• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Some Swamp thing stuff I found

Hykuu

Hykuu

2,459
486
Refer to this post -

I believe these scans can be used to

1. Validiate 1-A DC; as the god tiers (even the endless) already govern and transcend this totality which encompasses all dualities, quantum mechanics, reality in all its fundamental aspects.

2. Validate Infinite D DC, I don't think i should elaborate on why, its made pretty explict in the quantum realm.

3. Validate 1-A Presence (as if that is needed, it can be used to prove The Overvoid is completely devoid of everything comprehensible and incomprehensible, you get the idea.)

4. This is some sort of hax feat for ST but I really can't decide what this falls under.
 
Hykuu do you know where I can find the scan where it says that the Presence was born out of the Void or comes from the Void or exists in the Void? Something like that?
 
Will take a look, but just want to say that he already did (or rather, tried) doing something similar when he shifted his vibrational frequencies to match the Source Wall and was about to go into the Overvoid, but his mind couldn't handle the experience and was forced to mindhax himself into forgetting (if I remember the ending correctly).
 
He didn't go to the Overvoid, or even the source itself. It was later revealed in that comic they only reached a aleph (which is like, the closest thing to the source as shown in lucifer)
 
Can you remind me what issue it was? I also want to re-read it, if you don't mind I would apperciate you linking the comic.
 
issue 75, I am pretty sure my post literally posted everything in that comic other than the opening (why he did what he did) and the ending (irrelevant.)


Oh, I'd also like to add how Swamp thing later said he barely scratched the surface of the cosmology.
 
That issue was when he got the idea to make the sprout his actual son, right? (Well, daughter, lol)

I believe that was even foreshadowed in the one with the source, lol.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
That issue was when he got the idea to make the sprout his actual son, right? (Well, daughter, lol)
I believe that was even foreshadowed in the one with the source, lol.
Click to expand...
He then ate the sprout and made it a part of his being iirc.
 
Phantom Stranger rapping. Wasn't expecting that, lol.

Welp... I also don't know what kind of upgrade this can give to ST, lol. Should also contact Matthew.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Phantom Stranger rapping. Wasn't expecting that, lol.
Welp... I also don't know what kind of upgrade this can give to ST, lol. Should also contact Matthew.
Click to expand...
It was a rap off between Etrigan and PS in that comic, lmao.

I am not sure if this can even be applied to ST soley, but it should help with the higher tiered characters justifcations of infinite D and 1-A.
 
Can somebody link to the scan in which it is stated that The Presence was created from the (Over)void?
 
Hmm. That is not quite what was said. It says that he simply became self-aware.
 
The problem stated however, is that those Synnar Presence scans are kind of outdated. Is there more recent evidence of Presence being born from a 1-A Void? That would also cause more problems because the GEB, Pralaya and Mother Night are also 1-A Voids, does that mean Presence was born from them? Or is he the same person as them but multi-aspectual? Or are there multiple 1-A Voids in DC? I'm rambling at this point. But anyway.

All that Synnar scan implies is that the Presence himself is the Void, and was just previously not self aware. And that there was a time when the White 1-A Void that predated the Multiverse (which would later be the Presence) was still not self aware. Like how Aku came up. Which is one of the reasons why some think Presence = Overmonitor since they both shared the same exact characteristic at one point, which we all know would be weird.

So far, the most recent Presence = 1-A scans are from outdated DC Cosmologies that aren't really relevantized in the current run that cause inconsistencies with the current Monitorid Cosmology where Heaven and the Silver City is placed below the Monitor Sphere and Limbo. As you say, Grant doesn't seem to portray the Presence as 1-A.

Just looking for more evidence. The scan from Swamp Thing about God breathing beyond Space and Time is good. But that was at the time when DC's Cosmology was barely Multiversal so I'm not sure if we can still use the 1-A to the current DC Hierarchy.
 
I agree that Jim Starlin's DC Comics cosmology seems outdated.
 
DC's cosmology was already infinite dimensional in those scans as I've already shown.

I really don't use the synnar scans at all as I've already mentioned how they are out dated.

Let me break this down to you: GEB isn't exactly The Darkness before Creation in a sense, He's sort of the ABSENCE of it.

Pralaya herself is a mere aspect of the Void, Mother night embodies a entirely separate Void, she's like GEB, devoid of all things.

The White Void we are referring to is the One shown in Vertigo; Mentioned in Spectre 2001, etc. The Canvas where all creation is drawn on.

Grant's cosmology itself is inconsistent

Let me give you a example, 1. Speed force is where all matter stops 2. Limbo is where matter breaks down 3. Matter supposedly exists in the Monitor Sphere

There's also his lack of knowledge on platonic concepts and how he has contradicted that notion time and time again, I'm actually against using grant's cosmology here. And No, Cosmology retcons don't affect the Presence, he completely transcends all totalities on a fundamental level, all the retcons are just in accordance to his will.

And I don't think those specific realm existing in the sphere of Gods should downgrade them at all honestly.
 
Here is the correct scan regarding The Presence: [1]

It is supposedly a J.M. DeMatteis story.
 
Aren't all voids supposed to be aspects of the transdual Overmonitor?
 
^^


Prayla herself is just anothwr one of the cosmic tools who play a part of the presence's plan. "Before The Creator' can mean alot.
 
Magi Hussie said:
@Antvasima Someone mentioned to me that Pralaya (DC Comics) is the embodiment of this void & existed before the Presence and she is since mentions the same thing about her here.
Click to expand...
Pralaya existed before the Creator, which is different from God. DeMatteis said that Pralaya and the Creator are just an aspect of God.

I already brought up this contradicting stories about the Presence, which hes not treated as a character but more of as a concept of " God/Supreme being"
 
Okay. Thank you for the clarification, and welcome back to the wiki.
 
Thank you Sandman, Though can you leave a comment regarding the evidence I have posted above?
 
Can you post links to the relevant scans directly in this thread instead, and explain the context for each of them?
 
After Swamp Thing consumes the past, forgotten aspect of the Green, he decides to extend his awareness to find out the true meaning of the totality. At first, Swamp thing realizes that, he himself is the embodiment of the planet earth, and all that lives in it pollutes it and poisons it, he is the source of all life, every hero and villian which originated from earth.

Swamp thing then peeks back to the realm of time, and perceives the entire line of Evolution, coming to the realization that, Swamp thing is indeed the final product of any life form, and is the peak of all beings, he also hears a whisper, saying "duality."

He finds out what the whisper meant when he extends his awareness to the afterlife, Heaven and Hell, and perceives Good and Evil, arm wrestling, yet neither is clearly gaining any form of advantage on the other, this is of course a metaphor to "balance", and how both concepts need each other to continue existing, he percieves the great wheel of existence, where all beings and totalities are encompassed. This is a reference to Taoism, where duality is the building blocks of creation, and balance is key.

He then ventures to the Atomic level, the Microverse, where he percieves all the infintismal roots of "matter", Atoms, Molecules, etc. Which leads him to question: What is reality? What should we classify as "Real"

This is when he reaches, The Quantum. The Quantum realm is a place where the concepts of space time are irrelevant, where past, present and future co-exist in the multi dimensional infinity that it encompasses, a sea of infinite possibilities, Impossibilities and outcomes, where each infinitely small change creates another infinite set of possibilities. This is where he realizes that, all of reality is built on perception. In reference to schrodingers cat, Observation is what creates reality. All math exists here, every stem of quantum mechanics, metaphysics you have ever seen. All dualities and symmteries are encompassed within this realm, hence why it truly is what balance and sustains Actuality .

After Swamp Thing consumes the past, forgotten aspect of the Green, he decides to extend his awareness to find out the true meaning of the totality. At first, Swamp thing realizes that, he himself is the embodiment of the planet earth, and all that lives in it pollutes it and poisons it, he is the source of all life, every hero and villian which originated from earth.

Swamp thing then peeks back to the realm of time, and perceives the entire line of Evolution, coming to the realization that, Swamp thing is indeed the final product of any life form, and is the peak of all beings, he also hears a whisper, saying "duality."

He finds out what the whisper meant when he extends his awareness to the afterlife, Heaven and Hell, and perceives Good and Evil, arm wrestling, yet neither is clearly gaining any form of advantage on the other, this is of course a metaphor to "balance", and how both concepts need each other to continue existing, he percieves the great wheel of existence, where all beings and totalities are encompassed. This is a reference to Taoism, where duality is the building blocks of creation, and balance is key.

He then ventures to the Atomic level, the Microverse, where he percieves all the infintismal roots of "matter", Atoms, Molecules, etc. Which leads him to question: What is reality? What should we classify as "Real"

This is when he reaches, The Quantum. The Quantum realm is a place where the concepts of space time are irrelevant, where past, present and future co-exist in the multi dimensional infinity that it encompasses, a sea of infinite possibilities, Impossibilities and outcomes, where each infinitely small change creates another infinite set of possibilities. This is where he realizes that, all of reality is built on perception. In reference to schrodingers cat, Observation is what creates reality. All math exists here, every stem of quantum mechanics, metaphysics you have ever seen. All dualities and symmteries are encompassed within this realm, hence why it truly is what balance and sustains Actuality. (Easily Infinite D)

Then he straight up ascends his perception beyond all places and times, all matter and reality, all the infinite multiverses which exist as a infinitely looped and layered totality. He transforms to a being of pure thought and symmetry, and he then just ascends beyond all obstacles we have just discussed, all Time and Space, Mathematics, Concepts, Dualities, Symmteries, Quantum Mechanics, Perceptions, Theories, etc.

Then he finally reaches, The Void beyond all, where no Time and Space exist and ever will, everything we have just mentioned, is just a infintismal dot in comparison to the void, It's the Void beyond ALL Voids, Beyond all things, understandings. This is where God hirself exists, Expressings its divinity by creating everything, all the marvels and wonders, with a mere, insignificant breath.

This all lines up with the Concept of The Great Evil Beast
Now, some may know of the existence of GEB, yet have only seen a scan or 2 regarding him, not fully understanding the context behind his character.

GEB itself was in a slumber in the darkness beyond hell, only awakened after a cult invoked his return.
Cain here states:Firstly, Cain has no doubts of GEB being capable of overthrowing the forces of Heaven and Good in general, which is why people in general are already taking sides in this divine, Incomprehensible war.
He then explains how, GEB is no mere fallen angel or some creature gone rogue, He is the complete absence of God's light, and as shown earlier, the term God's light is referring to God's breath which created all that is, God didn't create GEB at all, GEB is the complete absence of quite literally, the term "everything".Everything we have just explained has completely no relevance in GEB.The Concept of GEB isn't a mere "light vs dark" story, Rather, a All out War of the Ultimate Darkness which is the absence of The Ultimate Holy Light.
GEB itself embodies the Ultimate Darkness which contrasts and is the Absence of The Light.

GEB then go on to absorb random beings into it's being to Understand The True Meaning of His Existence, It's actual Purpose.It first absorbs the Spectre, after his failed and futile attempt to stop it. Spectre instead teaches GEB Vengeance, Which isn't what he was seeking, so he casts him out.This scan also further proves the point of GEB being the "absence of light".

Here, as explictly stated by Etrigan and GEB: GEB itself was The Void predating Creation, the absence of everything. The Darkness before the Light. Etrigan explains how the fight between GEB and God (Evil and Good) will never end, it would rather be a endless fight lasting for eternity.

Then God decides to jump in and then merges with GEB: I think you would already know what this details with all this build up, It represents duality, how good and evil are needed for each others existence and to achieve the ultimate Balance. Hence why Etrigan stated the fight would be "Endless" They start armwrestling for literally every single issue from that point on.

here

here and here
 
fandom bugging so here is the last part of my comment

I don't really need to explain these scans as I've already explained what they mean multiple times already.
The Eternal Darkness is GEB's realm btw, It is where characters like Shade tap into to gain their power, And as explained here, It is also above the multiverse [http:// https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418155428086808588/466921399550869534/kppxI9Z_d.jpg and ] [http:// https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418155428086808588/466921868268666880/c9LLRYIl.jpg hypertime] [http:// https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418155428086808588/466921904893067274/KBNEAt3l.jpg completely.]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Elizio33
  • Locked
DC/Crisis Cosmology Revision
8 9 10
Replies
363
Views
33K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Suigetsuhyugs
[Marvel Comics] Some Upgrades and stuff...
Replies
15
Views
817
Suigetsuhyugs
Suigetsuhyugs
Swanyee9t76
  • Locked
Grant Morrison's cosmology ( DC cosmo split )
2 3
Replies
83
Views
7K
Deagonx
Deagonx
Swanyee9t76
Alpha/Omega *Infinite* ( DC/Vertigo comics ) tier 0 CRT
Replies
10
Views
2K
Swanyee9t76
Swanyee9t76
Eseseso
Marvel Gods Physiology Page, plus some extra stuff
2
Replies
70
Views
5K
Eseseso
Eseseso
Back
Top