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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

JJSliderman said:
Actually, what about the Japanese dialogue hints at a conceptual nature.
Click to expand...

"I am the orchestrator and arbiter of order in the universe"

"There is no such thing as an absolute constant in the universe"

"My attunement is the ruling of fate on everything that exists in this universe"

"Since time immemorial, it has been ordained that aspiring life forms will come to this end, and that there is no way to challenge thine foolishness"

"Indeed. This was decided from the ordination"

"I see. Is the meaning of thy existence in this universe?"

"Canst thou devote thy being to that aspiration which guides life?"

"Something is about to happen. Something that transcends law and time. is this the beginning of evolution?"

"I see. So that is what the universe is, what life is."

I checked the script as written here, and it's basically all that is there.

The Japanese version of Sonic Forces has a relatively big amount of mentions of universal laws and causality, the very first scene of the game when Tails is approaching Starfall Island is

うぁ! 法則を無視したカ場で操縦の結果が変化してる? ロジックの差異が顕在化して因果の底に落ちて行っている!
Whoa! The flying direction is changing because of a law-ignoring force field? Logical disparities are manifesting and going down to the bottom of causality!

A big focus in the Japanese script is the idea of actual destiny imposed by the universe (With The End being the arbiter), defying the End is literally going against the laws of the universe (The reason why Starfall Island is literally covered in a force field that ignores laws down to causality). So a lot about the game is Sage finding out that Sonic is a being that can actually go against fate/causality itself, which his words before going to fight the end being "I'll break the causality of destiny" (オレが運命の因果を断ち切ってみせる！), which The End calls "something that transcends law and time".

Of course, it could very well still be a metaphor... except when you take notice that the first time it was mentioned was actually Tails after he read the information before falling into the island, and also by Sage who really wouldn't talk with metaphor.
 
the codex wiki, somehow they manage to downplay sonic at planet level, in his super form, and they do it horrible.
i mean,i don't know you can even make it,but what can i expect from a wiki who puts mario in 2-A(and aparently paper mario is the same mario,great)
not to mention the many other issues, like taking away sonic's immeasurable speed (or extra-temporal) which apparently solaris doesn't have temporal omnipresence,time eater ''destroying space-time''din't affect the present(proof,taking out of context the end of the game,where it never says the present was not affected,dammit it never even says that it was not affected even,all space-time was affected)
the end is only planetary (apparently there is no upscaling here for anycharacter)super sonic is FTL at best,and a long etc.
seriosly,how the manage to make it?
 
Last edited:
Alexander said:
the codex wiki, somehow they manage to downplay sonic at planet level, in his super form, and they do it horrible.
i mean,i don't know you can even make it,but what can i expect from a wiki who puts mario in 2-A(and aparently paper mario is the same mario,great)
not to mention the many other issues, like taking away sonic's immeasurable speed (or extra-temporal) which apparently solaris doesn't have temporal omnipresence,time eater ''destroying space-time''din't affect the present(proof,taking out of context the end of the game,where it never says the present was not affected,dammit it never even says that it was not affected even,all space-time was affected)
the end is only planetary (apparently there is no upscaling here for anycharacter)super sonic is FTL at best,and a long etc.
seriosly,how the manage to make it?
Click to expand...
Tbf VSB did that same thing to at one point treating Paper Mario as the same Mario. In fact they used to say literally every Mario game is canon lol
 
Alexander said:
where does it its stated that?also where does the ''super substance''comes from.
Click to expand...
Super Substance comes from various Classic Sonic Jp manuals that can be found translated by Windii, there's also other stuff with that but yeah.
Super Substances are very broken but that's a topic for another time.
 
Alexander said:
the codex wiki, somehow they manage to downplay sonic at planet level, in his super form, and they do it horrible.
i mean,i don't know you can even make it,but what can i expect from a wiki who puts mario in 2-A(and aparently paper mario is the same mario,great)
not to mention the many other issues, like taking away sonic's immeasurable speed (or extra-temporal) which apparently solaris doesn't have temporal omnipresence,time eater ''destroying space-time''din't affect the present(proof,taking out of context the end of the game,where it never says the present was not affected,dammit it never even says that it was not affected even,all space-time was affected)
the end is only planetary (apparently there is no upscaling here for anycharacter)super sonic is FTL at best,and a long etc.
seriosly,how the manage to make it?
Click to expand...
I saw, they legitimately have Storybook Sonic at 11A or High Infraversal level, which is below most of the tiering system
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
I saw, they legitimately have Storybook Sonic at 11A or High Infraversal level, which is below most of the tiering system
Click to expand...
and the arguments for that were, well, they didn't even prove it because it's a 2-D world, it was never said in the game that it was 2-D, in fact something that already kills everything is the fact that shayra was able to go to that world, not to mention the fact that she literally says that the power of the world rings connects the worlds.
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
Super Substance comes from various Classic Sonic Jp manuals that can be found translated by Windii, there's also other stuff with that but yeah.
Super Substances are very broken but that's a topic for another time.
Click to expand...
do you mean this?
page8-137px-Sonic1_MD_JP_manual.pdf.jpg
page9-344px-Sonic1_MD_JP_manual.pdf.jpg
 
メカソニックの攻撃は最初は本編と同じだが、倒さ れるとスーパーエメラルドの力を取り込み、金色に 光り無敵となる。 エネルギー弾を撃ったあとが唯一 のスキだ。 何回か攻撃すると弾を8方向にとばすよ うになる。 一瞬元の姿に戻ったところを狙おう。

"At first, Mecha-Sonic's attacks are the same as in the main series, but when he is defeated, he takes in the power of the Super Emerald, glows gold, and becomes invincible. The only gap is after firing the energy rounds. After a few attacks, bullets will fly in eight directions. Aim for the moment when they return to their original form. -Source Sonic Jam Guide"

These are the links for reference

Since the master emerald has special properties, this should be a type of super emerald
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
メカソニックの攻撃は最初は本編と同じだが、倒さ れるとスーパーエメラルドの力を取り込み、金色に 光り無敵となる。 エネルギー弾を撃ったあとが唯一 のスキだ。 何回か攻撃すると弾を8方向にとばすよ うになる。 一瞬元の姿に戻ったところを狙おう。

"At first, Mecha-Sonic's attacks are the same as in the main series, but when he is defeated, he takes in the power of the Super Emerald, glows gold, and becomes invincible. The only gap is after firing the energy rounds. After a few attacks, bullets will fly in eight directions. Aim for the moment when they return to their original form. -Source Sonic Jam Guide"

These are the links for reference

Since the master emerald has special properties, this should be a type of super emerald
Click to expand...
ok
 
Remus1998 said:
I saw those pages, and trust me when I say that I have never laughed so hard in my life.

But these are the same people who genuinely believe in UNIVERSAL AT BEST Dragon Ball Heroes
Click to expand...
Bruh when I saw their arguments for Solaris I realized it was the same bullshit "he only did with via space time intersections" garbage downplayers make up.

And the Storybook profile legit had me flabbergasted
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
Bruh when I saw their arguments for Solaris I realized it was the same bullshit "he only did with via space time intersections" garbage downplayers make up.

And the Storybook profile legit had me flabbergasted
Click to expand...
oh wait, how about the old and repeated argument that "egg wizard is only planetary"
They show the scans, and at no time do they say that it is the maximum power, I knew it.
 
Remus1998 said:
The End literally stated that has consumed countless stars but whatever
Click to expand...
i mean they also believe that the JP>EN,but the reasons are...they don't exist?
also,look this:
''Now, to address the potential arguments for star level based on the End's statement to destroy stars, we have no reason to assume that its weakened state scales to this potential power, and that's assuming this hype statement is to be taken seriously to begin with. Another issue that falls under this statement can be taken also as a life wiping statement, especially since The End itself is a roaming planetoid''
my god i want to die,and for worse,they somehow take into account the ''IDW is canon now''but aparently they forgot that IDW will be rewriten because of it,and now they are starting to think that sonic is not even FTL.
but they are forgeting that in IDW characters can dodge lasers and those are light speed and never proven the opposite,like,like,it can't even be worst.
 
Alexander said:
oh wait, how about the old and repeated argument that "egg wizard is only planetary"
They show the scans, and at no time do they say that it is the maximum power, I knew it.
Click to expand...
Whatever feats the Wizard shows, we know it's at least around Salamander and Solaris level, if not higher, since its energy outputs were so great Eggman praised it to no end. Even Sonic admitted that it was extraordinary and too dangerous.

I have a lot of scans for this
 
Alexander said:
i mean they also believe that the JP>EN,but the reasons are...they don't exist?
also,look this:
''Now, to address the potential arguments for star level based on the End's statement to destroy stars, we have no reason to assume that its weakened state scales to this potential power, and that's assuming this hype statement is to be taken seriously to begin with. Another issue that falls under this statement can be taken also as a life wiping statement, especially since The End itself is a roaming planetoid''
my god i want to die,and for worse,they somehow take into account the ''IDW is canon now''but aparently they forgot that IDW will be rewriten because of it,and now they are starting to think that sonic is not even FTL.
but they are forgeting that in IDW characters can dodge lasers and those are light speed and never proven the opposite,like,like,it can't even be worst.
Click to expand...
For Frontiers Eng and Jp are equal but whatever
 
The_Fastest_Savior said:
Whatever feats the Wizard shows, we know it's at least around Salamander and Solaris level, if not higher, since its energy outputs were so great Eggman praised it to no end. Even Sonic admitted that it was extraordinary and too dangerous.
Click to expand...
them:downplay.
me:they don't even know the word upscaling?o wait,yeah they don't aparently
 
Alexander said:
yeah they also use that,how worst it can be?not even palomera from csap downplayed sonic that bad
Click to expand...
Of course they used that

I also remember this Debates Jungle thread that basically "debunked" multiversal or universal Sonic, somebody unironically sent that garbage to me on Twitter during an argument.
 
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