• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

So why are New 52 Superman and comparable characters "Unknown" in combat speed?

DeathstroketheHedgehog

DeathstroketheHedgehog

1,160
186
I really don't get it. Like, there's not even an "at least" rating for scaling up to DC Street Tiers or anything.

New 52 Superman apparently has FTL movement speed. Is there something I don't understand about movement and combat speed that would separate the two keys? Because literally nothing is said on the speed page about Movement speed to begin with anyways. Honestly, "movement speed" sounds like a general overall key anyways, which only makes it more confusing as for why Superman has an Unknown key with a known key.

Could we not just straight up put them all at FTL?
 
@POTM

I would appreciate your help with this.
 
Also, the full list of characters currently scaling this way is:

Superman (Post-Flashpoint)

Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)

Swamp Thing (Post-Flashpoint)

Aquaman (Post-Flashpoint)

Supergirl (Post-Flashpoint)

H'el (Post-Flashpoint)

Rao (Post-Flashpoint)

The Drowned

Orion

Darkseid

Highfather

Also, The Devastator is currently "Likely MFTL+" but I don't think the likely should be there, given his scaling and justification.
 
ItalianGuy1234 said:
I honestly don't know why since Superman has many feats above Massively Faster Than Light
Click to expand...
New 52 Superman has MFTL feats? I know Post-Crisis does, but New 52?
 
He has one MFTL+ feat and he scales to the GL corps who also have MFTL+ feats (Superman fought Orion who reacted to multiple GLs at once)
 
There's some "traveling around the universe" feats for some characters, but nothing in combat, afaik. There's Flash's "femtosecond" quote, but that one always felt kinda sketchy.
 
InfiniteSped said:
There's some "traveling around the universe" feats for some characters, but nothing in combat, afaik. There's Flash's "femtosecond" quote, but that one always felt kinda sketchy.
Click to expand...
Yeah but I'm not sure if somebody should scale to Barry.
 
┬À Traveling from Pluto to Earth in one panel

┬À Flying to Earth from the edge of the universe in 2 months while heavily weakened by the Doomsday virus

┬À Keeping up with Barry Allen and actually tagging him

These are the feats that come into my mind
 
  • The Pluto thing was one minute and took a page of dialogue to do so
  • That was after he purged the virus with Brainiac in a black hole wasn't it
  • While legit it was a pretty early Barry
He does have MFTL+ scaling with Supergirl and the Lantern Corps though. But I don't know if that technically counts as combat speed.
 
Yes, and? It's Massively Faster Than Light+ anyway?

Superman was weakened, since he purged the Doomsday virus he kept within himself, I don't think it was Brainiac.

That's true, but Superman has improved as the Post Flashpoint series went on as well so he could likely still scale.
 
  • The maximum distance between the Earth and Pluto according to a quick Google search is 7.5 billion km. (7.5 billion / 60) / light speed = 416.9x FTL. Not a MFTL+ feat
  • He dumped Brainiac into a black hole, which also purged the virus. Its a MFTL+ feat, I just don't think he was weakened when he did it
  • Its possible for the Flash's speed improvements to be far better than Superman's
 
Yes, alright. Can we just apply the feats to his profile so that the Post Flashpoint Profiles get their ratings back?

At least Massively FTL (416x Faster than light via the first feat) likely Massively FTL+ (Scaling from traveling to the edge of the universe and back in 2 months & being comparable to Green Lanterns and Orion and being possibly comparable to the Flash)
 
As I recall it, the whole issue brought up was that we're separating a few Post-Flashpoint characters into movement and combat speed when we don't do that for hordes of other profiles, since all of these Superman-tier characters are perfectly capable of reacting to each other's attempted blitzes.
 
Didn't H'El reacted to Superman's attempt of speedblitzing him by flying towards him during their fight and casually bitch slapped him away with one arm? So it makes no sense why is he only FTL. Same with Supergirl when she can keep up with Flash during their fight. The whole notious of The New 52 characters combat speed not scaling to their travel speed is very ridiculous.
 
Because there's no indication in the New 52 that they react as rapidly as they fly. Post-Crisis has multiple fests involving similar inter-galactic distances, but in those the characters rapidly react or change their directions. Superman's feat is just flying in a straight line for six months.
 
Yeah, it's dumb. If he has FTL movement speed, his attacking speed should scale. It's not possible to move faster than you can punch. No one moves faster than they can punch, travel speed scales to combat speed, but combat speed doesn't scale to travel speed. Find me a single person irl and in fiction who can move faster than they can punch. It's not logical.
 
Find me a single person irl

Find me someone IRL capable of bench pressing a planet for five days without sweating or blow up solar systems and I'll agree with you. Fiction doesn't follow logic on a 1:1 basis and none of Superman's combat related feats are anywhere near his inter-galactic travel speed feats.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Find me a single person irl
Click to expand...
Find me someone IRL capable of bench pressing a planet for five days without sweating or blow up solar systems and I'll agree with you. Fiction doesn't follow logic on a 1:1 basis and none of Superman's combat related feats are anywhere near his inter-galactic travel speed feats.

That's a false equivalance, because moving faster than you can punch and blowing up solar systems obviously do not compare in the slightest. Don't take this the wrong way because I am trying to be honest, not mean, but the logic you used was nonsensical.


Back to what I was saying, find me a character in fiction that has faster travel speed than combat speed. I see a lot of instances where durability gets scaled to AP, because who can punch stronger than the amount of damage they can take? If you're scrawny and weak, you'll have little AP and have little durability but if you've worked out to improve your power and you're high in muscle and strength, your AP should be high and the reason why you have high AP should be the reason why you also have high durability.


If you have a problem with movement speed scaling to combat speed then you should have a problem with durability scaling to AP.
 
That's a false equivalance

Its not. Fiction is not IRL. It doesn't need to follow logic or adhere to rules. Its why Marvel and DC's Earth hasn't been destroyed whenever Wonder Woman misses a punch or Thor hits the ground.

Back to what I was saying, find me a character in fiction that has faster travel speed than combat speed

Iron Man and DCAU Green Lanterns are the first thst come to mind. There's plenty more examples in general fiction as well. New 52 Superman lacks any speed fest even near his inter-galataic stuff, which is why his stat was split in the first place.

I see a lot of instances where durability gets scaled to AP

There's also plenty of examples where it doesn't or shouldn't. In almost every case where someone's AP scsles to their durability, they fight someone who physically harmed them. But unlike speed fiction doesn't treat durability as having different settings (unless it's against blades weapons for some reason).

If you have a problem with movement speed scaling to combat speed then you should have a problem with durability scaling to AP.

I do and have aruged against it in the past to varying degrees of success. Someone like DCAU Superman should not be moon level when he never fights someone capable of damaging him outside of hax.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
1st paragraph: It could be that Thor and Wonder Woman were holding back and that's why the planet they were on didn't get destroyed.

2nd paragraph: Okay, it's nice to see some characters that are that case then, even though Marvel and DC are one of if not, the most inconsistent verses ever created, but I'll still give you that.

3rd paragraph: Good reasoning. If there is a character with less durability than their AP, what do they use to get that AP? Do they use a weapon or a special fighting technique? That's what I want to know because I sincerely find it interesting.

4th and final paragraph: Okay good, I admire you for that. In that case, Gran Torino from MHA should not have large building level durability because no one has actually hit him with that much power and him tanking a punch from All Might that is the same punch that knocks All For One to the ground and injures him and still being able to be in top shape and use his quirk perfectly with no signs of damage after the punch is such an obvious outlier that it's not even funny.
 
  • 1st bullet: My point is that its not physically possible to do that. You can't focus energy in the kilofoe that well IRL. But you can in fiction
  • 3rd bullet: In general characters with higher AP than durability fall in three classes: Attack is not releated to physicals (Homeleess Emperor from OPM), they use a weapon (see any IRL instrament of war), or the attack will inflect massive amounts of self-damage (suicide attacks are common examples). Durability greater than AP is just the reverse. The character can withstand much more force then they've ever shown to output.
  • 4th bullet: I mean.... okay? If you feel he shouldn't scale bring it up. If I were to hazard a guess I would say it comes from upscaling from some student, but I'm not sure how this wiki handles MHA scaling chains.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Because there's no indication in the New 52 that they react as rapidly as they fly. Post-Crisis has multiple fests involving similar inter-galactic distances, but in those the characters rapidly react or change their directions. Superman's feat is just flying in a straight line for six months.
Click to expand...
Just like every single Dragon Ball characters?
 
Qawsedf still makes sense to me.

So what, if anything, should we do here?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Emirp sumitpo
DC Comics - New 52 Superman Speed Feat Addition
Replies
18
Views
1K
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
Transcending
  • Locked
Superman (Rebirth) keys and additions
2 3 4
Replies
126
Views
7K
Veronica
Veronica
Brahmatman
Darkseid's abilities (Pre-Flashpoint)
Replies
18
Views
3K
AerrowStorm1
AerrowStorm1
LordGriffin1000
  • Locked
Danny Phantom A Glitch in Time - Potential Immeasurable Speed Upgrade (Or just Dimensional Travel)
2
Replies
50
Views
3K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
Emirp sumitpo
  • Locked
DC Comics - The Legendary DC Heralds Upgrade
27 28 29
Replies
1K
Views
69K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Back
Top