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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

OK if we get Black Doom, hear me out. He should be played by Hugo Weaving (mainly since Tony Todd is dead sadly).
 
After repeated rewatches of Eggman vs Bowser over the last several days (can you blame me? It's peak) and thinking about it for awhile? there's one part about the post analysis that bugged me a little.

When they talked about why Bowser was greater in physical stats than Eggman, they mentioned that Bowser was above Yoshi, who scales to the same level of power as the Death Egg which is capable of destroying stars. But that bugs me because they don't mention that Sonic fought against Emerl when he was empowered by star destroying power, and Eggman's consistently created machines which are able to contend with a Sonic that's much stronger than the one who fought against Ultimate Emerl. A better way they could've said that Bowser was stronger than Eggman was using the universal black hole feat from Galaxy 1.

It seems to be a consistent pattern for Death Battle: when they try saying that x character is stronger than y character, they don't use the most straightforward reasoning they have in their arsenal and use borderline backwards reasoning for their conclusions.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
there's one part about the post analysis that bugged me a little.
Click to expand...
Just one?
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
When they talked about why Bowser was greater in physical stats than Eggman, they mentioned that Bowser was above Yoshi, who scales to the same level of power as the Death Egg which is capable of destroying stars. But that bugs me because they don't mention that Sonic fought against Emerl when he was empowered by star destroying power, and Eggman's consistently created machines which are able to contend with a Sonic that's much stronger than the one who fought against Ultimate Emerl. A better way they could've said that Bowser was stronger than Eggman was using the universal black hole feat from Galaxy 1.
Click to expand...
Instantly what I thought.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
After repeated rewatches of Eggman vs Bowser over the last several days (can you blame me? It's peak) and thinking about it for awhile? there's one part about the post analysis that bugged me a little.

When they talked about why Bowser was greater in physical stats than Eggman, they mentioned that Bowser was above Yoshi, who scales to the same level of power as the Death Egg which is capable of destroying stars. But that bugs me because they don't mention that Sonic fought against Emerl when he was empowered by star destroying power, and Eggman's consistently created machines which are able to contend with a Sonic that's much stronger than the one who fought against Ultimate Emerl. A better way they could've said that Bowser was stronger than Eggman was using the universal black hole feat from Galaxy 1.

It seems to be a consistent pattern for Death Battle: when they try saying that x character is stronger than y character, they don't use the most straightforward reasoning they have in their arsenal and use borderline backwards reasoning for their conclusions.
Click to expand...
Yoshi's feat is not even at the same tier as the FEB. His is 4-C while the FEB is 4-A. This is like back when Mario vs Sonic 2 came out and we had Donkey Kong and Wario tier 6 feats match Dark Gaia's 5-A.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
After repeated rewatches of Eggman vs Bowser over the last several days (can you blame me? It's peak) and thinking about it for awhile? there's one part about the post analysis that bugged me a little.

When they talked about why Bowser was greater in physical stats than Eggman, they mentioned that Bowser was above Yoshi, who scales to the same level of power as the Death Egg which is capable of destroying stars. But that bugs me because they don't mention that Sonic fought against Emerl when he was empowered by star destroying power, and Eggman's consistently created machines which are able to contend with a Sonic that's much stronger than the one who fought against Ultimate Emerl. A better way they could've said that Bowser was stronger than Eggman was using the universal black hole feat from Galaxy 1.

It seems to be a consistent pattern for Death Battle: when they try saying that x character is stronger than y character, they don't use the most straightforward reasoning they have in their arsenal and use borderline backwards reasoning for their conclusions.
Click to expand...
It's also odd that they didn't make power a tie when both had universal and multiversal scaling. Like at that point I don't get how their 4B and lower feats would really matter. That and making that category a tie would better sell how close the match is without changing the outcome.
 
Snek said:
It's also odd that they didn't make power a tie when both had universal and multiversal scaling. Like at that point I don't get how their 4B and lower feats would really matter. That and making that category a tie would better sell how close the match is without changing the outcome.
Click to expand...
that is true, let alone whatever they think of what even is PR (the blackbox mentioned nullspace.)
 
Snek said:
It's also odd that they didn't make power a tie when both had universal and multiversal scaling. Like at that point I don't get how their 4B and lower feats would really matter. That and making that category a tie would better sell how close the match is without changing the outcome.
Click to expand...
Please remind me of the base level scaling on each side
 
Snek said:
220 solar masses vs 2400 solar masses if I remember correctly from the black hole scaling. Both were universal and possibly multiversal at there best though.
Click to expand...
I should be more specific. I mean the feats themselves (like the universal ends)

Preferably also the multiversal ends
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Please remind me of the base level scaling on each side
Click to expand...
Culex and dreamy Bowser were mentioned in the corner boxes for Bowser with universal black hole scaling also being mentioned. While for Eggman multiversal came from Solaris scaling with void and erazor djinn being mentioned in corner boxes.

That's what I remember at least.
 
Snek said:
It's also odd that they didn't make power a tie when both had universal and multiversal scaling. Like at that point I don't get how their 4B and lower feats would really matter. That and making that category a tie would better sell how close the match is without changing the outcome.
Click to expand...
They did not make the fight look close at all. The community gaslight themselves into thinking it was, but the Death Battle team probably thinks Bowser stomps.
 
Snek said:
Culex and dreamy Bowser were mentioned in the corner boxes for Bowser with universal black hole scaling also being mentioned. While for Eggman multiversal came from Solaris scaling with void and erazor djinn being mentioned in corner boxes.

That's what I remember at least.
Click to expand...
I could've sworn they said their base levels have universal ends

I might be thinking of the Death Battle fan blog tho
 
Found a post on Reddit which was an interesting hypothetical.

Say the Sonicverse was included in the Tournament of Power. What would be the choice for a team? (Within reason. Solaris can't be used cause he got wiped. The End would probably never help with something like this. Etc). How well would they do? What would be some interesting interactions, strategies, etc used?
 
Angelzewolf said:
Found a post on Reddit which was an interesting hypothetical.

Say the Sonicverse was included in the Tournament of Power. What would be the choice for a team? (Within reason. Solaris can't be used cause he got wiped. The End would probably never help with something like this. Etc). How well would they do? What would be some interesting interactions, strategies, etc used?
Click to expand...
I mean. If we use the site's scaling, any Sonic team member would be disqualified for killing opponents (unintentionally)
 
Angelzewolf said:
Found a post on Reddit which was an interesting hypothetical.

Say the Sonicverse was included in the Tournament of Power. What would be the choice for a team? (Within reason. Solaris can't be used cause he got wiped. The End would probably never help with something like this. Etc). How well would they do? What would be some interesting interactions, strategies, etc used?
Click to expand...
Can we resurrect characters? Like what they did with Frieza?
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
I could've sworn they said their base levels have universal ends

I might be thinking of the Death Battle fan blog tho
Click to expand...
So yeah, the Eggman Empire's base level would scale to Sonic surviving the Paradox Prism's explosion, which is at least universal, if not six universes. And they didn't use the feat in their analysis. Bravo, Death Battle

Where do base Bowser and co get universal scaling from?
 
Angelzewolf said:
Found a post on Reddit which was an interesting hypothetical.

Say the Sonicverse was included in the Tournament of Power. What would be the choice for a team? (Within reason. Solaris can't be used cause he got wiped. The End would probably never help with something like this. Etc). How well would they do? What would be some interesting interactions, strategies, etc used?
Click to expand...
Well Eggman and Infinite are incapable due to the no items rule, but Metal/Neo and Gemerl are qualified by the case of Universe 3.
Silver is severely limited in his Psychokinesis and is incapable of flight due to the rules as well, but he has the capability of just grabbing and throwing people off the ring. Not sure on Tails and whether he'd qualify.
Current thoughts on primary choices would be Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, Espio, Neo Metal, Gemerl, Sage, Surge, Tangle, and Chaos going off of limitations.
 
Last edited:
Sage is a must have for this team. She's intangible for one has OP barriers to help her teammates and can telaport anywhere in the arena. Additionally she can control other robots which would be helpful since afew fighters in the TOP are robot's.
 
Angelzewolf said:
Found a post on Reddit which was an interesting hypothetical.

Say the Sonicverse was included in the Tournament of Power. What would be the choice for a team? (Within reason. Solaris can't be used cause he got wiped. The End would probably never help with something like this. Etc). How well would they do? What would be some interesting interactions, strategies, etc used?
Click to expand...
Assuming base characters only and in no order: Sonic, Rouge, Amy, Zavok, Whisper (I know the rules of the ToP said no weapons but that shit didn't stick so), Metal Sonic, Shadow, Lanolin, Chaos, Wave.

I did greatly consider Eggman, but I'm pretty sure many on the team would hard veto him, in my eyes.
 
Silver and Blaze were also separately thought of, but the ToP did seemingly keep its rule about all members of a team needing to be from one universe. So in that case, Blaze would be on her own "Team Sol", I imagine, and Silver being from an alternate future may eliminate him as a choice. I also wanted to make an exciting roster, instead of just Sonic Heroes minus Cream and Big, or something.

I also wanted Omega, but I assumed that a "No killing" rule would be enforced, thus eliminating him, Surge, and Kit as choices, in my head.
 
MysticMania said:
Silver and Blaze were also separately thought of, but the ToP did seemingly keep its rule about all members of a team needing to be from one universe. So in that case, Blaze would be on her own "Team Sol", I imagine, and Silver being from an alternate future may eliminate him as a choice. I also wanted to make an exciting roster, instead of just Sonic Heroes minus Cream and Big, or something.

I also wanted Omega, but I assumed that a "No killing" rule would be enforced, thus eliminating him, Surge, and Kit as choices, in my head.
Click to expand...
You'd have to probably remove the Chaotix from a team as an option simply for the risk of them turning the combatants into rings.
 
MysticMania said:
Silver and Blaze were also separately thought of, but the ToP did seemingly keep its rule about all members of a team needing to be from one universe. So in that case, Blaze would be on her own "Team Sol", I imagine, and Silver being from an alternate future may eliminate him as a choice. I also wanted to make an exciting roster, instead of just Sonic Heroes minus Cream and Big, or something.

I also wanted Omega, but I assumed that a "No killing" rule would be enforced, thus eliminating him, Surge, and Kit as choices, in my head.
Click to expand...
I think Silver's powers would be cool enough that Zeno would say "f*ck it, anything goes"
 
MysticMania said:
Assuming base characters only and in no order: Sonic, Rouge, Amy, Zavok, Whisper (I know the rules of the ToP said no weapons but that shit didn't stick so), Metal Sonic, Shadow, Lanolin, Chaos, Wave.

I did greatly consider Eggman, but I'm pretty sure many on the team would hard veto him, in my eyes.
Click to expand...
Lanolin & whisper are immediately blowned off the ring (not sure about wave or even chaos.)
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
I think Silver's powers would be cool enough that Zeno would say "f*ck it, anything goes"
Click to expand...
Another reason I didn't do Silver honestly, is that 5/10 of the team would then be the same species. And like, I know Dragon Ball is the reference point here, but I didn't want to do that with a potentially much more diverse team, really.

He'd be cool, though.
 
Huh. I didn't actually consider it fully, but yeah. I guess the Chaos Emeralds wouldn't be allowed since they're technically items. Though there were some exceptions in TOP, so... I don't know. Zeno just does whatever he wants—

I am seeing a lot more diversity than I expected. I mean... Zavok? Lanolin? Wave? Bit surprised bout Surge and Tangle too. Sage does feel like a mandatory. How does a character from one game make herself so viable? Gotta respect it.
 
I guess Tangle or Chaos could be swapped out for Tails to keep the trio as a team, but Surge just felt like too much of a wild card of not just fights, but potential interactions transpiring between her and the OG rivals that Sonic has had and went through over the years.
 
Heres my pitch for the T.O.P Sonic line up. Although technically if the ancients were revived they could rebuild the Titans and have them participate so eh. That's a bit cheesey even for me. Also no gods unfortunately so Chip is banned and I would imagine Mephilse and Iblis are considered demi gods. Last Silver and Blaze are probably out by default as well due to the rules. The only exception to the no god thing would be Chaos due to him not being a deity in a cosmic sense.

1. Neo Metal Sonic: Alright have Eggman upgrade Metal to his neo form and have him implant the chaos emeralds into his body. Now Metal has a broken copy ability and the ability to go super when ever he wants. From there have him copy the bio data of the main cast including Eggman so he gains all their abilities and super intelligence as well as the ability to fuse with metal to become Metal Overlord. Keep in mind the T.O.P ring is made of a super metal Metal Sonic could likely fuse with.

2. Sage: She is for all intents and purposes invulnerable in the T.O.P due to her complete intangibility. Additionally she's a super genius in terms of strategising and she can create barriers to defend her team mates. Also Sage can naturally fly and teleport which makes her more mobile than anyone in the tournament. Lastly she can mind control other machines meaning she could swipe most of universe three.

3. Phantom king: Build the phantom ruby into him and you suddenly have an unstoppable hax machine. Enough said.

4. Sonic: Team synergy of course but he also has accelerated development and the ability to resist existence erasure meaning Toppo can't hakai him.

5. Shadow: Same as Sonic but he can also fly with his shoes shoot energy beams and teleport. Good overall and even better if he can spam teleport people off the ring.

6. Knuckles: Aside from team synergy with Sonic Knuckles is here due to hitting really hard and having the natural ability to glide. What can I say DB charecters were never the peak of versatility anyways which shows that hitting hard is sometimes all you need.

7. Surge: Excellent speed and power aside Surge is here due to her endurance and healing factor which could allow her to fight the entire 48 minutes and barely tire kind of like android 17.

8. Kitsunami: Same as above and he has team synergy with Surge.

9. Zavok: He can control the other teams robots become a kaiju and hit really hard. Once again sometimes that's all you need.

10. Chaos: I just needed one more guy tbh since chaos 0 is just meh. Maybe he could consume some chaos drives or something.
 
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