Some addition for Madoka....and possibly Homura too.

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

My very first CRT, so please go easy on me.

Okay, there is something I realized when I saw the reply in my discussion thread. According to this, Kyuubey stated that Madoka has become and exists as nothing but a concept. This is that bugged me, don't all concepts lack of anything aside of the aspect they represent? I believe this is where her Soul Manipulation Immunity came from since concept doesn't have a soul. But, doesn't this technically make her mindless too? isn't concept lack of mind?

And before you said anything, Yes Homura did minscrew Madoka through her 3-D avatar. But it's only proved that her Mindhax is more potent than we originaly thought if it can affected something as mindless as a concept.

So, perhaps it should be okay if we add Immunity to Regular Mind Manipulation (As a concept, Madoka is technically mindless) to Goddess Madoka. And also we should add (Able to affect Goddess Madoka who is technically mindless due of her being a concept) after Homura's Mind Manipulation ability.

So, what do you think? Like I said earlier, this is my first time doing a revision thread. I'll be okay even if the staff members doesn't approve this.

 

[Kaltias]

Actually, she is immune because she killed Ult. Kriemhild, who is her soul

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

But still, do concepts really have a soul and mind?

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, nothing was stated about them lacking either of those. We know that they lack a soul because both destroyed it on screen without consequences. But I don't think that they lack a mind.

Madoka is still difficult to affect due to her type 9 anyway

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I thought Madoka survives destroying Ult. Kriemhild was because her Acausality, not because her soul manip immunity. Her Ult. Madoka key also said she doesn't have a soul which I assume the reason is because she is a concept.

Might as well wait for the others input.

 

[Kaltias]

Hardly. It isn't like there is a paradox involved or anything, as well as the fact that the Soul Gem that would become Kriemhild was formed alongside the LoC (that's the reason why I added it at least).

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Um....I thought her profile's note also said she destroyed her own future dark form (through some paradox).

 

[Kaltias]

I don't really know where Gretchen being her "future" dark form comes from. It happened as soon as Madoka became the LoC.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

No, it has been shown in anime last episode that she destroyed Ult. Kriemhild before she completely reset the causality of the worlds. just before Kyuubey explains to her that she has become a concept.

 

[SomebodyData]

Nah we see her transform into Ultimate Madoka right before she "kills" Ult. Kriemhild.

Also the future dark form probably comes from when Madoka's page wasn't as good.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

But Ult. Kriemhild is supposed to be the Final Timeline Madoka's witch form, Kyuubey even stated that Madoka contains all the despairs throughout the PMMM Multiverse before again (through some Paradox) was destroyed by Ult. Madoka which is also her future form, (the result of her wish). Basically, Madoka has two future forms. But since she's trully believe in her wish, Ult. Madoka was able to destroy Kriemhild (who was also the last witch in PMMM Multiverse at that time) to complety fulfil her wish.

 

[SomebodyData]

Its not by a paradox, (Nor does she actually destroy it as shown by Wraith Arc), it's really just the despair she accumulated as LoC.

 

[Kaltias]

The point is more the soul (Gretchen) and Madokami herself being separated than anything. It shows that she doesn't need it

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Oh, okay then. Now I understand where Ult. Kriemhild came from. But still, can you elaborate me the definition of concept?

 

[SomebodyData]

A concept is an abstract principle of the multiverse in this case

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Hmmm....I will conceed my about her soul manip immunity was from her being a concept.

But, does a concept need a mind to operate? Because faccording this, all Madoka need to do to operate her "concept" is by simply existing.

Edit: I gotta go, it's a twelve in my country. gotta go sleep.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well technically, most characters in this tier are already abstract or got their way around conventional biological Mind Manipulation, so it would be kinda redundant. But I'll let that discussion go to anyone else.