Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Theuser789]

“Archie Agenda”, Archie Sonic was scattered across the multiverse by a DC herald, let’s be real. Death Battle has its issues with sonic scaling no doubt but you are personally treating it like they are going outta their way to spite YOU specifically. Sometimes a spade is a spade and they just go the path of least resistance (or just plain straight up have dogshit takes).

Bro, it's DC. They're the top dog of Death Battle, nobody is going to beating a DC herald any time soon. They thinking Sonic vs Flash is a far fight is insane when they thought Dragon Ball stomps Game Sonic.

 

[JJSliderman]

Well the rewrites definitely don’t help Sonic, what with the whole thing of Time Eater affecting only one timeline.

 

[Theuser789]

Well the rewrites definitely don’t help Sonic, what with the whole thing of Time Eater affecting only one timeline.

That didn't happen, downplayers just latched on to it (and most downplayers love Death Battle, wonder why).

 

[JJSliderman]

Well the rewrites all seem to focus on “the timeline”, as in, only one.
I get the statements exist for all of space time but, maybe they all refer in context to the one timeline, and maybe all the alternate scenarios like Crisis city and stardust speedway are just temporal anomalies resetting the past and bringing in the alternate scenario instead of actually bringing in new timelines.

 

[Omegabronic]

Well the rewrites all seem to focus on “the timeline”, as in, only one.
I get the statements exist for all of space time but, maybe they all refer in context to the one timeline.

......Crisis City, Stardust Speedway Bad future, 2 otther timelines, ARE IN THERE, Eggman'a "undo all my perevious defeats" also includr other universes, like Maginaryworld, seriously already talked with you about it, we have a "higher timeline" in the final boss

JJ, i know you have self admited biases against "Sonic hype", which again, i respect, but at this point you are going against everything the game says and shows......WHY?

 

[Theuser789]

Speed Sim confirms 06 timeline is a different timeline with the existence of ESP Silver, too.

 

[JJSliderman]

Didn’t the rewrite also get rid of specifically undoing his defeats to just “the past”?

I doubt Ian was thinking about hypertimeline when writing the game.

And they do kinda mention in Shadow Gens that temporal anomalies can cause these alt scenarios to pop up, from Gerald iirc.

 

[JJSliderman]

Speed Sim confirms 06 timeline is a different timeline with the existence of ESP Silver, too.

I won’t contend alt timelines existing, more just Time Eater specifically scaling to all of them has become more contentious with the rewrite.

 

[Omegabronic]

Didn’t the rewrite also get rid of specifically undoing his defeats to just “the past”?

Tell me, what changed in the Japanese version?

I doubt Ian was thinking about hypertimeline when writing the game.

And i honestly don't care about this thought of you, the game LITERALLY shows it to us

And they do kinda mention in Shadow Gens that temporal anomalies can cause these alt scenarios to pop up, from Gerald iirc.

Yeah.......by showing "earlier interations" by altering space time, aka going back for before those places where historivally erased, aka more Hypertimeline evidence

 

[Omegabronic]

I won’t contend alt timelines existing, more just Time Eater specifically scaling to all of them has become more contentious with the rewrite.

IT. DIDN'T. Stop spreading this misinformation dude, that ia factually wrong, on ALL LEVELS

 

[JJSliderman]

Saying it got more contentious isn’t misinformation because generally, when people think of timeline, they think of one universe’s space time, so Time Eater still affecting the entire cosmology is inherently more contentious.

Plus the Gens rewrites were made to tie it in closer with modern entries making the Sonic multiverse more compact iirc and reference heavy iirc.

Going back to stop events that triggered certain future actions isn’t really hypertime evidence and more just, changing the past changing the future, a common time travel element.

 

[Theuser789]

I won’t contend alt timelines existing, more just Time Eater specifically scaling to all of them has become more contentious with the rewrite.

Replacing "world" with "timeline" was the downplayers banquet, huh?

 

[JJSliderman]

Kind of yeah, unless it can be proven that Ian meant hypertime it will always be contentious.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Didn’t the rewrite also get rid of specifically undoing his defeats to just “the past”?

Wanted to pop in to say that, yes, Eggman's dialogue in the rewrite has him saying that he wanted to undo the defeats of his past. But he also claimed the Time Eater gave him and his past self control over all of time so....take that as you will.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I don't think any verse ever intented to have a Hypertimeline, it's sorta a VSBW original concept, no? The evidence says the Sonic verse does tho

 

[JJSliderman]

He says “all of time is ours to do with as we please”, which implies he hasn’t actually done anything with time yet.

 

[JJSliderman]

I don't think any verse ever intented to have a Hypertimeline, it's sorta a VSBW original concept, no? The evidence says the Sonic verse does, anyway.

Yeah no verse was intended, so when the rewrite says it only applies to one timeline it probably refers to, the standard definition of timeline, aka one universe.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah no verse was intended, so when the rewrite says it only applies to one timeline it probably refers to, the standard definition of timeline, aka one universe.

Ehh, not necessarily. Look at Dragon Ball's timeline with 12 universes. I just think most writers don't consider universes to be their own space-times tbh

 

[Theuser789]

Kind of yeah, unless it can be proven that Ian meant hypertime it will always be contentious.

People who think it isn't valid never thought it was in the valid in the first place.

 

[JJSliderman]

But yeah I guess the special stages being in white space is a good way to say that TE affected multiple timelines.

Unless the 3DS version isn’t canon.

 

[Omegabronic]

Saying it got more contentious isn’t misinformation because generally, when people think of timeline, they think of one universe’s space time, so Time Eater still affecting the entire cosmology is inherently more contentious.

It is when Japanese version stayed the literal same, and it is only contentious when people just straight up do not think about it, Crisis city is RIGHT. THERE.

You have to be desingenuous to simply ignore it, therefore no, it isn't iherently "more contentious" in any way

Plus the Gens rewrites were made to tie it in closer with modern entries making the Sonic multiverse more compact iirc and reference heavy iirc.

.......literally any proof? Tailstube made.......VERY CLEAR that there is countless, pobably even infinite timelines......Saying they want the multiverse to be "compact" is just a lie

Going back to stop events that triggered certain future actions isn’t really hypertime evidence and more just, changing the past changing the future, a common time travel element.

It is when said elements were erased on a HISTORICAL LEVELwhy did you ignore that part of my post? Don't do that aka, there is no "past" to go back to, it is gone, unless Hypertimelines are involved that is, plus it became another timeline by 06, as said in the very own game and guides

so again, stop being desingenuous, and PLEASE don't ignore very important parts of my post again

 

[Starsprite53]

But yeah I guess the special stages being in white space is a good way to say that TE affected multiple timelines.

You mean the ones Sonic access to with the giant rings? The ones that leads to other dimensions since Sonic 1?

 

[Omegabronic]

He says “all of time is ours to do with as we please”, which implies he hasn’t actually done anything with time yet.

......no it doesn't? That is a non sequitur dude, it doesn't mean that, and you know.....TE erased all of it, therefore you are just wrong here

But yeah I guess the special stages being in white space is a good way to say that TE affected multiple timelines.

Unless the 3DS version isn’t canon.

Of course you will always backpeddel into the possibity that makes it lower, of course....... if only you admited you have bias, i would respect it more, you already semi did it a while ago, i just want honesty here

 

[Omegabronic]

You mean the ones Sonic access to with the giant rings? The ones that leads to other dimensions since Sonic 1?

That we have no evidence that he enters it that way at all

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

And they do kinda mention in Shadow Gens that temporal anomalies can cause these alt scenarios to pop up, from Gerald iirc.

This is what Gerald said in Shadow Generations, specifically in the English script, though I don't know what if it proves your point: "You say that you encountered a foe you don't remember? The damage done to the time stream may be stirring up echoes of past altercations."

And in another piece of dialogue, he says: "It seems my theory was correct and time can "heal itself," to a degree. So long as the pivotal moments in history are restored, the rest will find equilibrium."

 

[Starsprite53]

Also I’m lost, on one hand, Crisis City is said to come from the timeline (that never was) before the reset, thus hypertimeline. On the other hand, it’s argued that Crisis City exists as part of a separate, split timeline.

 

[Starsprite53]

That we have no evidence that he enters it that way at all

I'm going to chock you like how Homer simpson does to Burt Simpson

 

[JJSliderman]

It is when Japanese version stayed the literal same, and it is only contentious when people just straight up do not think about it, Crisis city is RIGHT. THERE.
You have to be desingenuous to simply ignore it, therefore no, it isn't iherently "more contentious" in any way

Unless crisis city was already there due to being an erased timeline, just not sure if being an erased timeline or being erased by time eater are the correct qualification to be in White Space.

.......literally any proof? Tailstube made.......VERY CLEAR that there is countless, pobably even infinite timelines......Saying they want the multiverse to be "compact" is just a lie

It says there are endless possibilities in space and potential infinite Sonics, not timelines. Plus it, might have been retconned since it said TE affected all of space time instead of just “the timeline”.

It is when said elements were erased on a HISTORICAL LEVELwhy did you ignore that part of my post? Don't do that aka, there is no "past" to go back to, it is gone, unless Hypertimelines are involved that is, plus it became another timeline by 06, as said in the very own game and guides

so again, stop being desingenuous, and PLEASE don't ignore very important parts of my post again

Not everyone uses Prima guides cuz they can be unreliable.

But idk I guess if ESP Silver’s timeline is different from the one where Shadow Gens Mephiles comes from maybe it could still work, but ESP Silver also shouldn’t exist atp. Pretty sure Gerald also says that the temporal damage created “echoes” of past alterations, whatever that means

 

[Starsprite53]

I'm too lazy to send the gif

 

[Starsprite53]

potential infinite Sonics, not timelines

What

 

[Theuser789]

Plus it, might have been retconned since it said TE affected all of space time instead of just “the timeline”.

Ian said in a Bumblekast after Shadow Gens TE affected all of creation. Not retcon here, people are just nitpicking.

 

[Omegabronic]

This is what Gerald said in Shadow Generations, specifically in the English script, though I don't know what if it proves your point: "You say that you encountered a foe you don't remember? The damage done to the time stream may be stirring up echoes of past altercations."

And in another piece of dialogue, he says: "It seems my theory was correct and time can "heal itself," to a degree. So long as the pivotal moments in history are restored, the rest will find equilibrium."

These 2 are not really connected, the second one is explaining why past characters meeting the future cast doesn"/ alter the past

 

[Executor_N0]

The fact people think using a word in the singular means there's no way it could be used to refer to more than a single thing as an absolute makes me want for English to become like Japanese and lack proper plural of words, with only a few words having a proper "plural form". That way people would get that if you read a singular, but see a plural, they are not contradictory.

 

[JJSliderman]

Ian said in a Bumblekast after Shadow Gens TE affected all of creation. Nit retcon here, people are just nitpicking.

Was that in a leading question? Thought those weren’t allowed.

 

[Omegabronic]

Also I’m lost, on one hand, Crisis City is said to come from the timeline (that never was) before the reset, thus hypertimeline. On the other hand, it’s argued that Crisis City exists as part of a separate, split timeline.

It exists as that post Gens since Sonic restored it back to existence

 

[JJSliderman]

It exists as that post Gens since Sonic restored it back to existence

But…Mephiles’ whole goal was restoring himself, and Shadow was trying to prevent that. So, why is Sonic doing that.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

These 2 are not really connected, the second one is explaining why past characters meeting the future cast doesn"/ alter the past

Wasn't trying to defend his point, specifically. I was just sharing what Gerald said in game that's all.

I do wish that there was a translation for what Gerald says in the Japanese version of the game, though. What's available at the moment is just in game dialogue and cutscenes, none of the text dialogue between characters in White Space.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I doubt Ian was thinking about hypertimeline when writing the game.

He didn't need to. When the original writers of Generations wrote the infinite tunnel dimension into the story to have Sonic fight TE in the time stream, they didn't think about the fact that they were creating a second temporal dimension for the cosmology. Despite the fact that all of space-time was already destroyed. Doesn't change the fact that they did, since it's the only reasonable conclusion (one which is even supported in Shadow Gens where Shadow can stop time in White Space). The fact is, the english re-writes don't contradict the (still canon) Japanese script, so regardless of whether you want to believe they're referring to the hyper-timeline in the new game or not, it doesn't change the fact that Time Eater's destruction was far beyond the scope of just that one timeline. If Time Eater blew up the city that Iive in and I said "You blew up my house!", would that suddenly make it a small building level feat instead of a city level one? The same applies here with the timeline/all of space-time

 

[Theuser789]

Pretty sure Gerald also says that the temporal damage created “echoes” of past alterations, whatever that means

The different bosses.

 

[Executor_N0]

Wasn't trying to defend his point, specifically. I was just sharing what Gerald said in game that's all.

I do wish that there was a translation for what Gerald says in the Japanese version of the game, though. What's available at the moment is just in game dialogue and cutscenes, none of the text dialogue between characters in White Space.

It was been translated for a long time ago by Windii

Shadow Generations: Character Profiles & NPC Conversations

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