Son Goku VS Vegeta

[Noahkaismith]

I say Vegeta because honestly throughout super it has been sated repeatedly that Vegeta is Goku's superior. In fact if you think back through the arcs the only reason Goku got stronger than Vegeta was the KK amp
Vegeta's BSSB is >= Goku's SSBKK because like i said before at the start through the end of the ToP Vegeta was stronger untill Goku of course used KK to close gaps and what not

Also you guys dont want to hear it but KK does strain his body and drains Ki faster, just because you don't say it doesnt mean its not true or valid anymore.

Just because goku's was fighting Jiren alone while Vegeta fought Toppo doesnt mean a thing. Clearly Jiren doesnt have infinte Ki, so when Vegeta left to fight Toppo he supressed himself because he no longer needed the amount of energy he was using to fight Goku alone

This is clear Goku wank...

I don't think it's ever been stated that Vegeta < Goku.

That's not a very good reason.

I acknowledge that Kaioken does indeed still drain his body.

No, Goku just struggled much more.

I think we have a rule against saying that people are wanking. Please don't do that.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

I say Vegeta because honestly throughout super it has been sated repeatedly that Vegeta is Goku's superior. In fact if you think back through the arcs the only reason Goku got stronger than Vegeta was the KK amp
Vegeta's BSSB is >= Goku's SSBKK because like i said before at the start through the end of the ToP Vegeta was stronger untill Goku of course used KK to close gaps and what not

Also you guys dont want to hear it but KK does strain his body and drains Ki faster, just because you don't say it doesnt mean its not true or valid anymore.

Just because goku's was fighting Jiren alone while Vegeta fought Toppo doesnt mean a thing. Clearly Jiren doesnt have infinte Ki, so when Vegeta left to fight Toppo he supressed himself because he no longer needed the amount of energy he was using to fight Goku alone

This is clear Goku wank...

THIS HAS NEVER BEENSTATED XD

My reason was short but just reason goku looses is because BssBe vegetahad more reserves in his blue form durability, versitality, speed all of it he had a little more than goku sorry...

 

[Dzhindzholia]

This thread is a mess,really.Someone votes for Goku because of better skills and techniques.Vegeta may be more skilled than Goku,he was fighting Saibamen and other enemies when Goku was like 0 years.They have the same techniques.People just like him more sadly.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

I don't think it's ever been stated that Vegeta < Goku.

That's not a very good reason.

I acknowledge that Kaioken does indeed still drain his body.

No, Goku just struggled much more.

I think we have a rule against saying that people are wanking. Please don't do that.

Ikr ^ but idk about wanking rule I wouldnt count this vote or anyone with this reasoning

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sheesh, this thread's gotten hectic.

My vote's for Vegeta on this. While current Goku using KKx20 might not drain as much stamina, fact of the matter is that it does do it. However slowly, his stamina is gradually decreasing and Vegeta will slowly gain the upper hand.

While Goku does have the arguable better techniques, Vegeta has the experience over him. Period. Fighting saibamen while Goku was crapping daipers does give him quite the advantage in that department as well.

And while Goku does have IT and Solar Flare, Vegeta has been alongside others while they've done it. Would surprising him with that work? Certainly. But eventually, Vegeta will adjust and predict if Goku begins to spam it. Even if Goku does happen to get the better of Vegeta, his Not-So-Final Explosion could potentially seal the deal, like it did with GoD Toppo.

Goku's nothing short of a tactical genius and a mastermind on the battlefield, and it comes down to things stated in this thread multiple times. The drain of the Kaioken, along with Vegeta's advantage in experience by several years, gives him the win here.

Second fiddle? Not this time.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

Without U.I? Well, i'd still say Vegeta. His SSB Evolution is similar towards the SSJ2 Transformation, right? So, if that's the case, then....

I'd say Vegeta. Sure, Goku's smarter, but he also isn't as hard hitting. And his KK Boost doesn't apply THAT much of a boost, despite it being a granduer Power Up.

Vegeta's basically just Force and shit while fighting. He also goes all out, unlike Goku's...well..."spirit" in fighting.

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Don't get how Vegeta is leading Kakarot, Kakarot should be leading.

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

BTW Vegeta himself told Goku in the Goku Black arc he is his superior and i don't think Goku would take that comment unless A.) It's true OR B.) He simply thought Vegeta was talking out of his ass (and goku still would've corrected him)

So you guys honestly think goku can really fight as good as him and Vegeta comibined..... let me rephrase this... you guys really think he put in the same exact effort HIM AND VEGETA used while fighting Jiren with no clarification of a power boost...... Jiren clearly supressed himself because why would he need the same amount of energy he was using against two because if he did Goku wouldve been in the dirt quite fast

 

[Sceptilespy]

Don't get how Vegeta is leading Kakarot, Kakarot should be leading.

You could try reading the reasons.

 

[HST_Master]

While Goku does have the arguable better techniques, Vegeta has the experience over him. Period. Fighting saibamen while Goku was crapping daipers does give him quite the advantage in that department as well.

How would this be a variable factor when it wasn't the last two times they fought? Especially when they were dead even in the Buu saga. And also Vegeta was soloing Saibamen and rarely came across someone stronger than him it doesn't really amount to experience when it's simply stomping while, Goku was continually fighting people above him including Vegeta.

 

[HST_Master]

BTW Vegeta himself told Goku in the Goku Black arc he is his superior and i don't think Goku would take that comment unless A.) It's true OR B.) He simply thought Vegeta was talking out of his ass (and goku still would've corrected him)

So you guys honestly think goku can really fight as good as him and Vegeta comibined..... let me rephrase this... you guys really think he put in the same exact effort HIM AND VEGETA used while fighting Jiren with no clarification of a power boost...... Jiren clearly supressed himself because why would he need the same amount of energy he was using against two because if he did Goku wouldve been in the dirt quite fast

Vegeta literally ALWAYS talks like that so why would that moment in particular be any different? And to boot it's even shown that the two of them together were fighting equally against Jiren, Vegeta had no lead in it

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Hat I was never saying it was, only that people earlier in the thread saying it would give Goku the win. It wouldn't, and that's what I was arguing for there.

Having more experience fighting a stronger opponent doesn't mean anything. It's like what you said, them being dead-even aside from the SSJ3 Goku had in his pocket. If it was really a factor, Goku would've been able to handily defeat him. In the end, Vegeta has simply had more experience fighting in total. That isn't even the leading factor in my argument anyhow.

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

Vegeta literally ALWAYS talks like that so why would that moment in particular be any different? And to boot it's even shown that the two of them together were fighting equally against Jiren, Vegeta had no lead in it

So almost every statement about him saying he is stronger than Goku is invalid right? Even when Vegeta did in fact do better in that arc than Goku did (Without KK i mean)

Yeah of course it was shown that way its was cinematic purposes....The fans would rage if goku was in the back shooting ki blasts while vegeta was on the front line, no?

And to end this debate, Honestly Unless Goku is FAR and i mean FAR greater than GoD Toppo, Vegeta's final explosion would finish Goku because like you guys said before... There no confirmation stating GoD Toppo is equal or greater than Goku

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

"So almost every statement about him saying he is stronger than Goku is invalid right?"

Yes.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Going with Goku FRA.

 

[Aeyu]

I think I'm going to go with Vegeta for reasons above.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

SSB Evolution Vegeta feels like Toei's way of saying: "THIS IS SSB2 VEGETA, GUYS"

Also, Vegeta DOES have more feats than SSBKKx20 Goku, mostly by defeating a GoD Powered up Candidate for Universe 11.

 

[Aeyu]

Goku got smacked around again until he got UI, meanwhile Vegeta roflstomped Toppo with his Final Explosion.

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

Even if Goku and Vegeta were equal, Goku's KK would be his downfall

And if anything goes south... Vegeta stomps Goku with Final Explosion, unless Goku is FAR greater than GoD Toppo

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Even if Goku and Vegeta were equal, Goku's KK would be his downfall
And if anything goes south... Vegeta stomps Goku with Final Explosion, unless Goku is FAR greater than GoD Toppo

That's another point, I forgotten about. Vegeta's Final Explosion and his willingness to use it. While it would take everything he has and leave him with nothing, he's at the point that he'd survive his own kamikaze. It's debatable if Goku could withstand that.

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

That's another point, I forgotten about. Vegeta's Final Explosion and his willingness to use it. While it would take everything he has and leave him with nothing, he's at the point that he'd survive his own kamikaze. It's debatable if Goku could withstand that.

Its debatable indeed, but speaking in factz and feats; unless Goku is FAR stronger than GoD Toppo, and i mean by quite a large margin which is highly unlikely, he will not be able to tank or withstand Vegeta's Final Explosion

And no matter how you put it, this is a RIVALRY fight. Goku and Vegeta are rivals and we know Vegeta will use everything in his power to prove he is above Goku in every way. I believe he is more than willing to use this technique rather than let Goku beat him. And if you do think about it the fight will wear them both down and Goku probably won't able to withstand it anyway due to the severe wounds he WILL receive.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@DatBoyNorbit

I fully agree.

At the end of the day, both will fight to the last of their strength, but Vegeta is the only one of the two who will, for all intened purposes, self-destruct to take out an opponent, if that's what he has to do.

 

[HST_Master]

So almost every statement about him saying he is stronger than Goku is invalid right? Even when Vegeta did in fact do better in that arc than Goku did (Without KK i mean)

Yeah of course it was shown that way its was cinematic purposes....The fans would rage if goku was in the back shooting ki blasts while vegeta was on the front line, no?

And to end this debate, Honestly Unless Goku is FAR and i mean FAR greater than GoD Toppo, Vegeta's final explosion would finish Goku because like you guys said before... There no confirmation stating GoD Toppo is equal or greater than Goku

I never said that, I said that he always says things like this and to take this specific one without any other context or solid proof it's true is faulty

And how so? The only thing he did was beat down Black which both Trunks and Goku had done before.

So even though it's shown that KKX20 Post Second UI Goku is doing just as well as SSBB Vegeta you write it off as cinematic?

Also this isn't necessarily the ToP stadium Goku still has IT to avoid such wide scale attacks

 

[TurboTriangle601]

I'd say Vegeta. His slight edge in experience and self-destruction could eventually lead to him winning, and Goku would be exhausted eventually from constantly using the Kaioken. That and the Final Flash could give him quite the boost. It made him go from getting ragdolled by a suppressed Cell to being able to destroy his arm.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

So, what's the vote count atm.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Goku FRA.

 

[Noahkaismith]

So, what's the vote count atm.

Son Goku: 13 (Aceraspire, BruceTheBatman, Unite My Rice, Hst master, Dragomer, TheDoom01, AllanSaiyan, Dust Collector, Quantu, Poinciana1971, ABoogieYesSir, Byakuya "Senbonzakura" Kuchiki, KinkiestSins)

Vegeta: 15 (Siegfried10, Bruce Reb, AntorusTheBurningThrone, Dzhindzholia, BUS73R998, TheC2, OuterversalRaditz, PlasticDimension, Grimreaperofjustice, DatBoiNorbit, SomebodyData, SceptileSpy, ShakeResounding, Aeyu, TurboTriangle601)

Inconclusive: 1 (Akreious)

 

[Tyranno223]

I personally vote for Goku, as he's been shown to be a smarter fighter overall in terms of tactics and has a wider range of abilities (ki-mines, hex destructo disc, IT, etc) and combined with his new found lack of tiring with kaioken putting him on par with Gets plus the fact vegeta's best attacks leave large openings and take ages to charge along with his more brawler esc tactics personally make my vote

 

[Bruce_Reb]

I mean, it's never been stated that Goku's kaioken no longer tires him, has it? He's only been using it for a few minutes

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Goku FRA

 

[LordGinSama]

Goku for the reasons above.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I mean, it's never been stated that Goku's kaioken no longer tires him, has it? He's only been using it for a few minutes

It's never been out right stated, I believe. But, to be fair, he has shown to use it multiple times in quick succession and hasn't shown much strain, on top of taking damage while using it.

However, stamina is still a thing, as pointed out in the beginning of the Tournament of Power. Goku and Vegeta didn't go SSB from the get-go because they were pacing themselves and the transformation takes up stamina that they may need later. In fact, Goku and Vegeta didn't go SSB unless an opponent warranted it and typically dropped the transformation it when it wasn't needed, IIRC.

The point that a lot of us are making, is that Goku may have mitigated the worst of the drawbacks but he's still taking a transformation that does take a toll on stamina (SSB) and using a technique that has always placed a strain on the body (Kaio-ken). In the long run, he's going to expend more overall energy to get a similiar performance level to Vegeta, whose new tranformation is never stated to have such problems or, at the very least, has never been noted to tire him out more than SSB does.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Goku's techniques and skill, in my opinion outclass Vegeta, I think they're really close in power and Goku has shown the ability to use Kaioken Consistently without much strain now, so I think that Goku should win because, he's just a better fighter

So I vote Goku

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Come on guys Kakarot is basically the main character ))

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

I never said that, I said that he always says things like this and to take this specific one without any other context or solid proof it's true is faulty

And how so? The only thing he did was beat down Black which both Trunks and Goku had done before.

So even though it's shown that KKX20 Post Second UI Goku is doing just as well as SSBB Vegeta you write it off as cinematic?

Also this isn't necessarily the ToP stadium Goku still has IT to avoid such wide scale attacks

Yes u did that's why i quoted u

That's debatable, its my opinon

Yes I do

Well its all about battle location then... N plus it isn't shown that Goku had to use IT to get off planet to dodge an attack, secondly i don't even think thats in character

 

[HST_Master]

No I did not, like I said taking that specific instance without any context is a faulty claim

How is it just "cinematics"? Shin even stated they were fighting separate but equal battles against Jiren.

I doubt he would have to get off planet moreso as IT to a safe distance from the blast radius, and he does use IT to spam and dodge in character, the Kale and Caulifla fight for example

 

[DatBoyNorbit]

@Master I know he spams IT, im saying he would IT off planet character

Wouldnt it look even if they guy your fighing doesnt have to fight you both any differently because you are around the same level, one of you is just slightly; maybe a little stronger

Vegeta's attack is not escapable the blast is to large and quick, it one of those "block or overpower it" attacks. And depending on where the fight is would determine wether or not he would leave a crater or pull a ****-it and blow up everything around him

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

someone close this its getting out of hand ;O;

 

[Kiryu2012]

Goku FRA.

 

[PaChi2]

Goku fra