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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Tails does have a Super Form. It's in S&K3, Superstars, and technically Heroes. Though, planning Super Forms for them is tricky. Could just have the Chaos Emeralds but what makes their Super Forms. Either that or they get empowered forms similar to Doom Wing Shadow where it functions similarly.
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Well yes it dose exist, but tails as a character has mostly functioned without them for his existence so it's not strictly needed. And modern sonic has been consistent with only hedgehogs getting Super forms so I didn't want to make the assumption.i keep coming to the metal virus in my head actually, and her using her tail to spread it around.. well a cool idea I know it just dosen't work (always fighting robots, she'd become a zombot)
 
Darkmon_cns said:
Well yes it dose exist, but tails as a character has mostly functioned without them for his existence so it's not strictly needed. And modern sonic has been consistent with only hedgehogs getting Super forms so I didn't want to make the assumption.i keep coming to the metal virus in my head actually, and her using her tail to spread it around.. well a cool idea I know it just dosen't work (always fighting robots, she'd become a zombot)
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Yeah, but that's because Tails isn't the main character and has been sidelined for more than a decade. Same for the other characters. Anyone can go Super, they just never get the chance since they aren't relevant enough to get them (even if Superstars dropped the ball on that and just called Super Forms for other characters just "Super Power" aside from Trip).
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
But we don't exactly know if that continues to be the case.
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......why would Devil Doom as a transformation get weaker? if Black Doom only got stronger?

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Really, all we know is that Shadow fought Doom's eye for a bit and we don't even know if they're equal at that point.
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Gerald says that as Shadow grows, so does Doom due to their linked blood, aka Shadow and Doom are still as comparable to eachother nowadays as they were in the adventure era

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
We know that they're linked, but we don't know if they're actually equal in power.
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they are still comparable as both equally grow when one of them grow

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
For all we know, Black Doom really could've just been massively sandbagging. I just don't think Doom Wing Shadow is super-level. This is the same game that had Sonic fight Perfect Chaos in base with Shadow doing something similar but comparable to three super forms instead of one.
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Doom Wing? no, Evolved/Doom Shadow, the one with all Doom powers and the Golden Aura

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
All we've really known about Black Doom in Shadow Gens is him warping reality remotely with a significantly-weaker variant of himself while he was holed up in the Black Moon waiting for Shadow
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that is not true at all? Doom was not weaker whatsoever, he was stronger as his power grows alongside Shadow's own power

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
who was practically waiting for Shadow to match him with Devil Doom. It really is a jump to say that Doom Shadow scales to Super-level forms automatically given the context.
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what context? nothing says otherwise?

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Also I brought up the invincibility mainly because that's one of the things in the game that make it Super form-like. I'm all for Shadow rep and all, believe me. I am an avid Shadow defender and I'll die defending, but I just don't think the Doom Wing has THAT much sauce. It's saucier than most, but not the best.
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but i never used it......why talk about it with me?
 
Omegabronic said:
......why would Devil Doom as a transformation get weaker? if Black Doom only got stronger?


Gerald says that as Shadow grows, so does Doom due to their linked blood, aka Shadow and Doom are still as comparable to eachother nowadays as they were in the adventure era


they are still comparable as both equally grow when one of them grow


Doom Wing? no, Evolved/Doom Shadow, the one with all Doom powers and the Golden Aura


that is not true at all? Doom was not weaker whatsoever, he was stronger as his power grows alongside Shadow's own power


what context? nothing says otherwise?


but i never used it......why talk about it with me?
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I never said Devil Doom got weaker??? I said that Doom's Eye is weaker compared to his ACTUAL self. Most likely way weaker than actual Base Doom. only said that Black Doom got stronger and scaled somewhat similarly. Also, Gerald saying that could really just be in reference to the fact that Black Doom wanted to possess Shadow's body and become even more powerful. Again, Black Doom never fights Shadow in his base form in the game. Only Doom's Eye and it's usually a few attacks that doesn't even put it down. The transformation into Devil Doom is definitely an increase in power along with Doom Wing/Doom Shadow, but I just don't see it being as massive as an increase as a full-fledged Super Form.

Also the context more based on previous Super Form bosses getting beat by base or around characters. Also, nothing says FOR it, either. Sure you can use old stuff to compare to the new stuff, but doing that is finicky these days because of the Adventure Era-to-Modern minibossification of the Gens games.

Also, again, I never said you used it??? I was just mentioning because it's something of note due to how Doom Wing MECHANICALLY functions and the drawn comparisons. It isn't about what you said, I was just bringing it up as a talking point.
 
Hey, you think it’s possible the Eggmen escaped by white space by modifying the cuckoo clock rocket into a real dimension travel machine?

Also MORO is such a GOAT, you can’t hate the animation quality really.
 
JJSliderman said:
Hey, you think it’s possible the Eggmen escaped by white space by modifying the cuckoo clock rocket into a real dimension travel machine?

Also MORO is such a GOAT, you can’t hate the animation quality really.
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It's possible, sadly Sega was against showing how Eggman escaped from White Space.

Yeah, Moro saved this animation. It's just a shame the script has so much Bowser glazing. Moro tried to fix it but it was too much.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
I never said Devil Doom got weaker???
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then my point stands, as Black Doom is superior to all his Black Arms, some of which Shadow cannot defeat without Doom Blast, making him scale to base Shadow and making Modern Devil Doom, and Doom Shadow by proxy, a Modern Super Level character by default

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
I said that Doom's Eye is weaker compared to his ACTUAL self. Most likely way weaker than actual Base Doom. only said that Black Doom got stronger and scaled somewhat similarly. Also, Gerald saying that could really just be in reference to the fact that Black Doom wanted to possess Shadow's body and become even more powerful.
Click to expand...
Nah, there is no way to interpret this way as he speaks to Shadow growing as the reason he wants to possess him, he speaks about the simulteneous growth separately

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Again, Black Doom never fights Shadow in his base form in the game. Only Doom's Eye and it's usually a few attacks that doesn't even put it down. The transformation into Devil Doom is definitely an increase in power along with Doom Wing/Doom Shadow, but I just don't see it being as massive as an increase as a full-fledged Super Form.
Click to expand...
Devil Doom IS a Super level amp, fought Super Shadow in the adventure era when Base Doom wasn't close to that level, it IS a Super level amp, that is a fact

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Also the context more based on previous Super Form bosses getting beat by base or around characters. Also, nothing says FOR it, either. Sure you can use old stuff to compare to the new stuff, but doing that is finicky these days because of the Adventure Era-to-Modern minibossification of the Gens games.
Click to expand...
nlg, i don't see anything here that covers anything i said

ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Also, again, I never said you used it??? I was just mentioning because it's something of note due to how Doom Wing MECHANICALLY functions and the drawn comparisons. It isn't about what you said, I was just bringing it up as a talking point.
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cool? why bring it up if you know i didn't used it then?
 
JJSliderman said:
Hey, you think it’s possible the Eggmen escaped by white space by modifying the cuckoo clock rocket into a real dimension travel machine?
Also MORO is such a GOAT, you can’t hate the animation quality really.
Click to expand...
.........wdym "is it possible"? what "isn't possible" if the writter wants to?
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
I know most peeps here don't care but...


Poor Knux having his 30th anniversary low-key and during the year of Shadow.
Click to expand...

Knuckles is the Piccolo of the Sonic franchise, low-key. Dude was introduced as Sonic's rival, but got shoved to the side to being one of his friends while Shadow became the new rival to Sonic.

Hopefully there's a Knuckles' equivalent to Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero in the future, and Knuckles gets his own game like Shadow just did.
 
Omegabronic said:
then my point stands, as Black Doom is superior to all his Black Arms, some of which Shadow cannot defeat without Doom Blast, making him scale to base Shadow and making Modern Devil Doom, and Doom Shadow by proxy, a Modern Super Level character by default


Nah, there is no way to interpret this way as he speaks to Shadow growing as the reason he wants to possess him, he speaks about the simulteneous growth separately


Devil Doom IS a Super level amp, fought Super Shadow in the adventure era when Base Doom wasn't close to that level, it IS a Super level amp, that is a fact


nlg, i don't see anything here that covers anything i said


cool? why bring it up if you know i didn't used it then?
Click to expand...
Just because he needed Doom Blast to beat some of the Black Arms, it doesn't somehow chain scale him to be Super level?? That just seems like monkey court scaling and has no real correlation to one another. All it does is say that Black Doom is strong. We've seen Shadow beat previous Super-level threats in base before. Beating Devil Doom in Doom Shadow could really just be a marginal increase. The only thing that implies Super-level is referencing old material, which is somewhat outdated scaling anyway because of Sonic Verse powercreeping Adventure-Era final bosses.

Gerald says that as Shadow grows, Black Doom does as well. They're linked, sure. But we also know that Black Doom is creeping into Shadow's mind and body progressively through each of the powers he obtains or at least it's implied to. Black Doom wants to possess him because he is using and being subject to these powers. To beat Black Doom, Shadow has to get these powers, but Black Doom gains more leverage over Shadow as he gains these powers. Also, as a note, Shadow CAN actually beat the Black Arms even WITHOUT the Doom Blast. It just takes more hits than usual. It's annoying to do, but you can still do it. It isn't impossible.

The context from the GAME ITSELF dictates that past threats in the Adventure Era can be handled WITHOUT needing to go into a Super Form. Due to this, one could assume that the Devil Doom boss fight is one of these instances, but with a small caveat in that it isn't purely a base form thing, but being amped and fighting an Adventure Era threat (who is also amped). It's a bit of an equal trade. So, it's either Shadow is simply fighting an amped previous Super-level threat OR they're super level. Personally, I DON'T think they're Super level. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Also, again, it was to explain more on the point I myself and not you brought up due to the drawn comparisons between the Wings and a Super Form. I brought it up as a talking point because I thought it was worth bringing up. It isn't about what YOU talked about. It's not that deep Just move on from that.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Knuckles is the Piccolo of the Sonic franchise, low-key. Dude was introduced as Sonic's rival, but got shoved to the side to being one of his friends while Shadow became the new rival to Sonic.

Hopefully there's a Knuckles' equivalent to Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero in the future, and Knuckles gets his own game like Shadow just did.
Click to expand...
I'd say he's more like tien unfortunately... but then again maybe piccolo works, noone is quite as left behind as tien in sonic
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
It's funny because Silver's only been shown to be as strong as the other hedgehogs and people kinda just think he's secretly way stronger. It's like people who think Sonic is always holding back or something LMAO
Click to expand...
Shadow's hype might be the least annoying in this regard. Especially his uninhibited power, because at least we've seen what that's like (annihilating Mephiles and his army of clones while he had 3 Chaos Emeralds)
 
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Sir_Marvulous said:
Shadow's hype might be the least annoying in this regard. Especially his uninhibited power, because at least we've seen what that's like (annihilating Mephiles and his army of clones while he had 3 Chaos Emeralds)
Click to expand...
Speaking of which, I haven't seen anyone bring up that last part. That has crazy implications on this site, because the amp of a single Chaos Emerald is accepted as >>>>>>2x for being superior to Fake Emeralds, which are "woefully underpowered" in comparison yet superior to Power Cores, which in turn provide an at least 2x amp. Shadow would also have to leap the hurdle of Mephiles' stonewall durability

It's also accepted that each individual boost amps the already amped power, thus Shadow without his inhibitor rings should be far greater than 8 times his base strength
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Speaking of which, I haven't seen anyone bring up that last part. That has crazy implications on this site, because the amp of a single Chaos Emerald is accepted as >>>>>>2x for being superior to Fake Emeralds, which are "woefully underpowered" in comparison yet superior to Power Cores, which in turn provide an at least 2x amp. Shadow would also have to leap the hurdle of Mephiles' stonewall durability

It's also accepted that each individual boost amps the already amped power, thus Shadow without his inhibitor rings should be far greater than 8 times his base strength
Click to expand...
Mephiles had two Emeralds, but this is otherwise correct
 
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