info.sonicretro.org/images/b/bb/SonicChaos_GG_US_manual.pdf

that includes lumina, void, solaris, time eater, dark gaia, light gaia, just about everything.............. it's so powerful it can create parallel universes and fly into it. not lying. lowest it's tier 4.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Also something I've noticed. People were really quick to conclude 2-A Sonic when that fake news for Solaris came out. That's just further evidence for a low 2-C Sonic. Not only would it have resulted in a 2-A Solaris but a 2-A Eggwizard which only leaves Sonic with one 2-C feat that's technically low 2-C. I'm not Saying the feat is low 2-C I'm saying the feat will result in low 2-C super forms. A baseline 2-C feat is only possible under certain circumstances but people aren't looking deep enough, so it's quite frustrating to repeat myself over and over like a teacher talking to children.
Click to expand...
@Magi yeah i'm tired of this, none of us are seeing the other's point so i'd quit, leave it as agree to disagree

oh funny thing about "the fake news" the controversy is explained by zastando here https://plus.google.com/u/1/+Tylerthehedgehoganddavidthefox/posts/JDzCMpiXnAX the 2nd script is real lol

but regardless sonic-verse revolves around time-space continuums which would showcase several timelines/universes in one sweep of a universe possibly immeasurable but i'll make a post about that.
 
I made this thread because Sonic scaling isn't specific enough. I think people rely too much on power scaling in the Sonic universe, I was telling people to look past the scaling and look at the chaos emeralds. The thing I'm pointing out is that Sonic is scaled from enemies that are higher than the chaos emeralds best feat which makes no sense.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
I made this thread because Sonic scaling isn't specific enough. I think people rely too much on power scaling in the Sonic universe, I was telling people to look past the scaling and look at the chaos emeralds. The thing I'm pointing out is that Sonic is scaled from enemies that are higher than the chaos emeralds best feat which makes no sense.
Click to expand...
it's because the chaos emeralds is of a quantum item species, birthed from the master emerald in the games

in total there are 26-32 chaos emeralds in the sonic games according to sonic spinball and sonic jam adding along with the other 8 seen in sonic the fighters

one chaos emerald posed a huge threat to time eater, the ladder would go for super sonic..... powerscaling is really the only thing laid out for sonic.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
I made this thread because Sonic scaling isn't specific enough. I think people rely too much on power scaling in the Sonic universe, I was telling people to look past the scaling and look at the chaos emeralds. The thing I'm pointing out is that Sonic is scaled from enemies that are higher than the chaos emeralds best feat which makes no sense.
Click to expand...
the chaos emeralds bind their lives as well. as per the manual i showed above.

they are not stronger than the chaos emeralds, but they are big threats
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Exactly what are you implying?
Click to expand...
the enemies are never said or showcased to be stronger/above the chaos emeralds in the first place.

they are lifeforms:

illumina, void and lumina are extra dimensional lifeforms

solaris is a transcendental lifeform, a god of time

time eater is a primordial lifeform meaning he existed before and possibly after the beginning of time

imperator ix, light gaia, and dark gaia are cosmic lifeforms

the chaos emeralds as stated above binds all life, that includes them.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
The Eggwizard was stated to dwarf them in power.
Click to expand...
1. no it only implied it could beat super sonic and super blaze individually, but working together would create a different result, another thing to note is that the eggmen had the jeweled scepter which would allow eggman and nega to create a higher dimension, but they wanted to beat blaze (nora) and sonic (maurice) first.

2. that does not debunk the ladder
 
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