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And that "variation in power"is just you getting a power boost or a super power.
Again, Amy, Knuckles, Tails and Metal sonic got those
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
Again, Amy, Knuckles, Tails and Metal sonic got those
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Super Form are equaly variable as the Emeralds themselves........make a thread to change that if you think otherwise
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Ok, i will do it or not
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Ghengiroo115
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The video wouldn’t load for me before, but looking at it now yeah that should work for keeping 1-C. Was kinda hoping we’d get more 5-D characters for variety
Ghengiroo115
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Yeah I tried that, was written off as outlier.
But that might not be the case forever.
Ghengiroo115
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Oh yeah, definitely an outlier before. Now though it’s kinda just more support for Low 1-C Metal Overlord lol
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yes, that is indeed a variation in power. Like, how do you make an argument against your idea, yet thing it’s on your side?
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but why would the super form be a power boost and not the full power of the emeralds.
the think will be either you get a power boost or you get a super form
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Because of the fact that the Chaos Emeralds, in lore, depend on the user's natural ability to use their power and converting thought and will into power? On top of the IDW run stating that the Emeralds have fluctuating power levels depending on the situation and way they're used in?
We have an entire blog detailing the mechanics of the Chaos Emeralds, my guy. There's a reason why we don't blindly assume that anyone with access to the Chaos Emeralds is using the full power of the Emeralds all the time.
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My problem with this is that we have to assume that the characters using the super form are not fighting with their greatest motivation or wish, but that will me saying that they are middle motivated and wishful, which would be dumb if the truly wanted to defeat their current enemy, they will need to be at their peak of wish and motivation.
Also It is said that Sonic and Shadow can harness the real power of the emeralds and, what do they get?super forms, exactly, if they can use the true power, then why is the "true power"also variable?
Ghengiroo115
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Y’know I was wondering that. Is it gonna be Devil Doom again, just base Black Doom, a whole new form or an entirely separate entity? And will Super Shadow appear or not?
If I’m to ramble for a bit, the narrative-loving side of me would love to see Infinite appear at some point in the game because of how interesting his dynamic with a pre-Forces Shadow would be. However from a powerscaling perspective I would hate that because it massively overcomplicates how we’re suppose to approach Gens bosses in regards to scaling. HOWEVER, what if the final boss was a battle against Infinite where Shadow required his Super form to win? I feel that would be the only way to get the best of both worlds (aside from fighting a pre-Ruby Infinite I guess), however I severely doubt that’s the route they’re actually gonna go since it would be silly to not have Black Doom be the final threat.
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Base Shadow beating Metal Overlord in base only to require his Super form to beat Infinite would sure be something...
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It would be funny if infinite got reduced to atoms again only for black doom to steal the prototype ruby and use it himself. Bonus points if infinite dissolves mid boss fight in the most anti climactic way possible
In all seriousness I think it would be cool if shadow fought infinite and won by removing his inhibitors since we havent seen those in a hot minute. Especially since the inhibitor rings have a huge amp apparently so shadow winning by removing them wouldn't create wierd circular scaling. Although if that does happen I hope shadow shows some signs of fatigue or even passes out after the fight to establish that those rings have a stamina cost and that infinite was formidable.
Ghengiroo115
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It would be a pretty funny image, but I mean if even Forces Sonic can’t beat Infinite alone then a much weaker Shadow wouldn’t stand a chance in his base state.
Bro takes them off so infrequently that him doing so here didn’t even cross my mind. Using the inhibitor rings as the reason for him winning against Infinite would work just as well as him going Super, yeah.
Now that I’ve been reminded of the inhibitor rings’ existence, I really hope we generally see Shadow take them off at some point during both Shadow Gens and Sonic 3. Maybe if they don’t want to give him Super Shadow in Gens because of how it might clash with Sonic’s half of the story, the final boss could be without the inhibitor rings instead. Actually have we even played as Shadow without his inhibitor rings before? Would be a cool opportunity.
BlastX
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It not a hot take, it's an artic cold take actually, practically everyone says this and it's really annoying that it's being brought back because for some reason, despite all the L Sonic handed to Shadow through the series they still think Shadow can defeat Sonic with one hand behind his back.
Hell, it's not the only time this happened, X, Boom, Archie and now this really love going with this idea.
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Obviously I acknowledge the fact that Sonic has consistently beaten Shadow dozens of times throughout the franchise
Again I'm not saying that Shadow can just easily beat Sonic if he wished, only that the potential is there and I wish SEGA showed that more...which they seem to be doing in Sonic 3
BlastX
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Honestly I wished they showed it less, as I said there's way too much of it in other material and people haven't shut up about it ever even when it's not in the games.
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Archie Shadow still gets cooked by Archie Sonic. Both continuities.
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Actually i think they were the cause of the problem in the first place, and let me tell X really did wonders (every part of the franchise really)
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Random thought, should all the super forms have an equivalent to Super Sonic’s power null from Otherworld?
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Yeah, but the craziest part is that it would sort of confirm 1-C base forms, with Infinite's statement of being the strongest opponent Sonic has ever faced and whatnot.
I asked a similar question about the energy constructs Super Sonic uses in Frontiers. Omegabronic's Chaos Energy page is supposed to answer that question apparantly, and I personally have no idea
Ghengiroo115
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Unless I’m missing something I think that would only be the case if Metal Overlord stays 1-C (or if Perfect Chaos get upgraded from the Sonic Channel statement), but yeah Shadow going Super or removing his rings against Infinite would heavily support that statement.
Oh wait, after writing that I realised you might’ve meant “Shadow needing to go Super against Infinite at all would re-contextualise his statements as including Super bosses”, which whether you meant that or not is a really interesting point. Hmmm…
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I don’t know about Power Null, but it should give everyone resistance to Mind Manip, since Sonic going Super directly allowed him to resist the Mind and Memory overwrite.
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yeah they should, it is the same power all of them are using afterall, when the Chaos Energy page is well and done it will all be easier to understand
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Ghengiroo115
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So considering we’ve been talking a lot about the powerscaling implications of Shadow Gens bosses, has anyone got any thoughts about which bosses they’d actually like to see in Shadow Gens? I don’t really have any concrete thoughts of who I’d want to see, however I do have some ideas of who we could see.
Now from my perspective, I think there’s a good chance that they’re gonna have a similar boss structure to the Sonic side (3 rival battles against similar sized characters, 3 boss battles against large end game bosses and one final battle against the main villain). The reason I believe this is partly because both bosses seen so far continue the trend of facing an end game boss established in both versions of Sonic Gens, and partly because it’s been stated that the stories of Sonic and Shadow Gens will cross over at some point (AKA probably a Sonic battle to keep narrative consistency). This would mean we’ve already gotten two big boss slots taken and most likely gotten one rival slot taken. This presumably leaves one big boss, two rivals and then the final battle against Black Doom.
For the big boss it’s interesting, as obviously we’ve potentially gotten characters from Lost World, Forces or Frontiers to consider (meaning Infinite isn’t the only thing that potentially messes up the scaling lol). There’s also the fact that Shadow doesn’t have the Classic/Adventure/Modern formula and both currently revealed bosses are Adventure era (the possible Sonic rival battle and guaranteed Black Doom battle are also both Adventure era), so this begs the question of if we’re just gonna get a bunch of Adventure era bosses or if they’re just hiding the Modern era bosses. Considering the “end game” bosses trend, how they’re very comfortable in throwing in Super form bosses and how they’re seemingly comfortable in adding stuff Shadow wasn’t even there for (although I somewhat doubt they’ll give us a whole boss unrelated to him), this gives us a lot of options for a third big boss. Even if we limit to just vaguely Shadow-related stuff there’s still a lot of options, such as Iblis, Egg Wyvern, Mega Death Egg Robot or Ifrit. King Arthur and Merlina could be on the table too if they count Black Knight as something Shadow-related.
Discussing rival battles is a lot easier since there’s a lot less options and it’s basically guaranteed they’ll have some kind of relationship to Shadow. Tbh I feel the only options outside of Sonic would be Emerl, Mephiles or Infinite.
Now from my perspective, I think there’s a good chance that they’re gonna have a similar boss structure to the Sonic side (3 rival battles against similar sized characters, 3 boss battles against large end game bosses and one final battle against the main villain). The reason I believe this is partly because both bosses seen so far continue the trend of facing an end game boss established in both versions of Sonic Gens, and partly because it’s been stated that the stories of Sonic and Shadow Gens will cross over at some point (AKA probably a Sonic battle to keep narrative consistency). This would mean we’ve already gotten two big boss slots taken and most likely gotten one rival slot taken. This presumably leaves one big boss, two rivals and then the final battle against Black Doom.
For the big boss it’s interesting, as obviously we’ve potentially gotten characters from Lost World, Forces or Frontiers to consider (meaning Infinite isn’t the only thing that potentially messes up the scaling lol). There’s also the fact that Shadow doesn’t have the Classic/Adventure/Modern formula and both currently revealed bosses are Adventure era (the possible Sonic rival battle and guaranteed Black Doom battle are also both Adventure era), so this begs the question of if we’re just gonna get a bunch of Adventure era bosses or if they’re just hiding the Modern era bosses. Considering the “end game” bosses trend, how they’re very comfortable in throwing in Super form bosses and how they’re seemingly comfortable in adding stuff Shadow wasn’t even there for (although I somewhat doubt they’ll give us a whole boss unrelated to him), this gives us a lot of options for a third big boss. Even if we limit to just vaguely Shadow-related stuff there’s still a lot of options, such as Iblis, Egg Wyvern, Mega Death Egg Robot or Ifrit. King Arthur and Merlina could be on the table too if they count Black Knight as something Shadow-related.
Discussing rival battles is a lot easier since there’s a lot less options and it’s basically guaranteed they’ll have some kind of relationship to Shadow. Tbh I feel the only options outside of Sonic would be Emerl, Mephiles or Infinite.
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Merlina would be sick! That's the big boss I want most. Shadow may have never met her, but we know that's not a disqualifier, and they could have some really interesting interactions. I want to see them discuss thier ideologies mid-fight. Mephiles needs to be one of the rivals, the other one could simply be Silver. Simple enough, but effective, as long as you find ways to make the boss fight stand out from Sonic's Silver fight.
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Mephiles boss or bust
Ghengiroo115
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I honestly really don’t want Silver. Not only do I think having two ‘06 rivals is really silly but I also feel that would give us too much overlap with the other Gens. We’ve already got a reimagining of a 3DS boss in the Biolizard, an alternate form of a Sonic rival in Metal Overlord and probably a somewhat altered version of Shadow’s original fight thanks to Sonic. Adding a second Silver boss seems like a bit much especially when Mephiles, Infinite and Emerl are all much better choices.
Personally I’m putting down Emerl, Sonic and Mephiles as my prediction for the three rivals, obviously assuming we actually get three.
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I agree that those are probably the best options. I would pick Infinite instesd of Emerl if not for the fact that it would be wierd that Shadow doesn't seem to remember him in Forces when he fought him in Generations
Ghengiroo115
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Yeah that would be weird for Shadow to not remember him.
Although, imagine we got a pre-Ruby Infinite instead (Is Zero his canon name or is that just a fan thing?), and Shadow ended up forgetting about him because some random jackal wasn’t all that memorable compared to all the other stuff in the game. I think that’d be pretty funny.
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That would make Infinite's gamer rage in Forces more understandable, but pre-Ruby Infinite has nothing to bring to the table in Generations
Ghengiroo115
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Idk I’ll throw in some random ones
Master Core: ABIS (Black hole…black arms…idk)
Ifrit (would be thematic having a metal sonic fight and an Ifrit fight considering Rivals 2’s plot)
The obvious Infinite and Mephiles
Knight (because it’s on Chaos Island)
Eclipse the Darkling-
Master Core: ABIS (Black hole…black arms…idk)
Ifrit (would be thematic having a metal sonic fight and an Ifrit fight considering Rivals 2’s plot)
The obvious Infinite and Mephiles
Knight (because it’s on Chaos Island)
Eclipse the Darkling-
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Personally I want Mephiles, Shadow Android and Infinite as the rival battles with Emerl and Sonic as the "cross character" battles (assuming Emerl is the 4th playable character).
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There's gonna be a 4th playable character?
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Theory seeing the empty "coming" soon box that is alongside Shadow's description in the japanese site, which is a similar layout to Sonic's side, which has both boxes with Classic and Modern Sonic respectively
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No. Or at least very likely not.
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