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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Executor_N0 said:
I think it's sad, I enjoy Ian's work as a character writer and also sometimes he wants to connect a few things, but I'm mostly someone who enjoys character and world settings just as much as character writing, and considering there's someone that seems to know well how to do both (Eitaro Toyoda), just gives me the notion "Just let Toyoda do everything". Of course, this wouldn't matter as much if someone at Sonic Team was more sure about the world and character settings as I would like them to be.


It's definitely a bit of trolling, but still under the notion that "It needs to just be a time stop, so there's something wrong with that", at least is what I got. Although I'm sure there are other Chaos Control examples of warp that are directly shown or called like that, such as Sonic Rivals which literally has Shadow crossing dimensions.
Click to expand...
Among a dozen other examples, an important plot point of Shadow 05 is that the Black Comet can't enter the atmosphere on it's own,thus Black Doom needing to WARP it down to earth with the emeralds. No amount of "time stop" was gonna help that.

Death of The Author,indeed.
 
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I imagine it’s trolling also, because he straight up has had Shadow teleport WITHIN IDW via Chaos Control. I imagine he just believes there is a range limit, which whilst weird considering how Shadow can travel dimensions with it, isn’t too out there. Given Ian loves Dragon Ball, I imagine he views it much like Instant Transmission—Goku can teleport across the dimensions of the Macrocosm easily, but he struggles to get across the entire Mortal Universe with that power due to sensory range. Except in this case the range limit for a character like Shadow is built into the technique itself and not the user’s energy sensory ability.
 
Technically double posting, but support of my point here. Silver says there is a “range limit.”

sdczul3d1la91.png


Very loosely defined, but existent.
 
RedReaper616 said:
I imagine it’s trolling also, because he straight up has had Shadow teleport WITHIN IDW via Chaos Control. I imagine he just believes there is a range limit, which whilst weird considering how Shadow can travel dimensions with it, isn’t too out there.
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There are of course cases in which they can warp into space, in one of the Sonic Channel stories Shadow was going to send a bomb to outer space using Chaos Control, but due to the faulty state of the Chaos Emeralds during that story, he couldn't go that far. So under right cases, Shadow should be able to warp into space. In general, it would be more of Ian nerfing the chaos abilities nevertheless (Still, quite funny considering we now have Black Doom literally creating dimensions and warping space-time).
 
I don't mean this rudely, but people do need to stop treating Ian as if he is literally the sole person working on Sonic. There's a whole company, team, lore team, many writers, and many people in general that Ian works with. If he personally think Chaos Control is just time manipulation, SEGA's not going to go "well shit, why not. time manip". There are so many parts within this clock, so, you cannot hate one screw because you have assumed it runs the whole thing.
 
MysticMania said:
I don't mean this rudely, but people do need to stop treating Ian as if he is literally the sole person working on Sonic. There's a whole company, team, lore team, many writers, and many people in general that Ian works with. If he personally think Chaos Control is just time manipulation, SEGA's not going to go "well shit, why not. time manip". There are so many parts within this clock, so, you cannot hate one screw because you have assumed it runs the whole thing.
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That's exactly it. The problem is that this screw speaks on behalf of the whole clock, completely contradicting it. He's not saying "I wish Chaos Control only stopped time". He said that it only stops time, and this is just one example of him doing this.
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
That's exactly it. The problem is that this screw speaks on behalf of the whole clock, completely contradicting it. He's not saying "I wish Chaos Control only stopped time". He said that it only stops time, and this is just one example of him doing this.
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How does this affect Sonic officially, though?
 
The Bumblekasts are not meant to be official news outlets on Sonic as a franchise in the first place, though. If one is watching them for news on Sonic, they would be better going to a source specifically for that, like IDWSonicNews on Twitter, for example.

For me, I like watching the Bumblekasts to hear Ian and Kyle's thoughts on things. I don't watch it for powerscaling information, which is a community that I'm pretty sure Ian has expressed before that he isn't in. So, I don't view watching them as useless at all. It's valid if you do, but, the Bumblekasts are not meant to be official declarations of the Sonic franchise in the first place, really, nor are they meant for powerscaling, if either reason is why you watch them.
 
Maybe this is only relevant to the start of the conversation but I'm going to say it anyways. I wouldn't mind idw Sonic being nerfed if idw was a separate continuity from the game's and if they were consistent in how nerfed they were.
 
I'm not at all trying to say that you, nor anyone here is claiming the opposite of this but: Ian Flynn, and every single person who has ever worked on Sonic, will always be a person far, far far far before they are ever "employee of SEGA". For example, I've seen the writer for Mimic's 2024 Annual story, Gigi, retweet some fanart of him. That isn't Gigi making a declaration on Sonic lore that all Sonic fans just must tune into. She is sharing something she enjoys, and cares for. Many working on Sonic have expressed personal care and personal ideas for the franchise, including Ian Flynn. And too, is the Bumblekast personal, far before it is ever an official outlet for Sonic information. So, if something is said about the franchise at large, it's important to know that there is more to how the Sonic franchise happens than one person's word and thoughts. For example as well, SEGA wanted Sonic Frontiers out by 2021, which as some would say; ******* sucks. But thankfully, this didn't happen.

Every single person on this franchise should always be known and treated as a person. And, this should be done eternally before ever trying to treat them as mouthpieces, news outlets, gears in a clock, or names working for a company.
 
MysticMania said:
The Bumblekasts are not meant to be official news outlets on Sonic as a franchise in the first place, though. If one is watching them for news on Sonic, they would be better going to a source specifically for that, like IDWSonicNews on Twitter, for example.

For me, I like watching the Bumblekasts to hear Ian and Kyle's thoughts on things. I don't watch it for powerscaling information, which is a community that I'm pretty sure Ian has expressed before that he isn't in. So, I don't view watching them as useless at all. It's valid if you do, but, the Bumblekasts are not meant to be official declarations of the Sonic franchise in the first place, really, nor are they meant for powerscaling, if either reason is why you watch them.
Click to expand...
Oh, I know they're not meant for power-scalling. Trust me. I resent power-scalers for asking Ian ultra-specific "questions" that are really just "Hey Ian! Read my huge essay about string theory, type 4 multiverses, and other shit you don't care about and agree with it so I can prove to all the haters that Sonic is SOOOO OP"

Other than that, fair enough. Glad you can get something out of it where I can't.
 
MysticMania said:
I don't mean this rudely, but people do need to stop treating Ian as if he is literally the sole person working on Sonic. There's a whole company, team, lore team, many writers, and many people in general that Ian works with. If he personally think Chaos Control is just time manipulation, SEGA's not going to go "well shit, why not. time manip". There are so many parts within this clock, so, you cannot hate one screw because you have assumed it runs the whole thing.
Click to expand...
Even though it's of course only his opinion, that will, of course, affect the writing, and depending on how things are handled, it's likely SEGA doesn't even know that Ian would be working under that assumption. If Ian thinks X, he will write thinking X, and if the reason behind a decision Y seems to not care much to SEGA, they would likely not say something about it, that is likely more a case of background stuff that rarely even matters in stories. The reason why Shadow could not decide to use Chaos Control could just be that the person writing didn't think about that and thought looking for a spaceship would be cooler, stuff like this happens all the time with broken abilities because sometimes writers just prefer to ignore them in favor of something "more interesting", which I think is 100% fair more often than not.

But knowing that it could be not a case of "Let's just gloss over that contradiction because the story is better doing X instead of Y", but rather "I don't think Y is true, so I'm not considering it while writing and so I do X instead", that is the type of stuff that I dislike. So yes, even though more often than not what is on the Bumblekast is just what Ian thinks, it's clear that what he thinks will somehow shape what he writes even considering the times that SEGA does some supervision to change something for some reason. So knowing what he thinks gives insight into what I can expect about his work, knowing that will of course shape how I think about his work.

Of course, some people will just ignore whatever Ian writes because they think the work of Z or W has more value than his, so they just headcanon it as not mattering, but at that point I think it can hurt the experience with the franchise.
 
Executor_N0 said:
But knowing that it could be not a case of "Let's just gloss over that contradiction because the story is better doing X instead of Y", but rather "I don't think Y is true, so I'm not considering it while writing and so I do X instead", that is the type of stuff that I dislike. So yes, even though more often than not what is on the Bumblekast is just what Ian thinks, it's clear that what he thinks will somehow shape what he writes even considering the times that SEGA does some supervision to change something for some reason. So knowing what he thinks gives insight into what I can expect about his work, knowing that will of course shape how I think about his work.

Of course, some people will just ignore whatever Ian writes because they think the work of Z or W has more value than his, so they just headcanon it as not mattering, but at that point I think it can hurt the experience with the franchise.
Click to expand...
You put it better than I did. Exactly this.
 
Executor_N0 said:
Even though it's of course only his opinion, that will, of course, affect the writing, and depending on how things are handled, it's likely SEGA doesn't even know that Ian would be working under that assumption. If Ian thinks X, he will write thinking X, and if the reason behind a decision Y seems to not care much to SEGA, they would likely not say something about it, that is likely more a case of background stuff that rarely even matters in stories. The reason why Shadow could not decide to use Chaos Control could just be that the person writing didn't think about that and thought looking for a spaceship would be cooler, stuff like this happens all the time with broken abilities because sometimes writers just prefer to ignore them in favor of something "more interesting", which I think is 100% fair more often than not.

But knowing that it could be not a case of "Let's just gloss over that contradiction because the story is better doing X instead of Y", but rather "I don't think Y is true, so I'm not considering it while writing and so I do X instead", that is the type of stuff that I dislike. So yes, even though more often than not what is on the Bumblekast is just what Ian thinks, it's clear that what he thinks will somehow shape what he writes even considering the times that SEGA does some supervision to change something for some reason. So knowing what he thinks gives insight into what I can expect about his work, knowing that will of course shape how I think about his work.

Of course, some people will just ignore whatever Ian writes because they think the work of Z or W has more value than his, so they just headcanon it as not mattering, but at that point I think it can hurt the experience with the franchise.
Click to expand...
Don't you think there is already to many hurt things?
 
I have seen the idea shared around of Shadow running through the mountains of Chaos Island while Super Sonic is fighting Knight.
 
Alexander said:
Don't you think there is already to many hurt things?
Click to expand...
For me it depends on the situation, I don't engage with Sonic as much as I used to, so since I spend more time doing other stuff, I end up not considering the effect of what Ian or other people do. I'm sure people who care more about certain elements than me will have a much harder opinion of Ian than me, even though I think he has a lot of weight on the series, sometimes more than he thinks of himself considering the overall context.
 
vsbattles.com

Amy vs Rouge Rematch

Last time this matchup happened here was in 2020. A LOT has changed since then. Not to mention some arguments in the original thread were kind of flawed in my opinion. Anyway, standard battle assumptions Modern versions used Battle takes place in Station Square Amy: Rouge: Incon:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
I never thought I would find myself using the sexuality of Sonic characters as a counter-argument in a VS debate, but here we are
 
That does remind me. I don't think I ever will, but I almost want to make a "sonic character age crt". Not that it would matter, but I'm annoyed of SEGA saying that Sonic is 15 and also having the first page of the first issue of their canonical comic start with "Sonic the hedgehog has spent -->years<-- fighting the forces of Dr. Eggman".

this isn't serious because i don't know how to make a CRT nor what CRT stands for
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
vsbattles.com

Amy vs Rouge Rematch

Last time this matchup happened here was in 2020. A LOT has changed since then. Not to mention some arguments in the original thread were kind of flawed in my opinion. Anyway, standard battle assumptions Modern versions used Battle takes place in Station Square Amy: Rouge: Incon:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
I never thought I would find myself using the sexuality of Sonic characters as a counter-argument in a VS debate, but here we are
Click to expand...
Really sexuality? She can do it to robots for crying out loud. Her wiles work on anyone in Riders. She's got some Boa Hancock type crap where she can attract most people in her verse despite their age, gender, will/heart or lack there of.
Can't believe I posted this, damn you Pep...
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
Is Ian not just admitting he made a mistake in a cheeky and snarky way? He’s literally saying that Sonic can’t get back to the ARK if Chaos Control can only time-stop.
Click to expand...
No. He's blaming Sega. This is Ian saying Sega sure are stupid for not realizing that. Remember, Ian always blames these retcons on "Sega telling him stuff". This is just like when he said the Master Emerald has no powers because Sega told him that
 
Theuser789 said:
Is Ian seriously blaming his own retcon on Sega? Again? Because he's the one who brought up the "Chaos Control can't warp space" limitation.

This is why I don't like him. He makes mistakes and bad writing and blames it all on Sega instead of owning up to it.
Click to expand...
Sounds simularly to Dave Filoni with SW
 
Theuser789 said:
No. He's blaming Sega. This is Ian saying Sega sure are stupid for not realizing that. Remember, Ian always blames these retcons on "Sega telling him stuff". This is just like when he said the Master Emerald has no powers because Sega told him that
Click to expand...
but to be honest Shadow being edgy is definitely Sega fault
 
Ian is even adding his weird retcon headcanon in official Sonic material like the descriptions of Sonic Fast Friends Forever. What he does clearly affects the main series.
GZgRHeIWYA0tEUT


Thankfully, Iizuka and company disagree with him and keep making Chaos Control warp space.
 
Fireld said:
[ISPOILER]Really sexuality? She can do it to robots for crying out loud. Her wiles work on anyone in Riders. She's got some Boa Hancock type crap where she can attract most people in her verse despite their age, gender, will/heart or lack there of.
Can't believe I posted this, damn you Pep...[/ISPOILER]
Click to expand...
Anyone else remember how Rouge beat Tails in their 1v1 during the sonic x tournament arc.
 
Theuser789 said:
No. He's blaming Sega. This is Ian saying Sega sure are stupid for not realizing that. Remember, Ian always blames these retcons on "Sega telling him stuff". This is just like when he said the Master Emerald has no powers because Sega told him that
Click to expand...
Wait, he’s said before that Sega told him that’s how Chaos Control works?
 
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Theuser789 said:
No. He's blaming Sega. This is Ian saying Sega sure are stupid for not realizing that. Remember, Ian always blames these retcons on "Sega telling him stuff".
Click to expand...
.....yes..........you must have proof otherwise right? As he said, things are constantly changing, so he also said to not take all he says as irremutable facts as the lore is in constant shift

Theuser789 said:
This is just like when he said the Master Emerald has no powers because Sega told him that
Click to expand...
When did he said that?
 
Theuser789 said:
Ian is even adding his weird retcon headcanon in official Sonic material like the descriptions of Sonic Fast Friends Forever. What he does clearly affects the main series.
GZgRHeIWYA0tEUT


Thankfully, Iizuka and company disagree with him and keep making Chaos Control warp space.
Click to expand...
......this is a Sega aproved official Bio, THEY AGREE WITH WHAT IS THERE, and they ARE THE ONES WHO DECIDED WHAT WOULD BE THERE, Ian clarrified this with Silver's time travel method, it wasn't his decision, he just wrotte based on the guidelines given to him


Dude, he wrotte metal virus where CC is described as space warp/teleportation, if you stopped to think instead of just wanting to hate on Ian you would realise how he isn't the "evil hack who wants to ruin sonic with his views" as you for some reason think he is
 
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