Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Executor_N0]

I think it's sad, I enjoy Ian's work as a character writer and also sometimes he wants to connect a few things, but I'm mostly someone who enjoys character and world settings just as much as character writing, and considering there's someone that seems to know well how to do both (Eitaro Toyoda), just gives me the notion "Just let Toyoda do everything". Of course, this wouldn't matter as much if someone at Sonic Team was more sure about the world and character settings as I would like them to be.

Is that him just lightly trolling or what exactly? Because I'm pretty sure that second comment is him being sarcastic or something like that

It's definitely a bit of trolling, but still under the notion that "It needs to just be a time stop, so there's something wrong with that", at least is what I got. Although I'm sure there are other Chaos Control examples of warp that are directly shown or called like that, such as Sonic Rivals which literally has Shadow crossing dimensions.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

I think it's sad, I enjoy Ian's work as a character writer and also sometimes he wants to connect a few things, but I'm mostly someone who enjoys character and world settings just as much as character writing, and considering there's someone that seems to know well how to do both (Eitaro Toyoda), just gives me the notion "Just let Toyoda do everything". Of course, this wouldn't matter as much if someone at Sonic Team was more sure about the world and character settings as I would like them to be.


It's definitely a bit of trolling, but still under the notion that "It needs to just be a time stop, so there's something wrong with that", at least is what I got. Although I'm sure there are other Chaos Control examples of warp that are directly shown or called like that, such as Sonic Rivals which literally has Shadow crossing dimensions.

Among a dozen other examples, an important plot point of Shadow 05 is that Black Comet can't enter the atmosphere on it's own,thus Black Doom needing to WARP it down to earth with the emeralds. No amount of "time stop" was gonna help that.

Death of The Author,indeed.

 

[RedReaper616]

I imagine it’s trolling also, because he straight up has had Shadow teleport WITHIN IDW via Chaos Control. I imagine he just believes there is a range limit, which whilst weird considering how Shadow can travel dimensions with it, isn’t too out there. Given Ian loves Dragon Ball, I imagine he views it much like Instant Transmission—Goku can teleport across the dimensions of the Macrocosm easily, but he struggles to get across the entire Mortal Universe with that power due to sensory range. Except in this case the range limit for a character like Shadow is built into the technique itself and not the user’s energy sensory ability.

 

[RedReaper616]

Technically double posting, but support of my point here. Silver says there is a “range limit.”

Very loosely defined, but existent.

 

[Executor_N0]

I imagine it’s trolling also, because he straight up has had Shadow teleport WITHIN IDW via Chaos Control. I imagine he just believes there is a range limit, which whilst weird considering how Shadow can travel dimensions with it, isn’t too out there.

There are of course cases in which they can warp into space, in one of the Sonic Channel stories Shadow was going to send a bomb to outer space using Chaos Control, but due to the faulty state of the Chaos Emeralds during that story, he couldn't go that far. So under right cases, Shadow should be able to warp into space. In general, it would be more of Ian nerfing the chaos abilities nevertheless (Still, quite funny considering we now have Black Doom literally creating dimensions and warping space-time).

 

[MysticMania]

I don't mean this rudely, but people do need to stop treating Ian as if he is literally the sole person working on Sonic. There's a whole company, team, lore team, many writers, and many people in general that Ian works with. If he personally think Chaos Control is just time manipulation, SEGA's not going to go "well shit, why not. time manip". There are so many parts within this clock, so, you cannot hate one screw because you have assumed it runs the whole thing.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

"It doesn't warp space." So you're telling me that the Biolizard stopped time, slowly scooted through the Ark's hull, then slowly crammed the Eclipse Cannon up it's ass? Gotcha.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I don't mean this rudely, but people do need to stop treating Ian as if he is literally the sole person working on Sonic. There's a whole company, team, lore team, many writers, and many people in general that Ian works with. If he personally think Chaos Control is just time manipulation, SEGA's not going to go "well shit, why not. time manip". There are so many parts within this clock, so, you cannot hate one screw because you have assumed it runs the whole thing.

That's exactly it. The problem is that this screw speaks on behalf of the whole clock, completely contradicting it. He's not saying "I wish Chaos Control only stopped time". He said that it only stops time, and this is just one example of him doing this.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

"It doesn't warp space" So you're telling me that the Biolizard stopped time, slowly scooted through the Ark's hull, then slowly crammed the eclipse cannon up it's ass. Gotcha.

Laughed out loud

 

[MysticMania]

That's exactly it. The problem is that this screw speaks on behalf of the whole clock, completely contradicting it. He's not saying "I wish Chaos Control only stopped time". He said that it only stops time, and this is just one example of him doing this.

How does this affect Sonic officially, though?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

How does this affect Sonic officially, though?

It spreads misinformation, making everything more confusing than it has to be. It makes watching Bublecasts almost completely useless. I seriously don't see the point in them. It also affects Ian's writing, causing even more contradictions

 

[MysticMania]

The Bumblekasts are not meant to be official news outlets on Sonic as a franchise in the first place, though. If one is watching them for news on Sonic, they would be better going to a source specifically for that, like IDWSonicNews on Twitter, for example.

For me, I like watching the Bumblekasts to hear Ian and Kyle's thoughts on things. I don't watch it for powerscaling information, which is a community that I'm pretty sure Ian has expressed before that he isn't in. So, I don't view watching them as useless at all. It's valid if you do, but, the Bumblekasts are not meant to be official declarations of the Sonic franchise in the first place, really, nor are they meant for powerscaling, if either reason is why you watch them.

 

[Snek]

Maybe this is only relevant to the start of the conversation but I'm going to say it anyways. I wouldn't mind idw Sonic being nerfed if idw was a separate continuity from the game's and if they were consistent in how nerfed they were.

 

[MysticMania]

I'm not at all trying to say that you, nor anyone here is claiming the opposite of this but: Ian Flynn, and every single person who has ever worked on Sonic, will always be a person far, far far far before they are ever "employee of SEGA". For example, I've seen the writer for Mimic's 2024 Annual story, Gigi, retweet some fanart of him. That isn't Gigi making a declaration on Sonic lore that all Sonic fans just must tune into. She is sharing something she enjoys, and cares for. Many working on Sonic have expressed personal care and personal ideas for the franchise, including Ian Flynn. And too, is the Bumblekast personal, far before it is ever an official outlet for Sonic information. So, if something is said about the franchise at large, it's important to know that there is more to how the Sonic franchise happens than one person's word and thoughts. For example as well, SEGA wanted Sonic Frontiers out by 2021, which as some would say; ******* sucks. But thankfully, this didn't happen.

Every single person on this franchise should always be known and treated as a person. And, this should be done eternally before ever trying to treat them as mouthpieces, news outlets, gears in a clock, or names working for a company.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

The Bumblekasts are not meant to be official news outlets on Sonic as a franchise in the first place, though. If one is watching them for news on Sonic, they would be better going to a source specifically for that, like IDWSonicNews on Twitter, for example.

For me, I like watching the Bumblekasts to hear Ian and Kyle's thoughts on things. I don't watch it for powerscaling information, which is a community that I'm pretty sure Ian has expressed before that he isn't in. So, I don't view watching them as useless at all. It's valid if you do, but, the Bumblekasts are not meant to be official declarations of the Sonic franchise in the first place, really, nor are they meant for powerscaling, if either reason is why you watch them.

Oh, I know they're not meant for power-scalling. Trust me. I resent power-scalers for asking Ian ultra-specific "questions" that are really just "Hey Ian! Read my huge essay about string theory, type 4 multiverses, and other shit you don't care about and agree with it so I can prove to all the haters that Sonic is SOOOO OP"

Other than that, fair enough. Glad you can get something out of it where I can't.

 

[Executor_N0]

I don't mean this rudely, but people do need to stop treating Ian as if he is literally the sole person working on Sonic. There's a whole company, team, lore team, many writers, and many people in general that Ian works with. If he personally think Chaos Control is just time manipulation, SEGA's not going to go "well shit, why not. time manip". There are so many parts within this clock, so, you cannot hate one screw because you have assumed it runs the whole thing.

Even though it's of course only his opinion, that will, of course, affect the writing, and depending on how things are handled, it's likely SEGA doesn't even know that Ian would be working under that assumption. If Ian thinks X, he will write thinking X, and if the reason behind a decision Y seems to not care much to SEGA, they would likely not say something about it, that is likely more a case of background stuff that rarely even matters in stories. The reason why Shadow could not decide to use Chaos Control could just be that the person writing didn't think about that and thought looking for a spaceship would be cooler, stuff like this happens all the time with broken abilities because sometimes writers just prefer to ignore them in favor of something "more interesting", which I think is 100% fair more often than not.

But knowing that it could be not a case of "Let's just gloss over that contradiction because the story is better doing X instead of Y", but rather "I don't think Y is true, so I'm not considering it while writing and so I do X instead", that is the type of stuff that I dislike. So yes, even though more often than not what is on the Bumblekast is just what Ian thinks, it's clear that what he thinks will somehow shape what he writes even considering the times that SEGA does some supervision to change something for some reason. So knowing what he thinks gives insight into what I can expect about his work, knowing that will of course shape how I think about his work.

Of course, some people will just ignore whatever Ian writes because they think the work of Z or W has more value than his, so they just headcanon it as not mattering, but at that point I think it can hurt the experience with the franchise.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

But knowing that it could be not a case of "Let's just gloss over that contradiction because the story is better doing X instead of Y", but rather "I don't think Y is true, so I'm not considering it while writing and so I do X instead", that is the type of stuff that I dislike. So yes, even though more often than not what is on the Bumblekast is just what Ian thinks, it's clear that what he thinks will somehow shape what he writes even considering the times that SEGA does some supervision to change something for some reason. So knowing what he thinks gives insight into what I can expect about his work, knowing that will of course shape how I think about his work.

Of course, some people will just ignore whatever Ian writes because they think the work of Z or W has more value than his, so they just headcanon it as not mattering, but at that point I think it can hurt the experience with the franchise.

You put it better than I did. Exactly this.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

I'm not at all trying to say that you, nor anyone here is claiming the opposite of this but: Ian Flynn, and every single person who has ever worked on Sonic, will always be a person far, far far far before they are ever "employee of SEGA". For example, I've seen the writer for Mimic's 2024 Annual story, Gigi, retweet some fanart of him. That isn't Gigi making a declaration on Sonic lore that all Sonic fans just must tune into. She is sharing something she enjoys, and cares for. Many working on Sonic have expressed personal care and personal ideas for the franchise, including Ian Flynn. And too, is the Bumblekast personal, far before it is ever an official outlet for Sonic information.

Every single person on this franchise should always be known and treated as a person. And, this should be done eternally before ever trying to treat them as mouthpieces, news outlets, gears in a clock, or names working for a company.

Deliberately ignoring shit=/=being an invidual

Not every employee has the pull or influence Ian has.

 

[MysticMania]

How much influence is that, though? What can he do that someone else working with him can't check on themselves?

 

[Alexander]

Even though it's of course only his opinion, that will, of course, affect the writing, and depending on how things are handled, it's likely SEGA doesn't even know that Ian would be working under that assumption. If Ian thinks X, he will write thinking X, and if the reason behind a decision Y seems to not care much to SEGA, they would likely not say something about it, that is likely more a case of background stuff that rarely even matters in stories. The reason why Shadow could not decide to use Chaos Control could just be that the person writing didn't think about that and thought looking for a spaceship would be cooler, stuff like this happens all the time with broken abilities because sometimes writers just prefer to ignore them in favor of something "more interesting", which I think is 100% fair more often than not.

But knowing that it could be not a case of "Let's just gloss over that contradiction because the story is better doing X instead of Y", but rather "I don't think Y is true, so I'm not considering it while writing and so I do X instead", that is the type of stuff that I dislike. So yes, even though more often than not what is on the Bumblekast is just what Ian thinks, it's clear that what he thinks will somehow shape what he writes even considering the times that SEGA does some supervision to change something for some reason. So knowing what he thinks gives insight into what I can expect about his work, knowing that will of course shape how I think about his work.

Of course, some people will just ignore whatever Ian writes because they think the work of Z or W has more value than his, so they just headcanon it as not mattering, but at that point I think it can hurt the experience with the franchise.

Don't you think there is already to many hurt things?

 

[RedReaper616]

Never considered this.

 

[MysticMania]

I have seen the idea shared around of Shadow running through the mountains of Chaos Island while Super Sonic is fighting Knight.

 

[Executor_N0]

Don't you think there is already to many hurt things?

For me it depends on the situation, I don't engage with Sonic as much as I used to, so since I spend more time doing other stuff, I end up not considering the effect of what Ian or other people do. I'm sure people who care more about certain elements than me will have a much harder opinion of Ian than me, even though I think he has a lot of weight on the series, sometimes more than he thinks of himself considering the overall context.

 

[JJSliderman]

He does since he erased Cyber Space

Again, will be implemented as well

Weren’t souls the one thing that wasn’t erased?
Tails mentions his soul was floating in limbo, meaning it still existed.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

I hope movie 3 makes the warping aspect of Chaos Control as explicit as ever.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Amy vs Rouge Rematch

Last time this matchup happened here was in 2020. A LOT has changed since then. Not to mention some arguments in the original thread were kind of flawed in my opinion. Anyway, standard battle assumptions Modern versions used Battle takes place in Station Square Amy: Rouge: Incon:

vsbattles.com

I never thought I would find myself using the sexuality of Sonic characters as a counter-argument in a VS debate, but here we are

 

[MysticMania]

That does remind me. I don't think I ever will, but I almost want to make a "sonic character age crt". Not that it would matter, but I'm annoyed of SEGA saying that Sonic is 15 and also having the first page of the first issue of their canonical comic start with "Sonic the hedgehog has spent -->years<-- fighting the forces of Dr. Eggman".

this isn't serious because i don't know how to make a CRT nor what CRT stands for