- 31,372
- 34,118
I'm currently working on a rebuttal and so are others, most notably LuckyEmile. But I will be there.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
"Travel between the dimensions" implies that they're not even part of the same universe. That sounds more like the word universe there actually meant multiverse. A universe can't have many parallel dimensions, thats self contradictoryI don't see how the Dream Stone makes universes with a distance between them comparable to distance between universe in a multiverse, if I create a bunch of stars then they sure are stars, but the distance between them is what's proven, not what the distance between real stars is.
Destroy all space and time can be as in A) the universe or B) more than just the universe, it's doesn't add anything other than the feat being Low 2-C rather than lower.
And there is something Medeus didn't see in a page of the guide he posted last time.
"To reach the end of the book is to deliver crushing finality on the universe." (Bleck was) "Determined to wreak revenge on the universe and its many dimensions" "Merlon charges Mario to find eight Pure Hearts that allow travel between the dimensions threatened by Bleck's plans. If Mario can amass the Pure Hearts and rescue his friends, maybe the universe stands a chance of surviving Count Bleck."
On the second one, the target of the destruction is the universe & its many dimensions, meaning the many "worlds" in the game making up the universe, this being a singular universe, and those plural dimensions only being within that singular universe.
Also given the large relevance of the topic in this verse, and comments like this and this, I find appropriate to make this a staff thread and may for example Foxthefox1000 and LuckyEmile keep on commenting freely. The rest can still do so only some small limitations and while there are no more comments like "Another Mario downgrade..." and "Quick Mario supporters spam the thread with arguments and diagreeing with the CRT before he can come back".
They are not random mystical orbs, they are what form the universes. Dreams create universes, dream stone has the power of those dreamsThe dream's power is irrelevant because they are just random mystical orbs they create as a product of sleeping and we have no idea what the aspects of this power the orbs have are because it's super vague and not well-explained at all, but it doesn't support 2-B. In no universe does what the game says support 2-B without the "made of dreams" statement.
Also, that's literally not the only definition. The game also says that the Whoa Zone is outside of space in the text in jaoanes I believe. Or at least I think it says that.
The orbs don't create the dreams nor do they form universes? The dreams create these orbs contradicting the orbs being dreams that are universes. The ORBS are what powers the Stone revealed in that cutscene.
This is so silly. I don't know why you're getting likes for spouting nonsense.
Why do the orbs matter here again? We were just talking about dream powerNo. I disagree with the notion that these orbs that are byproducts of people dreaming and literally aren't provably universes nor the dreams themselves are somehow good proof for 2-B
That's not what I said, I know they're many universes, what I don't see is why the distance between them would be comparable to the distance between universes in a multiverse rather than something less complex due to this universes being created, from dreams no less."Travel between the dimensions" implies that they're not even part of the same universe. That sounds more like the word universe there actually meant multiverse. A universe can't have many parallel dimensions, thats self contradictory
What Executor noted is true but I did not do something that should never be done, I went on context, the very thing needed in that language; "Determined to wreak revenge on the universe and its many dimensions" "Merlon charges Mario to find eight Pure Hearts that allow travel between the dimensions threatened by Bleck's plans." to me meant 1) the many dimensions affected had to come from within the universe in the prophecy, as this is stated. 2) The dimensions visited across the game are likely the ones threatened by the prophecy, not more, as that would not be proven. 3) "The universe" is likely not plural, as this is not proven (and would otherwise imply all universes have within them many dimensions like "the universe where this game takes place", if I'm allowed to say that). Could the text still target "all universes and their many dimensions", and the dimensions threatened by Bleck's plans by only some of the dimensions threatened? It could if proven, it's unlikely otherwise.Also, to address the allegations Eficiente made about me overlooking something. I did not overlook the scan I found, while it does say "universe" as opposed to Universes or Multiverses. He's literally saying the very thing Executor noted you should never do. Plus, key word is "And all dimensions within it". Again, dimensions is literally plural. Plus it clearly means Universe in terms of "All time and Space". Saying it destroys 2 or 3 universes but not the entire multiverse would be a Golden Mean fallacy. But we clearly see more than one "World" or "Dimension" get effected, meaning it's unlikely to just mean Low 2-C or 2-C and that the entire multiverse of Mario's cosmology is easily being effected.
It's your interpretation that World 4 being like this would conflict in any way. Each world had its different gimmick to represent parts of the universe, "The Universe being its own thing next to other parallel places being more common", all of that makes perfect sense, nothing there can be grabbed and said "No this conflicts with the idea of them all being a universe and so that can't be the case."Furthermore, we need consistency. Keep in mind, World 4 alone was also called a world/dimension; the latter only at the beginning though. And it's official Japanese name alone is daiuchu, literally meaning "The Universe". So World 4 alone is Universe sized and has multiple "Endless" or "Infinite" statements. It's not consistent for that to be the only one of the 8 objective worlds that isn't a Universe. Plus Merlumina describing them as basically parallel worlds further emphasizes this. Calling them "Worlds" instead of "Dimensions" means absolutely nothing when they contextually mean the same thing. The other 6 worlds can't just be random planets within the same "World/Universe" as World 4 also has part 2 being a planet landed on as well as the edge of the universe being a stage within it. It wouldn't be called "Worlds" instead "Parts of the world" if that was the case. Makes no sense for a much larger portion to be held in the same banner. That would be like if going all over Asia was chapter 4's world in another game while every other world were just random countries within Asia being called worlds on the same sentence as the whole continent itself.
This is another jump in logic. Yes they have different spaces, they wouldn't be "many dimensions" if they didn't. But this does not show at all that they have to be in different universes, not unless you want that to be the case. This are many dimensions, they don't have any reason to have the same all within them.Also, there is evidence that World 1 and World 2 are clearly not Planet Earth or Mushroom Kingdom. See here. World 1 and World 2 have different starry sky structures; within Mario's Universe, the starry skies have relatively similar design and not planet has the skies shaped like math formulas or string theory symbols. But World 1 and World 2 respectively do. These are 1st hints World 1 and World 2 are different bodies of space or even Universe.
Sure. This is a neutral point to make.Now the next nail in the coffin is World 6, details and references to different worlds are just that, references. It just means World 6 has their own versions of TTYD party or artifacts that look like different worlds artifacts. Not that it's the same universe let alone planet as those other worlds.
Sure.To further emphases this, visual demonstrations are even better than statements. It cannot be denied that when the Void nukes World 6, it doesn't just destroy the kingdom, but also all the stars in the sky leaving nothing but a blank white background. Which means one of two things, World 6 either takes place in a Tier 4 sized pocket reality, or an entire universe. And a completely different planet from all the less.
Ig it doesn't matter but I think that would be a technicality.Keep in mind, nuking all those stars in the background would actually just make galaxies visible, implying it also nuked any galaxies too. So the lowest it could be interpreted is a 3-B feat if we're going to assume it's the body of space as all the rest.
They are different dimensions, so they're not "more likely different realities altogether", but objectively so regardless of what are the differences they have.But Worlds 1, 2, 4, and 6 are more likely different realities altogether.
Sure for all of this. None of it means anything to your point.Especially World 7, which the entire premise is that it's an afterlife. Everyone knows World 7 is basically the Mario multiverse's version of Heaven and Hell being treated as its own world. But even people from other dimensions are implied to go there when they die, including Mario's and people from Flipside. Yes, Flipside is a town, but its also located in its own dimension.
Worlds as in planets or dimensions? Either way, what about it?Also, even before entering World 6, Merlon makes mention that other worlds might have already been consumed by the void. Which the purpose of Sammer Kingdom's destruction exists to prove his theory right.
Ok. But this is a neutral point.And as for Bowser jumping off what appears to be an Earth like planet in World 7, it just means Heaven in Mario is located on A planet, much like Dragon Ball's version of Heaven, but that does NOT prove Mario's Universe version of Heaven is physically located on Earth or Mushroom Kingdom. World 7 as a whole is still different from all the rest. Same with Hell having it's own unique sky structure.
just close this thread, make a staff discussion and then post it mate, add some more evidence while you're at it. Big nerfs need big effort not a crt open to everyone and their dead great great grandmaI see no one is actually rebutting nor acknowledging my arguments. Just blind agreements despite me pointing out all the inaccuracies and inconsistencies. All that's been said so far is "well it's up to interpretation" and then poor arguments by DDM me and eficiente tackled with nothing new said since.
This is so silly. I don't know why you're getting likes for spouting nonsense.
Wonder what excuses will be made for these.
really does not paint your argument in a good light. Nobody likes it when a thread turns sour, and you acting like this is what will make this thread turn sour if you keep this up. So if you could, respectfully address the arguments instead of calling peoples' arguments "piss-poor" and "nonsense" and whatnot, as that would make this a lot better. Remember that the people arguing have feelings too.Assuming for no reason that Heronicus has Dimensional Travel because the fact he goes between the worlds doesn't support your argument is a piss-poor excuse to try and save face.