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The user's base power and the High 4-C calc is applicable for both. In both cases the result should be 4-B (3-C for late Adventure era)
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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I was talking about foes who would scale to baseline.
Ghengiroo115
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Ohhhhhhh. I imagine every Low 2-C that doesn’t have their own high enough feat (Final Hazard, Devil Doom, Final Weapon, etc).
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Final Hazard should likely be comparable to Perfect Chaos as Sonic was impressed by its power despite having fought the latter just one game prior
Ghengiroo115
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Makes sense. It‘s also kinda weird for a Super boss in a sequel to be massively weaker than its predecessor, but SA2 is only really a sequel in name only so I don’t think that would work as an argument here.
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I mean lowkey if we do accept that super sonic grows with base form growth, would the full power of the CE actually just be 5-D and Super Sonic is 6-D, since he jumped up a dimensional level after Adventure.
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We don't apply transformation scaling in such a way. That kind of scaling relies heavily on our own tiers. What if Super Sonic went back down to Tier 2, for instance?
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I was initially thinking that modern Supe was just infinitely above pre-modern in the same tier but, then the dimensional jump stuff got me thinking.
Lowkey I think Sonic has gotten more infinite feats to justify his placement, like the Prime one and Sonic spreading his aura across infinite space in Otherworld.
Lowkey I think Sonic has gotten more infinite feats to justify his placement, like the Prime one and Sonic spreading his aura across infinite space in Otherworld.
Ghengiroo115
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I find it kinda weird how villains empowered by Chaos Emeralds don’t have “potentially up to 1-C” like Amy, Mighty, Ray and Trip do. Is there any reason for that?
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I plan on removing that from them
ShakeResounding
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Imo Ray and Mighty shouldn't. Trip also likely shouldn't.
Super Amy, Knuckles, and Tails are likely fine though. They can go Hyper.
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Which feat?
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The one where he appears in two places at once via speed, base Sonic should scale as of Frontiers via being able to keep up with bloodlusted Wyvern.
Ghengiroo115
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Yeah tbh I didn’t agree with all Super characters having the same peaks either. I was just confused on why the good guys had it while the bad guys didn’t. I don’t see why a character having a Hyper form would mean that their Super forms should be 1-C at peak though.
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Also the characters being able to outrun the pull of Solaris eyes, which can suck in all of space time.
Ghengiroo115
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Don’t Chaos Emeralds also multiply speed like Power Cores? Wouldn’t that make the Wyvern and Knight encounters invalid for speed scaling by default?
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Not really sure I agree, if anything Chaos got slower as he absorbed more Chaos Emeralds.
Plus outrunning bloodlusted Wyvern is baked into the game’s mandatory progression.
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Base Forms being = to their own, current Super Forms will never not be a no
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.......wrong, Metal Sonic during the 2021 sonic channel story debunks this notion
Ghengiroo115
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Sadly that’s what’s accepted at the moment (just checked the scaling blog), and Super forms are generally just massively faster than their base anyway. While it was definitely the intention for base Sonic to scale in speed to Wyvern and Knight, it just doesn’t work when you consider the franchise as a whole.
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Via his Paradox Prism transformation. It's also implied this transformation allows Sonic to duplicate too, although not officially confirmed.
An immeasurable speed outlier is not evidence of infinite speed, and yes, it is an outlier because Wyvern scales not just to Super Sonic, but also downscales from an AMPED PEAK Super Sonic. No matter how consistantly base Sonic keeps up with the Titans, it will always be an outlier due to circular scaling. It's simply impossible for him to be even remotely comparable to his own current Starfall Super Sonic transformation.
That being said, I currently disagree with removing infinite speed for modern base forms not only because I think the current feats are valid, but because the ongoing cosmology revision will give us infinite sized universes, and therefore an infinite speed feat from Dodon Pa's rocket and Eggman's machines. On top of that there are in fact potential infinite speed feats in the Adventure era... I may bring them up if I have to.
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You should definitely bring them up now so we can discuss them in a deep and intriguing discussion…
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There’s also the quote currently used in the speed section of the verse powerscaling blog, where Sonic is stated to be running faster than he ever has before.
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Why is scaling in speed problematic, you can just say Sonic downscales because he needs to rely on the environment to outpace the Titans instead of pure natural.
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That quote excludes transformations. Otherwise, base Sonic would already be immeasurable
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Massive upscalling above 128x speed amplification........do i need to say more?
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But it is used to scale above Triple Boost, like it seems very arbitrary to me.
And honestly he should be immeasurable atp but that’s just me.
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Yeah because I think the amount of instances of super forms blitzing base forms is, not nearly as high to warrant no downscaling potential at all.
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Ghengiroo115
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All joking aside, that logic would make the Triple Boost upscaling invalid but would upscale him from his Paradox Prism amp.
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I Think it is, IDW specially makes that clear
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I can probably think of a couple immeasurable scaling for base then.
-Characters outrunning the pull of Solaris’ eyes, which can suck in all of space time and distort space.
-Outrunning Chaos Emeralds, which traveled backwards in time 200 years to Mephiles.
-Characters outrunning the pull of Solaris’ eyes, which can suck in all of space time and distort space.
-Outrunning Chaos Emeralds, which traveled backwards in time 200 years to Mephiles.
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The last one is headcanon.
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From the End of the World level
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We're not downscaling base forms from Super Forms no matter how much people wanna push for it so don't even try honestly
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What would it take for the possibility to become at least feasible.
Genuine question.
Genuine question.
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I disagree with Triple Boost upscaling too. That wasn't Sonic's own speed. By that same logic, SA2 Sonic absolutely should have infinite speed from going faster than the time Illumina made him travel to the center of Maginary World.
What 128× speed amp?
