Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Snek]

On the topic of Eggman being exposed outside his mechs, Sages barriers dowscale from The End and in a fight like this she would have little reason to leave Eggmans side which means Eggman gets a top tier defense whenever he needs it. Also if Bowser is on the verge of winning but Sage sends Eggman to cyberspace to ensure his safety would that be considered a draw?

One last thing. If both armies were in charecter how do you imagine this fight would play out if you had to make a timeline for it?

 

[Causalist]

On the topic of Eggman being exposed outside his mechs, Sages barriers dowscale from The End and in a fight like this she would have little reason to leave Eggmans side which means Eggman gets a top tier defense whenever he needs it.

True, but Eggman's durabillity also scales to Sonic's AP, he has rings for 1-C damage transferal, Forcejewels for teleporting back to safety and preventing forced teleportation, and weapons on his person to defend himself if necessary.

Also if Bowser is on the verge of winning but Sage sends Eggman to cyberspace to ensure his safety would that be considered a draw?

Characters aren't allowed to flee from battle in DB, so no.

One last thing. If both armies were in charecter how do you imagine this fight would play out if you had to make a timeline for it?

We are trying to account for their personalities in-character as much as possible, but it's kind of hard when they have access to SO MUCH stuff in this fight. Sage's analysis would ultimately still make Eggman more likely to resort to good hax though. Her whole purpose is to make the most rational and calculated decisions. We don't have to tell Eggman to stop being stupid and just use his insta-win hax because Sage should already do that for us.

 

[Causalist]

How can Light Man Eggman be countered?
"Hooo boy. Here we go. So, as we went over, Sonic has resisted reality warping and mind manipulation in the past. He and his friends have resisted transmutation as well, and have acausality type 1. Yet all of them were powerless to Light Man Eggman's Egg Field and its reality warping, memory manipulation, and causality manipulation. This is no surprise since we actually learn that this specific version of the Egg Field is derived from an infinite other-dimensional realm. The only reason they ever stood a chance was because of the Chaos Emeralds. They were the ones responsible for preserving the characters' essence, and the reason they could come back to normal, and by the end of the story, Eggman had such mastery over the Egg Field that even Chaos Emerald users who had managed to recover from the Egg Field's effect were now being affected. It's only after Sonic had collected all 7 Emeralds that he finally had enough Chaos Energy to resist it outright, and nullify it. This means that the argument that "heart" is enough to counter the Egg Field is contradicted by the story itself. So what does Bowser have to counter this 5D, causality, and reality warping hax which is essentially an instant win condition over the entire battlefield? The Pure Hearts won't work. Some people have brought this up as a counter, but even if "heart" could counter the Egg Field, this argument would still be a nominal fallacy. The better argument is Fawful's mind control gas, and how the minion spirit could allows Bowser's troops to break free from it. Unfortunately, this argument stills falls falt since even a resistance to Fawful's upgraded version of the gas, which is layered, would still pales in comparison to the potency of Light Man's Egg Field, which is multi-layered even if for some reason you want to completely ignore the fact that it's 5D. Fawful's gas amounts to brain washing, too, which is not at all comparable to memory manipulation induced by reality warping and causality manipulation. Bowser's only hope against this is to either kill Eggman before he activates it or somehow be aware that it's coming and teleport out of its range. Its area of effect is at least larger than Sonic's Earth, which has several pieces of evidence indicating that it is MUCH larger than our Earth, and since information analysis is off the table against the Phantom Ruby, Bowser's only possible way of knowing what's coming is communicating with Kamek as he's using his precognition, which isn't in-character because Kamek's precognition sucks and gets hard countered by Super Neo and Supreme's type 4 acausality anyway."

Is there something I can add to improve this? All help is welcome

 

[Theuser789]

But isn't that sort of irrelevant when the effects of the Phantom Ruby are real? When Infinite created that sun to wipe out the Resistance, it was going to literally do that despite said sun being an illusion.

Say that to the researcher and his logic. You're probably going to see that type of logic in the episode.

Speaking of wonky logic, if Bowser can transmutate an planetary army with one spell, why didn't he do that in Bowser's Inside Story against Fawful? Did he just forget his haxlord powers?

 

[Theuser789]

Cyberspace is a massive boon to the Eggman Empire, simply on the raw fact Sage can essentially seal almost all of the Koopa Kingdom into it and essentially cause a massive game over for most the fighters. Especially since a lot of the ways people think the Koopa Kingdom could survive simply wouldn't work. For example, King Boo's Dimensional Travel likely won’t be effective, because the transport that forces you into Cyberspace isn’t just some ordinary Dimensional Travel anyone can use. It’s travel that specifically defies Laws, causing “logical disparities” and “drags them down to the bottom of causality.” In fact, when Sonic attempts to defy his Cyber Corruption, Sage verbatim doubles down on this and says to do this Sonic must be trying to transcend causality. It’s a bit more unique than the average portal or teleport, (especially since Dimensional Travel in Sonic exists and doesn't do this, see Chaos Control and Warp Rings), so it's likely not something he could evade unless his own DT specifically showed these properties.

Better still, it traps you between dimensions. Hard to travel between them if you’re stuck in their middle. And even if they escape, it shouldn't matter, because that leads into the corruption, which causes mutations and in digitiation limits (certain) abilities. This corruption also traps your soul instead of your physical form. So the Boos would be kept out of the picture regardless if they were trapped in Cyberspace, because they are literally ghosts who would have their souls (ie their literal forms as they are materialied/undead spirits AKA souls).

This also means that a lot of the Koopa Troop simply could not do anything, since most can't travel dimensions regardless.

King Boo hacking a camera for 5 seconds counters all of this.

 

[Remus1998]

Cyberspace is a massive boon to the Eggman Empire, simply on the raw fact Sage can essentially seal almost all of the Koopa Kingdom into it and essentially cause a massive game over for most the fighters. Especially since a lot of the ways people think the Koopa Kingdom could survive simply wouldn't work. For example, King Boo's Dimensional Travel likely won’t be effective, because the transport that forces you into Cyberspace isn’t just some ordinary Dimensional Travel anyone can use. It’s travel that specifically defies Laws, causing “logical disparities” and “drags them down to the bottom of causality.” In fact, when Sonic attempts to defy his Cyber Corruption, Sage verbatim doubles down on this and says to do this Sonic must be trying to transcend causality. It’s a bit more unique than the average portal or teleport, (especially since Dimensional Travel in Sonic exists and doesn't do this, see Chaos Control and Warp Rings), so it's likely not something he could evade unless his own DT specifically showed these properties.

There's also the fact that Dimensional Travel doesn't counter Sealing

 

[Theuser789]

Bowser can counter sealing with the Power Stars so they're probably using that as an argument (doesn't save him from Cyber Corruption but I don't think they care).

 

[Remus1998]

Bowser can counter sealing with the Power Stars so they're probably using that as an argument (doesn't save him from Cyber Corruption but I don't think they care).

I fail to see how removing seals from castle doors nullifies sealing which locks off an entire universe

 

[Theuser789]

I fail to see how removing seals from castle doors nullifies sealing which locks off an entire universe

Me neither but Death Battle is probably using that as an argument.

 

[Oreo166]

You mean the new game that just came out? It won't be accounted for in the Death Battle. Same with Shadow Generations.

I honestly don’t see why it wouldn’t, given the fact that they accounted for Deku’s Gearshift — which had only debuted a month before Deku vs Asta.

 

[JJSliderman]

Say that to the researcher and his logic. You're probably going to see that type of logic in the episode.

Speaking of wonky logic, if Bowser can transmutate a planetary army with one spell, why didn't he do that in Bowser's Inside Story against Fawful? Did he just forget his haxlord powers?

The obvious answer is cuz the game wouldn’t happen

 

[Oreo166]

Sage's analysis would ultimately still make Eggman more likely to resort to good hax though. Her whole purpose is to make the most rational and calculated decisions. We don't have to tell Eggman to stop being stupid and just use his insta-win hax because Sage should already do that for us.

Watch DB say that Eggman would be too dumb to listen to her just cuz he was too hateful of Sonic to work with him like she suggested

 

[Theuser789]

The obvious answer is cuz the game wouldn’t happen

Oooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrr this isn't something Bowser spams in character. How about that?

 

[JJSliderman]

True.

 

[Alexander]

Is prima guide still relaible to this point?

 

[JJSliderman]

Hard to say, sometimes the little random filler text they put in we use as evidence isn’t really checked by SEGA.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

It is my Sonic Question time, out of all the powerful items/power ups in the Sonic franchise which one will you have IRL?

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

Personally I'm picking the extra life, a free resurrection and retry (should the worst happen) in life would quite literally be a lifesaver.

 

[Alexander]

It is my Sonic Question time, out of all the powerful items/power ups in the Sonic franchise which one will you have IRL?

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

Personally I'm picking the extra life, a free resurrection and retry (should the worst happen) in life would quite literally be a lifesaver.

Time stones

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Time stones

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

Read the question again bud.

 

[RedReaper616]

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

Time stones

Guess again, fellow Eggster.

EDIT: Ninja’d.

 

[MysticMania]

Magic Hands could be really useful. But, I'll go for the Ark of the Cosmos. Cool colors, and gravity control. I'd pick between either the pink Ark, green Ark, yellow Ark, or blue Ark, I think.

 

[Alexander]

Read the question again bud.

then the...the special sneakers

 

[RedReaper616]

It is my Sonic Question time, out of all the powerful items/power ups in the Sonic franchise which one will you have IRL?

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

Personally I'm picking the extra life, a free resurrection and retry (should the worst happen) in life would quite literally be a lifesaver.

Unironically, this is obscure, but I’m of the same brain. So I’m picking the Continuation Monitor from the 16 bit version of Sonic, which does the same thing, but gives me THREE extra lives instead.

 

[Theuser789]

It is my Sonic Question time, out of all the powerful items/power ups in the Sonic franchise which one will you have IRL?

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

Personally I'm picking the extra life, a free resurrection and retry (should the worst happen) in life would quite literally be a lifesaver.

Wisps. I like 'em.

 

[JJSliderman]

Probably extreme gear

Clean fuel, the ability to fly anywhere, and special hax.

 

[Causalist]

I honestly don’t see why it wouldn’t, given the fact that they accounted for Deku’s Gearshift — which had only debuted a month before Deku vs Asta.

Well in that case, clearly they'll also include Sonic Speed Sim, right?

 

[JJSliderman]

They barely included gearshift, it was present in the animation for like a second

 

[ShakeResounding]

It is my Sonic Question time, out of all the powerful items/power ups in the Sonic franchise which one will you have IRL?

Extreme Gear for sure.

Just the idea seems rad. And with IDW giving other characters Extreme Gears, it would be cool to try it out. The page for it is gonna be sick.

 

[Causalist]

Yall are likely to kill yourselves driving an extreme gear with the amount of skill required for it. I'll go with Redreaper's answer instead. I wanna live

 

[ShakeResounding]

Yall are likely to kill yourselves driving an extreme gear with the amount of skill required for it.

Even BETTER! =]

 

[Causalist]

Even BETTER! =]

Should've picked the Eggman monitor while you're at it smh

 

[MysticMania]

Yall are likely to kill yourselves driving an extreme gear with the amount of skill required for it. I'll go with Redreaper's answer instead. I wanna live

You are correct but it's no more dangerous than driving on roads with elderly who haven't had a license test since they were 3, so

 

[JJSliderman]

Yall are likely to kill yourselves driving an extreme gear with the amount of skill required for it. I'll go with Redreaper's answer instead. I wanna live

Fortress makes you invincible just by standing on it

 

[Fireld]

It is my Sonic Question time, out of all the powerful items/power ups in the Sonic franchise which one will you have IRL?

Warp/Big Rings

Yall are likely to kill yourselves driving an extreme gear with the amount of skill required for it. I'll go with Redreaper's answer instead. I wanna live

They must be passionate pro-sportists

You are correct but it's no more dangerous than driving on roads with elderly who haven't had a license test since they were 3, so

 

[Causalist]

Fortress makes you invincible just by standing on it

Good luck standing on it while it's moving through the air at supersonic speed

 

[ShakeResounding]

I was originally gonna argue something like the Heal Gun from Shadow but that doesn't have much value past the initial magazine lol

 

[MysticMania]

I was originally gonna argue something like the Heal Gun from Shadow but that doesn't have much value past the initial magazine lol

Metal stick? For bludgeoning ? Expand Your Mind

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

The Phantom Ruby, so I can perpetually tweak to my own delusions.

GAPE IN AWE AT THE BURNING SUN
A TANGLED MESH, INSANE, DIVINE
NEAR INFINITE MIGHTY SOURCE
OF A DAY NOT BOUND TO END

That tune fits Ruby users perfectly.

However to keep things interesting and different from the previous question time all stones of power (you know the ones from Sol to Chaos to Time and more) are banned, so let's be creative here.

DB fans and literacy issues. A tale as old as time

 

[JJSliderman]

So, final thoughts before the episode, definitely feel like Bowser will win off countering existence erasure and egg field with pure hearts and minion spirit, and also boos possessing Eggman’s mechs, Metal virus being countered by Bowser’s heat and many of his troops being inorganic, Kamek having layered transmutation and (supposedly) island spanning magic, and Bowser swiping the Egg McGuffins. Along with I guess downplaying Sage’s cyber corruption and scanning ability, saying Metal is a weak sauce barely above base form character, and saying Eggman’s arrogance will screw him over along with his reliance on machines that can be mass taken out by Bowser’s transmutation or other hax (maybe say Chaotix Recital and blue wisp are game mechanics)

 

[Alexander]

So, final thoughts before the episode, definitely feel like Bowser will win off countering existence erasure and egg field with pure hearts and minion spirit, and also boos possessing Eggman’s mechs, Metal virus being countered by Bowser’s heat and many of his troops being inorganic, Kamek having layered transmutation and (supposedly) island spanning magic, and Bowser swiping the Egg McGuffins. Along with I guess downplaying Sage’s cyber corruption and scanning ability, saying Metal is a weak sauce barely above base form character, and saying Eggman’s arrogance will screw him over along with his reliance on machines that can be mass taken out by Bowser’s transmutation or other hax (maybe say Chaotix Recital and blue wisp are game mechanics)

There is still, a pixel of hope