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Some Random One Piece CRT

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joshpiece said:
Because he doesn’t have hardening right? Or idk seems like he could get rudimentary to me
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Hardening = black haki, right? Even without koka he could get it, from the page itself:

"At best, a character may be capable of utilizing Busoshoku: Koka, an ability that allows the user to increase the hardness of their body to become even more durable than steel."

So even among rudimentary level users Koka isn't a guaranteed thing, anyway i would create a crt to solve this but OP already has two ongoing.


But back on the main topic, when do you guys know when Zoro's dura neg is being a factor in his feats? Because Emini said to me some weeks ago that all of his attacks post TS could have dura neg included (he gave his feats during Fishman and Punk Hazard as proof, so all of his feats there are done with dura neg?)
 
XDragnoir said:
But back on the main topic, when do you guys know when Zoro's dura neg is being a factor in his feats? Because Emini said to me some weeks ago that all of his attacks post TS could have dura neg included (he gave his feats during Fishman and Punk Hazard as proof, so all of his feats there are done with dura neg?)
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I said he's capable of utilizing what is currently classified as durability negation (which I'm starting to disagree with due to new evidence being found in the Vivre card and the one piece website), this mainly accounts for his dragon twister which cut through the iron shields on fishman island or the door to punk hazzard which he cut with a no named air slash alongside Kin'emon, although I'm starting to disagree with that anyways since there are multiple occasions where Zoro showcases the ability without just lai techniques in the pre-timeskip.
 
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Some of the keys are still wrong, like with Doflamingo's Black Knight and himself. The tiering goes based off BK|Doffy, but then the AP/Key at the bottom is reverse with Doffy|BK

Also, is it necessary to say "x tier with Black Knight/himself" when the key clarifies this now? Pretty redundant.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Some of the keys are still wrong, like with Doflamingo's Black Knight and himself. The tiering goes based off BK|Doffy, but then the AP/Key at the bottom is reverse with Doffy|BK

Also, is it necessary to say "x tier with Black Knight/himself" when the key clarifies this now? Pretty redundant.
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I think that you make sense here. What about the scaling? I think usopp scaling to Caesar is fine dura wise since he ranked gastanet, but to Trebol no. I also think that we need to add crocodile, sabo, and burgess. All of them would be high 7-A, sabo scaling to fujitora, burgess scaling to sabo and crocodile scaling to Doflamingo
 
I don't think Crocodile could reliably scale to Doflamingo, particularly with how their encounter is dealt with in the manga:

Doffy stops Jozu, who is clearly going to whoop Croc. Doffy decapitated Croc without using Haki, so he isn't serious about killing him. Doffy then fully stops Crocodile, who charges at Doffy. Doffy is later shown unscathed while Crocodile is pissed off (probably cuz Mihawk cut down Mr.1) for some reason. We don't know what happened off-panel, but what's certain is that Doflamingo was not trying to kill Crocodile and the latter couldn't do anything to the former.

Also, for Sabo vs Fujitora, it's made clear Fujitora is holding back, and even confirms as such. He was using Sabo as an excuse NOT to go after Luffy, since Doflamingo had been keeping an eye on him to make sure he wasn't going to do anything to thwart him.

Burgess should already scale to Sabo, albeit weaker than him.
 
CinCameron20 said:
I don't think Crocodile could reliably scale to Doflamingo, particularly with how their encounter is dealt with in the manga:

Doffy stops Jozu, who is clearly going to whoop Croc. Doffy decapitated Croc without using Haki, so he isn't serious about killing him. Doffy then fully stops Crocodile, who charges at Doffy. Doffy is later shown unscathed while Crocodile is pissed off (probably cuz Mihawk cut down Mr.1) for some reason. We don't know what happened off-panel, but what's certain is that Doflamingo was not trying to kill Crocodile and the latter couldn't do anything to the former.

Also, for Sabo vs Fujitora, it's made clear Fujitora is holding back, and even confirms as such. He was using Sabo as an excuse NOT to go after Luffy, since Doflamingo had been keeping an eye on him to make sure he wasn't going to do anything to thwart him.

Burgess should already scale to Sabo, albeit weaker than him.
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Seems fair but I’m pretty sure they did clash offscreen evenly, and we don’t know who got hurt and who didn’t, which is why crocodile has a key for it. I also think that it’s fair then but sabo would 100% be high 7-A for scaling to the Fuji that was holding back, who is high 7-A. Usopp should have his dura scaled to Caesar, and I think that’s pretty much it atm.
 
CinCameron20 said:
I don't think Crocodile could reliably scale to Doflamingo, particularly with how their encounter is dealt with in the manga:

Doffy stops Jozu, who is clearly going to whoop Croc. Doffy decapitated Croc without using Haki, so he isn't serious about killing him. Doffy then fully stops Crocodile, who charges at Doffy. Doffy is later shown unscathed while Crocodile is pissed off (probably cuz Mihawk cut down Mr.1) for some reason. We don't know what happened off-panel, but what's certain is that Doflamingo was not trying to kill Crocodile and the latter couldn't do anything to the former.
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While it's true that Doflamingo wasn't trying to kill Crocodile (probably attempting to get him as a subordinate) Crocodile did still clash with Doffy's kick with neither overpowering the other, to me this is enough to justify Crocodile scaling to Doflamingo's base AP.
 
StrawHatArslan said:
Seems fair but I’m pretty sure they did clash offscreen evenly, and we don’t know who got hurt and who didn’t, which is why crocodile has a key for it. I also think that it’s fair then but sabo would 100% be high 7-A for scaling to the Fuji that was holding back, who is high 7-A. Usopp should have his dura scaled to Caesar, and I think that’s pretty much it atm.
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Crocodile has the key particularly for his other feats, like fighting Akainu (kind of) and taking a hit from Jozu (... kind of)

Sabo would actually just scale above Diamante for breaking his sword casually. Still High 7-A.
 
Black Knight Dura ~ Gear 2nd Luffy AP (no Haki)
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I'd still say it's just as likely to be base Luffy. There isn't enough evidence to confirm that Luffy was using Gear 2 there.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'd still say it's just as likely to be base Luffy. There isn't enough evidence to confirm that Luffy was using Gear 2 there.
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Even if that's the case, BK still took Octopus Stamp to the hand and suffered no visible damage (even knocked back Luffy), and from what I understand of the scaling: 994MT = Transformed Hody < Base Luffy w/ Haki < Black Knight Dura/AP

Even then, it should be fine to upscale the BK to baseline High 7-A given it's a measly .6% difference.

But I'm still of the opinion that the punch was from Gear 2nd Luffy in the slanted well.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Even if that's the case, BK still took Octopus Stamp to the hand and suffered no visible damage (even knocked back Luffy), and from what I understand of the scaling: 994MT = Transformed Hody < Base Luffy w/ Haki < Black Knight Dura/AP

Even then, it should be fine to upscale the BK to baseline High 7-A given it's a measly .6% difference.

But I'm still of the opinion that the punch was from Gear 2nd Luffy in the slanted well.
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We’ve been upscaling to high 7-A from 994 MT. Are you fine with upscaling boundman to 4.3 GT (6-C) from Gear 3rd which is 4 gigatons for scaling to kata
 
StrawHatArslan said:
We’ve been upscaling to high 7-A from 994 MT. Are you fine with upscaling boundman to 4.3 GT (6-C) from Gear 3rd which is 4 gigatons for scaling to kata
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I'm still waiting for 6-C Doflamingo to be a thing from the meteors 👀

But Gear 3rd only clashed with Katakuri once, so I don't want to upscale for something that could be a fluke (also Luffy needing Gear 4th amps to even win anyways)
  • Also, we only upscale if there's a clear disparity between individuals, like if 3 people at 4GT are one-shot back to back by another character, they would be High 7-A+ while the one who defeated them would be "Likely 6-C" via upscaling.
 
CinCameron20 said:
I'm still waiting for 6-C Doflamingo to be a thing from the meteors 👀

But Gear 3rd only clashed with Katakuri once, so I don't want to upscale for something that could be a fluke (also Luffy needing Gear 4th amps to even win anyways)
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Gear third clashed with a move Katakuri presented in his awakening which makes sense, that same move snakeman got hurt by btw, an EVEN bigger one clashed with Katakuri. That just proves Boundman > Gear Third > Snakeman
 
Kata didnt use a single awakening attack on snakeman, snakeman is normal High 7-A, gear third scales to awakening kata for matching an attack that was in his awakening, and a smaller one hurt snakeman when they clashed, and gear 4th boundman scales above gear third
 
StrawHatArslan said:
Gear third clashed with a move Katakuri presented in his awakening which makes sense, that same move snakeman got hurt by btw, an EVEN bigger one clashed with Katakuri. That just proves Boundman > Gear Third > Snakeman
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Oh, you're referring to Bound Man getting 6-C.

But keep in mind we don't scale Gear 4th from Gear 3rd. But from Gear 2nd.

Gear 2nd Luffy is just "stronger" than the previous key, no reason to give G4 6-C.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Oh, you're referring to Bound Man getting 6-C.

But keep in mind we don't scale Gear 4th from Gear 3rd. But from Gear 2nd.

Gear 2nd Luffy is just "stronger" than the previous key, no reason to give G4 6-C.
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It’s upscaling, we know luffy got stronger due to future sight which is why his gear third matched Katakuri, and it’s 4 gigatons. I’m upscaling the Boundman that fought kaido, who’s even stronger than that version of luffy, so upscaling it to 4.3 GT makes complete sense to do so.
 
It’s upscaling, we know luffy got stronger due to future sight which is why his gear third matched Katakuri
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Future Sight doesn't increase AP...
 
StrawHatArslan said:
It’s upscaling, we know luffy got stronger due to future sight which is why his gear third matched Katakuri, and it’s 4 gigatons. I’m upscaling the Boundman that fought kaido, who’s even stronger than that version of luffy, so upscaling it to 4.3 GT makes complete sense to do so.
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I actually agree personally, because I argue that according to DOFFY, Gear 4th is "several times stronger" than ALL previous abilities he's faced. The only reason it's denied to scale via Gear 3rd is because "We don't see Doffy get hit by it".

But I don't agree with "Getting stronger via future sight"... he just got stronger Haki in general as the battle went on.
 
Damage3245 said:
Future Sight doesn't increase AP...
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Well no, it states that he got stronger because of the future sight which is weird, why else was gear third matching Katakuris awakened Mochi, when A SMALLER one hurt snakeman when they clashed, and it wasn’t even his awakening. It shows gear third scales to 4 gigatons after that, and that Boundman post WCI which is even stronger, logically should upscale to 6-C baseline
 
I actually agree personally, because I argue that according to DOFFY, Gear 4th is "several times stronger" than ALL previous abilities he's faced. The only reason it's denied to scale via Gear 3rd is because "We don't see Doffy get hit by it".
Click to expand...

No, the reason it was denied is because that interpretation of Doflamingo's statement isn't likely to be correct.
 
CinCameron20 said:
I actually agree personally, because I argue that according to DOFFY, Gear 4th is "several times stronger" than ALL previous abilities he's faced. The only reason it's denied to scale via Gear 3rd is because "We don't see Doffy get hit by it".

But I don't agree with "Getting stronger via future sight"... he just got stronger Haki in general as the battle went on.
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If gear fourth was accepted to be multiplied x 4, then the luffy that fought kaido would be 12 GT, but it doesn’t so we just upscale to 4.3 GT
 
Damage3245 said:
No, the reason it was denied is because that interpretation of Doflamingo's statement isn't likely to be correct.
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I agree with this btw, that’s why we upscale instead of multiplying 4 GT by 3, upscaling to 4.3 makes more sense since we don’t have that multiplier accepted into gear third
 
So this is basically how it is, luffy got stronger after future sight, because Boundman before was only high 7-A+ but he got stronger during the kata fight, gear third matched awakening mochi, it’s high 7-A+ (4 GT) snakeman however is only unquantifiably above 1 GT because kata never used an awakening attack on it, and a weaker version of the attack that gear third matched hurt snakeman when clashing, and gear 4th Boundman scales above both of them, it’s luffys strongest form and then he fought kaido which was an even stronger luffy and used Boundman. So upscaling from gear third, post WCI luffy Boundman that fought kaido upscales to 4.3 GT
 
Damage3245 said:
That's not future sight, that's just Haki development.
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Still shows he got stronger, plus that’s not true only scan available. But what I told you above stands with the scans, non awakening kata with a weaker version of the same attack hurts snakeman, awakened kata with a stronger attack matches gear third. Boundman against kaido is also unquantifiably stronger. There were statements of him progressing in battle which is what happened here, and he got stronger post katakuri fight. Those 2 reasons are why he upscales to 4.3 GT, which is 6-C
 
Sanji (up to Dressrosa):

AP = Clashed equally with Vergo before and even after his leg was fractured
Dura = Clashed with Vergo but had his fibula cracked when only blocking, though Sanji's body had been damaged before their fight
DJ = Harmed a steroid amped Wadatsumi, who could somewhat take a G2 attack without it. Doflamingo recognized it's strength while he said G2 was weak.

Sanji (WCI):

AP = With a surprise attack cracked Oven's neck, who has the sturdiest body of the Charlotte siblings, and also sent him flying
Dura = Clashed with a giant version of Daifuku's genie, should scale to his AP
DJ = Stronger than before


And i want to add that both Vergo's "fractured sanji's fibula with a single kick" and Daifuku's "overpowered Sanji with ease" aren't the full context of their fights, one he had pre-fight damage and the other Daifuku used two named attacks against one simple counter from Sanji (we later see Sanji clashing equally with a giant genie anyway so it makes no sense to place Daifuku above Sanji), but idc if you guys want to keep them.
 
StrawHatArslan said:
Still shows he got stronger, plus that’s not true only scan available. But what I told you above stands with the scans, non awakening kata with a weaker version of the same attack hurts snakeman, awakened kata with a stronger attack matches gear third. Boundman against kaido is also unquantifiably stronger. There were statements of him progressing in battle which is what happened here, and he got stronger post katakuri fight. Those 2 reasons are why he upscales to 4.3 GT, which is 6-C
Click to expand...
Luffy didn't get stronger because of his development with Observation Haki. He got stronger because he kept pushing himself beyond his limits until he could actually be a genuine threat to Katakuri.

Observation Haki isn't the only thing that gets stronger in combat. Rayleigh's most definitely suggesting all types get stronger.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Luffy didn't get stronger because of his development with Observation Haki. He got stronger because he kept pushing himself beyond his limits until he could actually be a genuine threat to Katakuri.

Observation Haki isn't the only thing that gets stronger in combat. Rayleigh's most definitely suggesting all types get stronger.
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Well my point was that he did get stronger, obviously not because of future sight. That’s why gear third scales to 4 GT and snakeman is weaker than gear third, only being unquantifiably above 1 GT since it never matched awakening kata and awakening kata never was used against snakeman, a weaker attack from kata hurt snakeman when clashing, but a stronger version of it equally clashed with gear third and when in awakening. Boundman is stronger than both so it upscales to 4.3 GT. If gear 4th was a multiplier on top of gear 3rd then it would be 12 GT, but it is not so we just upscale
 
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