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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

omegabronic said:
That will take a while, i recomend waiting for the tier 2 base sonic revision to come before making your thread
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Should I assist with that? link the thread I think I have a way to argue Infinite is 2-C without derailing the thread.

Basically you know how the classic dimension is the past right? It was confirmed to be Modern Sonic's past by Ian Flynn and TailsTube so I would argue that Infinite's strength included that of the Phantom King into his progression with the Ruby and that since the Phantom King could handle the phantom ruby (which could create an entire dimension of its own) and harm Classic Super Sonic that Infinite should be at least relative to Classic Super Sonic (pre Forces)
 
ThatBusyDude said:
I'm worrying about 2-C to 2-B right now.
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I mean isn't 2-B just a multiverse timelines in a sense? if you can prove that the ariban knights have universes that are infinite than those are just beyond a simple multiverse which means its 2-A count me in an agreement but due to vsbw they will prob shit on that Also 2-A>>>>>2-B
 
Decided to boot up Unleashed and yeah, turns out you really can’t see any floating islands.

That said, I’m wondering if it’s okay to use the S3K Earth for measurements when we don’t see the entirety of it, it’s fully possible that Angel Island is visible from space with that interpretation but the view is offscreen.
 
JJSliderman said:
That said, I’m wondering if it’s okay to use the S3K Earth for measurements when we don’t see the entirety of it, it’s fully possible that Angel Island is visible from space with that interpretation but the view is offscreen.
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The reasoning provided in the upgrade thread and two calc members agreeing with that reasoning is enough. I'm not saying to never question what's used, I think it's good not everybody flocks to the same conclusion; but why is your timing always AFTER the thread is nearing completion, and 9/10 trying to overwrite previous staff agreement?

Sometimes I question whether it's deliberate.
 
ShakeResounding said:
The reasoning provided in the upgrade thread and two calc members agreeing with that reasoning is enough. I'm not saying to never question what's used, I think it's good not everybody flocks to the same conclusion; but why is your timing always AFTER the thread is nearing completion, and 9/10 trying to overwrite staff approval?

Sometimes I question whether it's deliberate.
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I don't think it's like that Shake. Let the man cook what he wants.
 
ShakeResounding said:
The reasoning provided in the upgrade thread and two calc members agreeing with that reasoning is enough. I'm not saying to never question what's used, I think it's good not everybody flocks to the same conclusion; but why is your timing always AFTER the thread is nearing completion, and 9/10 trying to overwrite previous staff agreement?

Sometimes I question whether it's deliberate.
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I guess cuz I was lazy and only now decided to check the Unleashed Earth on my own game copy, and because I was fully onboard with the idea that if it was invisible in one Earth interpretation, it would be the same for all of them. But now I think that might be overextending a little, so I wanted to bring it up.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
I don't think it's like that Shake. Let the man cook what he wants.
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And I get that, I try to let JJ cook sometimes and appreciate his participation in the verse despite me often coming off as curt.
JJSliderman said:
I guess cuz I was lazy and only now decided to check the Unleashed Earth on my own game copy, and because I was fully onboard with the idea that if it was invisible in one Earth interpretation, it would be the same for all of them. But now I think that might be overextending a little, so I wanted to bring it up.
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Welp, can't blame you for the laziness but lol. As I mentioned in the thread itself tho, using 3&K's end is just overall more consistency than using Earth from other titles (even tho High 5-A admittedly would be cooler imo) since its not relying on artistic expression for two locations that's years apart.
 
I mostly am just on the fence about saying AI would be invisible on every interpretation of the Earth, when Unleashed is the only time we see a full view of the planet. I get the consistency angle, but I also think it could be inconsistent to use the interpretation gotten from one version of the planet and apply it to all the others.
 
The calc is fine, it’s moreso just applying the ratio of AI size to the planet gotten from Unleashed’s Earth I’m not sure translates properly to any other Earth model, since Unleashed is the only one we see the whole scope of.
 
JJSliderman said:
Decided to boot up Unleashed and yeah, turns out you really can’t see any floating islands.

That said, I’m wondering if it’s okay to use the S3K Earth for measurements when we don’t see the entirety of it, it’s fully possible that Angel Island is visible from space with that interpretation but the view is offscreen.
Click to expand...
It is said to not be visible, there is no proof that it is in the S3K, why assume that it is there?
 
JJSliderman said:
I mostly am just on the fence about saying AI would be invisible on every interpretation of the Earth, when Unleashed is the only time we see a full view of the planet. I get the consistency angle, but I also think it could be inconsistent to use the interpretation gotten from one version of the planet and apply it to all the others.
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There is a direct statement by tails tho
 
The statement just says that humans live in the bigger countries, it doesn’t directly say Angel Island is invisible from space to human perception.
 
“What you can’t see from orbit are the islands dotting the ocean”.

Angel Island is not dotting the ocean, it’s flying above it.

Notice how they didn’t show any pictures of flying islands in that quote.
 
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Eseseso said:
I was just thinking, since Archie Shadow removing the Inhibitor Rings was capable of fighting Enerjak, who is Super Shadow level, and we use the games for some Archie stuff such as Solaris's abilities, why not do a vice versa scaling and say that the Inhibitor Rings in the games are a Super level boost for Shadow?
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Idk man, Base Sonic made Enerjak flinch and took off his helmet. While Shadow didn't do much without his inhibitors, only moved him away.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
Well I want it higher into 2-C.

Basically my argument was going to be that

1. The Arabian nights is infinite in size since it encompasses infinite realms like the night palace and astral plane.

2. The Arabian nights are called worlds of adventures by Sonic.

3. People who've worked on the game and Sonic worldview supervisors like Eitaro Toyoda agree that the stories are each their own world (universe)

(I was going to explain the reason why the stories were connected in Secret Rings was because the World Rings bound them together throughout the story)

4. According to some official material the Arabian nights are filled with dreams, magic and adventures (and dreams are worlds (universes) in Sonic)

Therefore the Arabian nights should be 2-C to possibly 2-B. It's not full proof but I think it's worth a try.

I was gonna check with everyone and review the arguments before I tried it.
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You can argue possibly 2-A since it was said that Sonic's World has a similar/same potential to the Arabian Nights, stated by the World Manager and Overseer of Sonic.
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
You can argue possibly 2-A since it was said that Sonic's World has a similar/same potential to the Arabian Nights, stated by the World Manager and Overseer of Sonic.
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That was my plan but I was sort of downplaying it so it would be accepted and then bring up that point later in another potential revision.

You and @LaserPrecision can help me with Tier 2 Arabian nights when the time comes but don't push for 2-A we'll get that down later since 2-C to 2-B is already a huge pill for this wiki as it is.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
That was my plan but I was sort of downplaying it so it would be accepted and then bring up that point later in another potential revision.

You and @LaserPrecision can help me with Tier 2 Arabian nights when the time comes but don't push for 2-A we'll get that down later since 2-C to 2-B is already a huge pill for this wiki as it is.
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That's alright, I believe 2-C to 2-B Arabian Nights is good

Speaking of which
Why isn't Erazor's eldritch form on the same level as Time Eater and Solaris? It's stated that he'll do the same thing to Sonic's World after destroying the Arabian Nights, shouldn't he scale to whatever Solaris, Egg Wizard and the like scale to?
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
Idk man, Base Sonic made Enerjak flinch and took off his helmet. While Shadow didn't do much without his inhibitors, only moved him away.
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I mean, Base Archie Shadow's profile has his no-inhibitor form at Low 1-C for fighting Enerjak, he just ran out of steam.

A weakness he didn't have in Sonic 2006, as after wiping out the army of Mephiles Clones he was fine.
 
Eseseso said:
I mean, Base Archie Shadow's profile has his no-inhibitor form at Low 1-C for fighting Enerjak, he just ran out of steam.

A weakness he didn't have in Sonic 2006, as after wiping out the army of Mephiles Clones he was fine.
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Well that's bull because Archie Shadow did LESS damage/stagger to Enerjak than Base Sonic
 
JJSliderman said:
“What you can’t see from orbit are the islands dotting the ocean”.

Angel Island is not dotting the ocean, it’s flying above it.

Notice how they didn’t show any pictures of flying islands in that quote.
Click to expand...
Yeah but as an example of these islands and peole who live in them they also showed knuckles, who lives on AI, plus an floating island is also "dotting the ocean" as it would still apear as a dot in it
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
HOLY crap what are yall cooking
Click to expand...
Something for sure
The_Fastest_Savior said:
Well that's bull because Archie Shadow did LESS damage/stagger to Enerjak than Base Sonic
Click to expand...
Wasn't Archie Base Sonic about to singlehandedly beat A.D.A.M. who was implied to have no diffed Archie Base Shadow and Archie Base Tails?

In my opinion Archie Sonic should be way above Archie Shadow, he seems to have more scaling and feats.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
Something for sure

Wasn't Archie Base Sonic about to singlehandedly beat A.D.A.M. who was implied to have no diffed Archie Base Shadow and Archie Base Tails?

In my opinion Archie Sonic should be way above Archie Shadow, he seems to have more scaling and feats.
Click to expand...
Idk how Shadow got low 1-C tiering via inhibitors because I swear Enerjak was less effective by the Inhibitor less Chaos Blast than Sonic physically knocking his head.
 
​
Shadow's inhibitor amp is never specified how much it amps him, using a vague panel where Enerjak is not even hurt in the slightest by Shadow, but ignoring Sonic knocking his helmet off is WEIRD.
 
I found scans to prove my point, let's see what happened.

Enerjak got bored of Sonic insulting him, and throws his ass away as Shadow gets prepared to take off his inhibitors
^Prior to this it seems like Sonic got thrown by Enerjak already as seen in the first panel.

Shadow releases the Chaos Blast, but Enerjak is practically unbothered as he raises his arms to block the blast.
^Note that Enerjak shows no signs of being hurt, maybe a little fazed.

Note sure if this is the exact next page, but Shadow rushes in for a punch but Enerjak dodges easily and prepares a punch

Enerjak one shots Uninhibited Shadow, Shadow in desperation throws a Chaos Spear. Enerjak is completely unaffected by it and throws a thunder arrow and almost kills Shadow until Sonic sweeps in. Note that Sonic quips before Enerjak tries to finish off Shadow, meaning Enerjak should know that Sonic is still around.
^Sonic's ONE spin attack knocks Enerjak's helmet off and staggers/hurts him.

Conclusion:
Inhibitors off Shadow did less damage to Enerjak and got one shoted before he did anything meaningful.
Sonic's physical attack did much more damage to Enerjak and technically tanked more harm from Enerjak then Shadow ever did.

You can always use the "Off Guard" argument to not scale either to Enerjak's level, however the point is that Inhibitors off Shadow has not shown to be quantitatively superior to Base in the instance used to get him to Low 1-C.

Inhibitors are a NFL since we do not know how much powerful Shadow gets.


This got too Revision friendly, just please remove that key. It makes no sense.
 
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