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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
ShakeResounding
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Another question for the masses.
If Amy, Tails, and Knuckles are all indeed playable characters in Update 3, which one are you most excited to experience Frontiers combat with?
If Amy, Tails, and Knuckles are all indeed playable characters in Update 3, which one are you most excited to experience Frontiers combat with?
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knuckles
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Got to stick with my boy Tails
Dust_Collector
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In terms of just moving around the isles I'd be most excited for Tails, would love to just fly around everywhere. For combat would obviously go with my boy Knuckles.
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Honestly despite Knux being my favourite (tied with my pfp) I'm actually looking forward to seeing how Amy will play since unlike Sonic, Tails and Knux she's never actually had a properly defined true moveset in the 3D games just experimentation or being a "worst" Sonic, ironically Boom did try some new stuff with her like giving her the triple jump and customizable Piko-Piko hammers but as we all know, it didn't "work out" so to speak.
Btw what's the consensus of Amy being a character with superpowers? since I heard some fans actually don't want Amy to have powers like Sonic's speed, Knux's strength, Tails smarts/flight, etc and instead actually prefer her in a more supportive role.
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Amy or knuckles, they are the ones with the most potential for the combat gameplay
ShakeResounding
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That weird stint with invisibility in 06 is something that will be genuinely hilarious if they bring back. If they wanna make her unique without powers, they might actually double-down on her Piko Piko hammer and make her the "weapon expert". Maybe she specializes in AoE combat with large swings and shockwaves? IDW has her beating back Zombot hordes using it, so who knows?
Flying around as Tails would be legitimate fun, maybe he even has upgrades that increase flight time. Here's to hoping they showcase some cool gadgets from him alongside his innate abilities.
Mfw Knuckles gets back that one move from Heroes which spouts ******* fireballs and lava after a combo lol.
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Maybe it's high time we question Ultra Sonic & how he's more an alternate form than a superior one. There's more evidence that suggests the former. I think people take some liberty with the panels in issue #71 as some kind of shonen escalation when it seems like it's just a cycling through forms do to the circumstances of the time-beam & environment WHILE his speed increases,not his speed increasing BECAUSE of his transformations. I think Ultra is no different than Darkspine & Excalibur,Super-adjacent with different abilities(otherwise Eco Sonic would be an absolute monster that could one-shot Titan Tails). The only times he's ever used the form was for Naugus(because element gimmick) or the Time Beam(because knothole weird). He's also used 7 Super Emeralds,the Master Emerald,& post-Harmony Emeralds to go specifically Super,not Ultra. Sure you could make a case that Ultra burns out quicker or he lacks "finesse" is the reason he doesn't like to use it,but I don't see anything suggesting it being outright more powerful than Super either. Flynns's reasoning is shit too,as usual,I'm pretty sure "opening rifts" gets far outclassed by rewriting all of creation. In the end,I think Ultra is dubiously more powerful than Super at best. I just wish I had the skills to craft a CRT about it. Roast away,but I've never been convinced that Ultra is inherently better.
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better yet, his power to summon rocks from battle
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well sonic went from super to ultra while going faster and faster, he may be not much higher but he is somewhat higher
also ultra requires very specific ways to be achieved, he didn't use it often because he couldn't
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"Shit" rocks,to be specific.
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Yeah,it's just that Power Rings,no matter how many,are still far inferior to Chaos Emeralds,so the actual scaling to the macguffins in question is quite wobbly for the supposed form progression. It feels more like an alternate branch than a straight up ascension. It's more a WarGreymon/BlitzGreymon scenario IMO.
ShakeResounding
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Iirc this was brought up and dismissed on the sight as an egregious oversight in the writing, considering it was supposed to be an adaptation of SA1 and logically the Super Emeralds shouldn't really be there.
The main problem is that, like most things in Archie, they just aren't consistent enough with their own lore. They simultaneously feed us Sonic going Super from 7 Super Emeralds but also have him transform into Ultra after Super when using a sole Super Emerald.
Roasting you would get us nowhere my man, Ultra is just a complicated and rare form.
There seem to be two subsets of Ultra Sonic we see. One is achieved from an excess of Power Rings, which is the one you detailed. Ultra Sonic from Power Rings and Ultra Sonic from a Super Emerald seem to be two branches of the same form; we only ever see his Environmental Adaptation from the one with the Super Emerald, while the form quickly burning out is only ever showcased to be from when he achieves it with Power Rings iirc.
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Could you guys check this document out?
I believe you guys already seen an earlier version of this document, but apparently the creator of the early version decided to revamp it and make it more organized than it was.
I think it's much better to understand:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18u29TUyme6GIMlBHRMVxOS0aKvl9zUfpkFDtwLQuRP4/edit
Also before reading I must stress that I know the creator of this is not very well liked here. But please disregard personal biases and just look at the arguments being presented. And please do not insult anybody!
I believe you guys already seen an earlier version of this document, but apparently the creator of the early version decided to revamp it and make it more organized than it was.
I think it's much better to understand:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18u29TUyme6GIMlBHRMVxOS0aKvl9zUfpkFDtwLQuRP4/edit
Also before reading I must stress that I know the creator of this is not very well liked here. But please disregard personal biases and just look at the arguments being presented. And please do not insult anybody!
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it could work in csap,but here...not
GlaceonGamez471
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Going by CSAP's tiering system (their tiering system has differences to vsbw's), it would not work by their tiering system from what I skimmed of the doc. You could freely make a page with the logic due to CSAP's freedom (but it would likely face disagreement). Strictly going off the the CSAP tiering system though? No, it doesn't really work from what I've skimmed of the doc
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In fact, I think it would work, someone already did something similar and it worked for them (of course there were many people who disagreed with the scaling, but since it didn't break any rules, and it wasn't like other profiles that lacked... well, logic, It wasn't worth much for them to erase it) besides, it's not like it wasn't well done, I mean, it's well done.
also,seriosly,people in csap hate sonic to much,like,seriosly,there is only one wiki where sonic is multiversal in base,and that is Ficcion sin limites,in other wikies,he is star level at best,at worst,not even city level.
GlaceonGamez471
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I am aware of their pages. I acknowledged one could make the pages dispite disagreements. I was just talking purely by CSAP's tiering system.
Also, I know of at least one or two people in the CSAP discord who has a multi or higher base Sonic iirc. Not in an actual page last i checked, but that's where they have em at.
I haven't seen any real hate for Sonic on CSAP that recall? Not off the top of my head at least.
ShakeResounding
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Daily question for my folks; Now that Sega has confirmed Sonic Team is getting an increased budget for Sonic Team's next mainline game, what's something you hope to see because of that?
Me personally, I would love it if all the cutscenes had the same level of quality we got from the various teasers.
Me personally, I would love it if all the cutscenes had the same level of quality we got from the various teasers.
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it may be foolishness of my part, but i want hyper
also, maybe they expand this gameplay style of frontiers with either more characters or a bigger skill tree implamating moves from the stories of the series, like that air attack in sonic battle or the light speed attacks
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No pop in, CGI quality cutscenes, return of multiple playable characters (if not multiple stories), going berserk with the hax and statements, Shadow and Silver having their own unique skill trees (ex: Shadow based on his chaos powers, Silver his psychic ones), would love to have Hyper forms for the final boss.
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Better art design. I want more fantastical enviroments other than Green Hill and Chemical Plant
ShakeResounding
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According to Ian on one of the recent Bumblekasts, he actually pitched Hyper Sonic v The End but was shot down. Enjoy that heartache
I imagine Silver's Skill Tree would absolutely be the most fun to pimp out, there's so many different places to take it. Perfect example is in the Sonic Channel cover story where Silver uses his Shield of Light.
Neo Green Hill, take it or leave it
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why is sega so against using hyper? just make it a special form like excalibur and darkspine and boom, no power creep, i need my purple eyed rainbow/platinum sonic, this is how i view hyper for modern era sonic:
How do you see him?
4 frame grabs to mix enemies
BlastX
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First off:Making Hyper Sonic platinum removes the one thing it's unique about it's design and it's a downgrade.
Second:There's absolutely no reason for Sonic to be using Hyper Form in Frontiers. There's no Master Emerald, Hidden Palace or Emerald Altar to turn the Chaos Emeralds into Super Emeralds. The Super Emeralds stay in the Hidden Palace when they're activated which contradicts Frontiers whole plot...and any tension of the plot gets erased because once Sonic gets the Super Emeralds he can activate them anywhere, so there's no reason for him to not go Hyper and trivialize everything AND to have the Super Emeralds for Frontiers Sonic would have to go collect them for...some reason before Frontiers.
Second:There's absolutely no reason for Sonic to be using Hyper Form in Frontiers. There's no Master Emerald, Hidden Palace or Emerald Altar to turn the Chaos Emeralds into Super Emeralds. The Super Emeralds stay in the Hidden Palace when they're activated which contradicts Frontiers whole plot...and any tension of the plot gets erased because once Sonic gets the Super Emeralds he can activate them anywhere, so there's no reason for him to not go Hyper and trivialize everything AND to have the Super Emeralds for Frontiers Sonic would have to go collect them for...some reason before Frontiers.
ShakeResounding
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Snow-white and strobing in the seven colors of the Chaos Emeralds. I'm honestly not too picky with how he's depicted, so long as it's glorious.
You're looking at it from too narrow of a perspective. Yes, you need the Master Emerald and yes, they can't leave Hidden Palace and yes, everything at Super Sonic's level would become trivial. But that's literally never stopped the fans from pleading their case before, why would it being out of place for Frontiers be any different?
This is also under the assumption that those limitations (Master Emerald, Hidden Palace, etc.) would be abided by. If the Ancients are the ones who sought out the Master Emerald thousands of years prior and were the first to make the connection between them (it's the entire reason they're on Earth, after all), then it stands to reason they could just as easily have created technology of sorts that would use the Master Emerald's power to enhance the Chaos Emeralds to the Super Emeralds. Don't be unimaginative, it's not like fans care about retconning shit when Sega already does it anyways
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Add original environments. The reuse of old stages has more than overstayed its welcome.
The sad thing is, even if they wanna reuse stages, they only ever reuse the same 3 stages people have been complaining about for years. Like there are so many forgotten fan favorites that are well overdue for a return yet they are shoved to the side for Green Hill. Personally I’m just sick of reuse overall though and want new stages.
Dust_Collector
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I hope to see them put more time and focus on alternate costumes, we already got a little bit of it in Frontiers with the soap shoes and monster hunter & santa outfits but I want them to go full Mario Odyssey in the next game, add in his riders outfit, a retro costume that's his model from Sonic R or the og dreamcast Adventure model, put in JSR clothing, could even give him exclusive costumes based on which system you have the game on like giving him his Link costume or a master cheif costume.
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i think the oposite, super sonic is golden with an golden aura, hyper sonic would be platinum with a constant rainbow aura, it would look good i my opinion, also no one can convince otherwise that, purple eyes are sooo much better than red for hyper
they can just retcon the mechanics of it and make it so that the conditions for hyper are so very specific that it is highly impractical for hyper to ever be seen again, like excalibur and darkspine, the power creep problem gets solved
BlastX
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The conditions are already super specific as I outlined in my post, the only reason it would ever be used again it be for the lols, cause Super Sonic already defeated the strongest guy/girl around (The End), so there's no reason to ever use Hyper Sonic aside from a bonus feature like in it's debut.
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to create a stronger enemy is not much difficult, plus the last time they used the super emeralds they deactivated, so they being used again could still be done while preventing the power creep
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I remember one that puts Mario in low hyperversal and puts Sonic too low.
It's not that sonic doesn't have any high storyline, but that he uses things like sonic doesn't scale to solaris, or that sonic is just FTL (when he forgets about other games when he went beyond that) and they lack as many abilities more of sonic.
i mean,i know maybe he does not hate sonic,but he definitavely does not like sonic if he thinks that sonic does not scale to solaris
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Agreed. Super Sonic is one of the best examples of an anti-shonen-power-creep transformation,it's quality over quantity,tried & true. Shonen kinda shoots itself in the foot with the way it's structured in that regard. Although I do think Digimon does form escalation the best because evolution is part of their nature & they go from super-simple to ultra-complex,but we know the ceiling is usually Mega,with the EXTREMELY rare Ultra Digimon. Would Hyper Sonic be conceptually the same as an Ultra Digimon? Kinda,but I don't think it would work as well IMO.
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At least we haven't seen it since Sonic Advance, lol
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How about GHZ? (Green "Hills" Zone).
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enough of green hills zone,i see it like 200000 times in my life.
no joking
MysticMania
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Amy, easily. For some reason, I've just always been drawn to playing as her. I think her design?
I'm still keeping expectations low, but, these three haven't been playable in a 3D game since Sonic 06, if I remember correctly. That's still big to me.
MysticMania
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I'm not personally huge on Hyper's official design. I like the concept, but the shades for the colors chosen aren't appealing, personally, nor am I huge on the flashing. Now, the idea of his body fading different colors in different spots sounds cool, I feel. I really like these two designs, though. The first is from Vanished_san on Twitter, and the second is from a mod for SA1DX on PC.
MysticMania
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ah slightly big
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