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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

omegabronic said:
He is the protagonist, he is above any life form :devilish: :devilish:
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You're spitting brother. Shadow is the coolest tho.
z9n8a8ln1ht41.png
 
Been a minute since I've asked one, but question; If you had to isekai somebody from another verse into Sonic's, who would you like to see?

(For those who don't know, isekai is when a character gets transported to an unfamiliar world from their own. Think the Storybook games, where Sonic is summoned to the world of Camelot in Black Knight)
 
ShakeResounding said:
Been a minute since I've asked one, but question; If you had to isekai somebody from another verse into Sonic's, who would you like to see?

(For those who don't know, isekai is when a character gets transported to an unfamiliar world from their own. Think the Storybook games, where Sonic is summoned to the world of Camelot in Black Knight)
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Honestly? Appocallymon from digimon, just because(powerscaling aside) it would be cool to see super sonic vs that abomination, also him slowy corrupting the world with darkness and anti evolution would make really cool stages and maps, with the sky always black and the world slowly becoming a spiral
 
omegabronic said:
Honestly? Appocallymon from digimon, just because(powerscaling aside) it would be cool to see super sonic vs that abomination, also him slowy corrupting the world with darkness and anti evolution would make really cool stages and maps, with the sky always black and the world slowly becoming a spiral
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This. I think pretty much any of the final enemy Digimon from each series would make for some insane Super Sonic battles. BelialVamdemon,Abbadomon, Mother D-Reaper,Lucemon Satan Mode,etc. Sure they would wreck even a composite sonic in actual stats/hax,but in a narrative battle it would be an incredible spectacle.
 
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I hope everyone's doing well.

I've been wanting to ask, but what all sources state that Super is invulnerable/invincible, for mainline canon?
 
Comes from a livestream where Kishimoto or someone else said that the End’s appearance changes based on what the viewer sees when they think of death.

There’s a little bit of a gap between that and the end being the actual literal embodiment of death, but oh well.
 
JJSliderman said:
There’s a little bit of a gap between that and the end being the actual literal embodiment of death, but oh well.
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Considering the Moon is used as the representation of birth/death/reincarnation (which Kishimoto specifically says is what WE see, not the characters), coupled with The End's statements which support Kishimoto's narrative and imply The End exists/will continue to exist in some capacity, I feel this skepticism is redundant by now. Do people need to be spoonfed narrative themes?
 
ShakeResounding said:
Considering the Moon is used as the representation of birth/death/reincarnation (which Kishimoto specifically says is what WE see, not the characters), coupled with The End's statements which support Kishimoto's narrative and imply The End exists/will continue to exist in some capacity, I feel this skepticism is redundant by now. Do people need to be spoonfed narrative themes?
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well, people have brought arguments that we do see what sonic saw, but i dunno
 
ShakeResounding said:
Considering the Moon is used as the representation of birth/death/reincarnation (which Kishimoto specifically says is what WE see, not the characters), coupled with The End's statements which support Kishimoto's narrative and imply The End exists/will continue to exist in some capacity, I feel this skepticism is redundant by now. Do people need to be spoonfed narrative themes?
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I think it would help if it was directly said, yeah.
 
JJSliderman said:
I think it would help if it was directly said, yeah.
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I speak as a Writing Major of 4 years; part of the fun in writing a story is allowing some open-endedness in interpretation within the work itself, as it's largely done to attract a wide variety of people with differing thoughts and not a like-minded hive. If Sage or Eggman had said "The End is the embodiment of death", I would've rolled my eyes because that's not fun. It's not interesting. You get exposition crammed down your throat instead of the joy of drawing your own conclusions. That's what makes much of fiction entertaining.

Notice how Kishimoto didn't detract from Frontiers by including anything overt regarding its connection to death in the game itself, he said it outside of the material because it falls under author's intent but simultaneously aligns with tidbits we get.

Now I'm not using this as a defense for The End being labelled as death, but the idea that everything HAS to be SPELLED OUT is just... Unfun. We have author intent supported by both subtle imagery (use of the Moon) and dialogue from the character itself, and that's more than enough.
 
The character’s dialogue is just statements about how it will destroy everything, a feat shared by two other non-conceptual entities in the same franchise, and how it is both “infinite and nothing”, and has avatars, and has perception manipulation with the theme of death. None of that is directly saying that The End itself is directly responsible for or a representation of death in the series in general. If Sonic beat it, I doubt that death would cease to exist as a concept in the series.
 
JJSliderman said:
The character’s dialogue is just statements about how it will destroy everything, a feat shared by two other non-conceptual entities in the same franchise, and how it is both “infinite and nothing”, and has avatars, and has perception manipulation with the theme of death.
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Wow, gee, I wonder what this is trying to convey.
None of that is directly saying that The End itself is directly responsible for or a representation of death in the series in general.
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No shit, did you not just read what I said?
If Sonic beat it, I doubt that death would cease to exist as a concept in the series.
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Are you blatantly trying to cherrypick what it said when it benefits you? It literally said killing it would do nothing because the form Sonic fought was but one of an unknown number.
 
So like, if the End had all the rest of its kit remain the same, but it’s perception manip was tied to the appearance of fish tacos, does that mean the End is automatically the concept of fish tacos? That sounds wack, The End via statements is just a cosmology wiper with perception manip and multiple avatars.

What I meant was if Sonic beat the “true” End, would the concept of death magically disappear? Probably not.
 
JJSliderman said:
So like, if the End had all the rest of its kit remain the same, but it’s perception manip was tied to the appearance of fish tacos, does that mean the End is automatically the concept of fish tacos? That sounds wack, The End via statements is just a cosmology wiper with perception manip and multiple avatars.

What I meant was if Sonic beat the “true” End, would the concept of death magically disappear? Probably not.
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Maybe
Sonic's actions are described by both Sage and The End as an action against causality and the universe's order (Tails also implying that something related to the very order of the universe being distorted in the opening scene)

It might not be 100% an abstraction itself, but that the very fabric of the universe is related to all of this is basically confirmed
 
I suppose the defiance of the universe’s order and causality is notable, but it could also have just been a generic speech due to how powerful the villain is and “this can’t be happening!”, etc.
 
Executor_N0 said:
Seems like they are nerfing teleportation and time travel in the last IDW issue. Silver for some reason now can't time travel at will (Even with material like Sonic Colors DS and Sonic Pict having Silver time traveling just because he wants to see something) and Blaze now can just travel between her and Sonic's world, so their dimensional travel seems to know to be limited to just these two worlds.
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i don't know about this,but did you know that if IDW contradicts the games,then the games take priority?so this will just get killed i guess
 
JJSliderman said:
So like, if the End had all the rest of its kit remain the same, but it’s perception manip was tied to the appearance of fish tacos, does that mean the End is automatically the concept of fish tacos?
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That is a stupid ******* comparison and question, which deserves a stupid ******* answer. Yes, and it would probably taste delicious.
That sounds wack
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My brother in Christ, YOU made the comparison. Why do you think? 😂
 
I made it to show that just because the perception manipulation is based on a certain concept, doesn’t mean that the creature with that ability is literally that concept manifested.
 
JJSliderman said:
I made it to show that just because the perception manipulation is based on a certain concept, doesn’t mean that the creature with that ability is literally that concept manifested.
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No, you made a frankly ridiculous comparison just to try and make my point sound stupid.

The End's nature implies it, Kishimoto implies it, its statements in the JP version implies it (which is equal precedence to the American version on this site, so don't start). If you don't want to see it then fine, but stop acting as if any interpretation but yours is entirely unfeasible.
 
ShakeResounding said:
No, you made a frankly ridiculous comparison just to try and make my point sound stupid.

The End's nature implies it, Kishimoto implies it, its statements in the JP version implies it (which is equal precedence to the American version on this site, so don't start). If you don't want to see it then fine, but stop acting as if any interpretation but yours is entirely unfeasible.
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now the question is...are this false or true?
 
ShakeResounding said:
No, you made a frankly ridiculous comparison just to try and make my point sound stupid.

The End's nature implies it, Kishimoto implies it, its statements in the JP version implies it (which is equal precedence to the American version on this site, so don't start). If you don't want to see it then fine, but stop acting as if any interpretation but yours is entirely unfeasible.
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People really latched on to that neutrality line as a way to say the End represented the concept of entropy, kind of jumping the gun if you ask me.

Kishimoto didn’t imply it was conceptual, just that it’s appearance was amorphous and always changing.

Japanese version is maybe, End could have just been boasting, but I’ll admit it’s the best argument for it being a universal constant/conceptual entity
 
JJSliderman said:
People really latched on to that neutrality line as a way to say the End represented the concept of entropy, kind of jumping the gun if you ask me.
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It's accepted and that's not all there is to substantiate it, either acknowledge and deal with it or don't but stop cherrypicking things and purposefully attacking individual parts of the argument to make the points look weak. You're just going in circles now.
Japanese version is maybe, End could have just been boasting, but I’ll admit it’s the best argument for it being a universal constant/conceptual entity
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"End could have just been boasting" I am very tired of hearing this non-supported conjecture, this is even more of an assumption than what you're accusing people of assuming. The End has no reason to lie and is even less arrogant in the JP version compared to the English version. Your claims that The End is boasting when it tells Sonic its death is something that will transcend law and time make no sense. It even questions right after, in reference to life forms, "Is this the beginning of evolution?" Doesn't sound like a boast to me.
 
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