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Smurf hax: Either defining or killing it

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Draft seems pretty good. I guess the "other" category sort of covers any other things I'd like to bring up (higher-dimensional characters that aren't high-tiered, infinitely large characters that aren't higher-dimensional).

The justification for RF-Transcendence 4 is something I kinda disagree with at the end. If they actually enter the fiction, as some characters can, I'd expect the part of them that enters to still be affected. While there are some characters that would "enter" using avatars they create, I think that those would generally be susceptible to the same abilities, unless they can rewrite reality through means such as Plot Manipulation.

Another way an ability can be shown to have smurf potency / power is if it significantly affects a structure of qualitatively superior size. E.g. existence erasure which can affect a (tiering-applicable) higher-dimensional structure or character would qualify.

As I said before, I don't like this being done so generally unless it can be focused.

Plus, saying this does make it a bit confusing when you go on to say that a tier 2 character erasing a 16-dimensional structure would only get range/AoE from that.

Also, the file you posed on transfernow can't be downloaded any more.
 
DontTalkDT said:
www.transfernow.net

Transfer not found - TransferNow

Click to download the files for this transfer with TransferNow
www.transfernow.net www.transfernow.net

Put my comments to your draft in a text file, cause I used coloured text for comments... Should just have put the comments in a sandbox of my own from the start then it would have been far easier, but I didn't think that far at the time
Click to expand...
Sure
 
So which staff members have agreed with DontTalk's draft here so far?
 
Antvasima said:
So which staff members have agreed with DontTalk's draft here so far?
Click to expand...
I am working on adjusting the draft as he gave me the current suggestions, also I am now at my main PC, so I think it will be faster and effective for me.
I still need to do the task you gave me for DC ones.

@DontTalkDT I would like to have a confirmation if you still want the idea of the page to stay, so I can adjust it (since I saw you having other suggestion which is replacing the draft in tiering system FAQ or resistance or anywhere else), so my work won't be worthless and at the end it won't be added.
 
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ImmortalDread said:
I am working on adjusting the draft as he gave me the current suggestions, also I am now at my main PC, so I think it will be faster and effective for me.
I still need to do the task you gave me for DC ones.

@DontTalkDT I would like to have a confirmation if you still want the idea of the page to stay, so I can adjust it (since I saw you having other suggestion which is replacing the draft in tiering system FAQ or resistance or anywhere else), so my work won't be worthless and at the end it won't be added.
Click to expand...
@DontTalkDT
 
Antvasima said:
So which staff members have agreed with DontTalk's draft here so far?
Click to expand...
We're the only ones who have commented on it.

I'm generally fine with it, but suggested a few changes, and you agreed with it.
 
Okay. Noted.

Which other staff members have helped out in this thread, so I can call for them?
 
In general: DemiiPowa, AbaddonTheDisappointment, LordGriffin1000, KLOL506, Planck69, Ultima_Reality, Theglassman12, Moritzva, Celestial_Pegasus, Mr._Bambu, DarkDragonMedeus, Just_a_Random_Butler

With eval rights: LordGriffin1000, Planck69, Ultima_Reality, Theglassman12, Moritzva, Celestial_Pegasus, Mr._Bambu, DarkDragonMedeus
 
ImmortalDread said:
@DontTalkDT I would like to have a confirmation if you still want the idea of the page to stay, so I can adjust it (since I saw you having other suggestion which is replacing the draft in tiering system FAQ or resistance or anywhere else), so my work won't be worthless and at the end it won't be added.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I'm split on where to put the information. It's kinda difficult, since the topics are of course related, but neither smurf nor resistance covers them fully. If we made it a page, what would it be called?
Opinions on how to handle that are welcome.

Agnaa said:
Draft seems pretty good. I guess the "other" category sort of covers any other things I'd like to bring up (higher-dimensional characters that aren't high-tiered, infinitely large characters that aren't higher-dimensional).
Click to expand...
Yeah. I guess if those become a common concern we can explicitly spell them out later.

Agnaa said:
The justification for RF-Transcendence 4 is something I kinda disagree with at the end. If they actually enter the fiction, as some characters can, I'd expect the part of them that enters to still be affected. While there are some characters that would "enter" using avatars they create, I think that those would generally be susceptible to the same abilities, unless they can rewrite reality through means such as Plot Manipulation.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, sure. I was thinking more in terms of entering without reducing their level of existence. (Say, poking a hole in a painting) How about follwing adjusted version:
These abilities would be incapable of effecting their target, as it would be outside of their range and the change itself would arguably be one fictional to them, possibly not even affecting their access to the reality. An exception would be if they enter fictional reality by means that turns themselves fictional for that period. In such a case, they would be considered to be possible to be affected, if there are no feats or statements of the opposite.
Click to expand...

Agnaa said:
Another way an ability can be shown to have smurf potency / power is if it significantly affects a structure of qualitatively superior size. E.g. existence erasure which can affect a (tiering-applicable) higher-dimensional structure or character would qualify.[/B][/I]

As I said before, I don't like this being done so generally unless it can be focused.
Click to expand...
Would adding: "Note that if the ability can't be focussed its potency on a small object is not necessarily be smurf in terms of power/potency." suffice?

Agnaa said:
Plus, saying this does make it a bit confusing when you go on to say that a tier 2 character erasing a 16-dimensional structure would only get range/AoE from that.
Click to expand...
I don't think I say that it only gives range. I only mention that it does give range, no? And... that's true, isn't it? Like, one reason I bring this example up for both is to make clear how the different categories don't exclude each other.

Agnaa said:
Also, the file you posed on transfernow can't be downloaded any more.
Click to expand...
I think only ID needed that, as it was just my feedback. I can put it into a sandbox if it is for some reason necessary, though.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Honestly, I'm split on where to put the information. It's kinda difficult, since the topics are of course related, but neither smurf nor resistance covers them fully. If we made it a page, what would it be called?
Opinions on how to handle that are welcome.
Click to expand...
Then I will wait before I add the adjustments, don't want my work to be worthless at the end.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Oh yeah, sure. I was thinking more in terms of entering without reducing their level of existence. (Say, poking a hole in a painting) How about follwing adjusted version:
Click to expand...
Sure.
DontTalkDT said:
Would adding: "Note that if the ability can't be focussed its potency on a small object is not necessarily be smurf in terms of power/potency." suffice?
Click to expand...
Sure.
DontTalkDT said:
I don't think I say that it only gives range. I only mention that it does give range, no? And... that's true, isn't it? Like, one reason I bring this example up for both is to make clear how the different categories don't exclude each other.
Click to expand...
It does sound like they exclude each other, particularly because of this paragraph at the end
It is important to note that, contrary to abilities with smurf power or potency, abilities with smurf range or area of effect alone do not necessarily bypass all regular resistance on the level of the user.
Click to expand...
DontTalkDT said:
I think only ID needed that, as it was just my feedback. I can put it into a sandbox if it is for some reason necessary, though.
Click to expand...
Ah, since I got there pretty quickly, I figured that if I didn't get it, ID wouldn't have gotten it either.
 
Agnaa said:
Sure.

Sure.

It does sound like they exclude each other, particularly because of this paragraph at the end


Ah, since I got there pretty quickly, I figured that if I didn't get it, ID wouldn't have gotten it either.
Click to expand...
I figured the "alone" would make it clear that this meant if they don't also have the power/potency trait. I changed it slightly to hopefully make it more clear.

2.0. version:

Resistance by Higher Levels of Infinity​

As common sense dictates characters which have infinitely higher durability than another character has attack potency are immune to all regular forms of attacks from the weaker character. However, many kinds of durability circumventing hax exist. Whether or not they can affect infinitely stronger characters depends on the kind of hax and the fashion in which the target infinitely transcends the user.

Hax Categories​

For ease of explanation, we sort hax into the following 6 categories. A hax could belong to multiple ones.
  1. Abilities which only circumvent durability to a limited extent: These are abilities which do not function completely independent of the scale of durability. This includes things like pressure point techniques, acupuncture and attacks on internal organs, as all those need to be able to deal at least a tiny amount of damage to produce their effect. Certain more exotic hax can also fall into this category, such as abilities that disintegrate molecules or atoms, as for a character with infinitely stronger durability the bonds between the particles making up their body would also need to be infinitely stronger.
  2. Abilities that need scale and range to work: These are fully durability circumventing abilities whose area of effect needs to cover all or a significant fraction of the character's body to have a lethal effect and, for that purpose, need to be able to target the respective parts of the characters. Examples for that could be Existence Erasure or Transmutation via Reality Warping. Poison also falls into this category, although it has the advantage that when hit the character's physiology might transport through the whole body.
  3. Abilities that just need range to work: These are fully durability circumventing abilities which target things that are not necessarily bound to physical size, such as the non-physical mind or the soul of a character. Note that depending on the fiction these could also be of the same dimension as the character in which case mind and soul manipulation would be of the 2nd Type instead.
  4. Abilities that affect reality, not the target: These are fully durability circumventing abilities like law manipulation or concept manipulation, which affect reality, or part of a reality, as a whole instead of targeting just a character.
  5. Abilities where the target affects themselves: Fully durability circumventing abilities where the target does something to make them affect themself. The most typical example would be Madness Manipulation Type 3, where the act of perceiving the user is what "delivers" the effect to the target. Note that this only applies if there is no supernatural power reaching out (which could be limited by range), but truly just perception itself is what manifests the effect, for example, due to subliminal messages hidden in it.

Transcendence Types​

With the categories of hax clarified, the following list offers guidelines for how the abilities may be assumed to interact with the respective types of infinite transcendence. Note that all of this is under the assumption that the abilities have no particular feats of affecting characters that are qualitatively superior to the user.

Exlusively Statistical​

This could be called the most basic type. The target has Durability that is infinitely higher than the users Attack Potency, but otherwise doesn't transcend them. They have the same dimensionality, there is no layer of Reality-Fiction Transcendence between them and there also otherwise is no further superiority that is of relevance.
  1. Abilities which only circumvent durability to a limited extent: These would usually be assumed not to work, as the infinitely higher durability makes a limited circumvention of durability still meaningless. Even if the attacker only had to deal with a millionth of the character's durability, with the initial difference being infinite that is still beyond the attacker's power. Techniques like pressure points would also be unlikely to be triggered, as actually pushing the point is likely beyond the attacker's strength.
  2. Abilities that need scale and range to work: As the character is scale and range-wise not special those would work, as they would against a character with a finite stat difference.
  3. Abilities that just need range to work: Same as 2.
  4. Abilities that affect reality, not the target: As long as the character exists within the same reality as the attacker these should in principle work as when used against a character with just a finite stat difference.
  5. Abilities where the target affects themselves: As the character has no specific protection against this, they would be affected the same way as when the ability is used against a character with just a finite stat difference.

Higher-Dimensional Existence​

Characters which have higher-dimensional existence i.e. whose body extends through at least one more dimension than the attacker usually operates in. This is strictly in terms of proper mathematical dimensions.

  1. Abilities which only circumvent durability to a limited extent: As those characters also have infinitely higher durability, these would be ineffective for the same reasons as for this with an exclusively statistics-based transcendence. This might not apply to not tiering-applicable dimensions.
  2. Abilities that need scale and range to work: Such abilities would usually have no effect on beings of a higher dimensionality. That is due to such beings simultaneously having an infinitely larger "volume" than the ability's demonstrated area of effect as well as most of the body existing along a dimensional axis the ability has no access to, i.e. beyond the ability's range. It should be noted that one could argue, that a 2-dimensional plane of a 3-dimensional character being erased would bisect them and that analogue effects would happen for higher dimensions. However, it could just as likely just amount to cutting of a strand of hair, instead of down the middle, and no further damage could be dealt. It also would not work if the dimensional difference is more than one, as that would be like erasing an infinitely thin line of a 3-dimensional being. Furthermore, the cut would be infinitely thin, which would arguably mean the body does not actually fall apart, as it is like cutting something with a knife so thin that it misses all the atoms and hence ends up not shifting anything. So unless the fiction clarifies otherwise, even by such a cutting method it is unlikely to cause significant damage.
  3. Abilities that just need range to work: As established, most of the character's body would exist beyond the dimensional axis and hence be beyond the range of the ability. One could now argue that some non-dimensional thing like the mind or soul of the character could happen to still be in the same space as the attacker and hence within range. However, there is no particular reason that would be the case and the mathematical probability of that happening by mere chance is 0%. Hence such abilities should generally not work on higher-dimensional characters.
  4. Abilities that affect reality, not the target: This would be very similar to the 2nd and 3rd case. Most of the character is outside of the abilities area of effect and range, making it next to impossible that it has a significant effect on them. One important difference to note is that any part that enters the reality, and hence the range of the ability, may still be affected. If laws or concepts were altered to erase the higher-dimensional character, them sticking their hand into the altered reality would still erase their hand, somewhat limiting their attack options.
  5. Abilities where the target affects themselves: As long as the ability does not need to contend with the character's scale these should be still effective. A higher-dimensional entity may still be affected by the subliminal messages in a movie it watches, for example. The usual range problem is circumvented by the target's own sensory capabilities leading to them perceiving the threat. It should be noted, however, that such entities sometimes have things like higher-order minds or generally very alien mental structures. These could under certain circumstances interfere with the effectiveness of such abilities.

Reality-Fiction Transcendence​

As an example for how more qualitative transcendence systems may work, we will look at Reality-Fiction Transcendence.

  1. Abilities which only circumvent durability to a limited extent: As the attacker's attacks would appear entirely fictional to the target, they would not be able to deal even the tiny amount of an effect that would be necessary for these to be effective.
  2. Abilities that need scale and range to work: As such characters would typically exist completely outside of the attacker's reality the abilities are unlikely to reach them and even if they did, they would only be registered as fictional and hence incapable of having a real effect.
  3. Abilities that just need range to work: Same as 2.
  4. Abilities that affect reality, not the target: These abilities would be incapable of effecting their target, as it would be outside of their range and the change itself would arguably be one fictional to them, possibly not even affecting their access to the reality. An exception would be if they enter the fictional reality by means that turn themselves fictional for that period. In such a case, they would be considered to be possible to be affected, if there are no feats or statements of the opposite.
  5. Abilities where the target affects themselves: Things like subliminal messages or social influencing may still be effective against such characters. While a movie with subliminal messages might be fictional to such a character, so was it to the original viewer. It being less real has no actual influence on whether the comprehension of the subject matter has an effect on the target. Another example could be if there, for example, is a reality-fiction difference between the attacker and target, in which the lower plane of reality is analogous to a virtual reality game and the target enters that game by transferring their consciousness into it. By bringing their consciousness to the level of the game, they essentially expose themselves to mind attacks, as they made the game "real" to themselves in that way.

Others​

Several other kinds of transcendence exist in fiction. The exact way hax would interact with these types would need to be analyzed case-by-case. The arguments presented for the three types above can be used as a reference for which arguments may apply to such other types. Many cases will, for example, have targets exist in some other space than the people using the ability, in which case the abilities likely wouldn't work without feats of reaching that other space.

Smurf Abilities​

A fan term that originated in MMORPG communities where a player restarts their game and is matched against newbies after having years of experience and resources. However, in the vs-community, it has come to instead refer to characters who possess abilities capable of harming characters who are in durability qualitatively superior to them by means which should be impossible for regular abilities. I.e. they possess abilities which in themself can, at least in some aspect, be considered qualitatively superior to their regular counterpart.
Due to that, they can often circumvent certain defences against the abilities, although this depends on in which aspect the ability can be considered qualitatively superior.
The two big aspects to differentiate between are power/potency and range/area of Effect.

Power / Potency​

Abilities that in terms of pure power are qualitatively superior to the physical stats of the character, e.g. a physically Tier 7 character capable of casting a Tier 1-A fireball, or hax which has potency qualitatively superior to the baseline potency, e.g. soul hax which can affect a character that sees them as mere fiction.

The typical way for an ability to be proven as being smurf in the aspect is it having showings or statements of being able to affect a character, which it shouldn't due to them transcending them in a way that it would require such a higher potency to affect them. A typical example would be affecting characters which see them as mere fiction. See "Resistance by Higher Levels of Infinity" for some examples of reasoning for why characters with certain transcendence resist certain things.

It's important to separate the case of Power or Potency from the case of Range or Area of Effect. A higher-dimensional character might be immune to regular mind manipulation due to being outside its range, but not due to their mind being fundamentally infinitely harder to affect. Of course, exceptions may apply if there are statements or feats of the opposite.

Another way an ability can be shown to have smurf potency / power is if it significantly affects a structure of qualitatively superior size. E.g. existence erasure which can affect a (tiering-applicable) higher-dimensional structure or character would qualify. Note that if the ability can't have its potency focused on a small object, it's not necessarily considered to have smurf power / potency.

Lastly, if it overcomes a resistance which is known to operate on a qualitatively superior level it would also be considered smurf.

The main advantage of an ability being considered smurf in power / potency is that it is assumed to be able to overpower all resistances that don't have feats or statements of being able to perform on an equal or superior level. That in practice means that, for example, a 3D character that has abilities with Low 1-C smurf potency would be able to overcome all the regular Tier 2 or lower resistances as if they weren't there.

Range / Area of Effect​

Abilities which can in terms of range or area of effect reach structures outside of the reality the character itself exists in. An example would be a regular human, which can attack points in different universes, or a character that is physically Tier 2, but can erase 16-dimensional structures.

The importance of smurf range and area of effect is that without it many entities with certain kinds of transcendence ove rthe user can not be significantly harmed. A target with Reality-Fiction Transcendence may for example exist beyond the book in which the user's reality is contained. And even if a character had enough brute strength to kill a higher-dimensional character, they may not be able to do so in practice if they can't project their strength to a more then 3-dimensional area of effect, as they then can't affect a significant portion of the target's body. See "Resistance by Higher Levels of Infinity" for further details.

It is important to note that, contrary to abilities that (additionally or exclusively) have smurf power or potency, abilities with smurf range or area of effect alone do not necessarily bypass all regular resistance on the level of the user.
Click to expand...
 
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Sorry to only bring this up now, but the note you added about focusing has some grammar issues. I'd suggest changing it from:
Note that if the ability can't be focussed its potency on a small object is not necessarily smurf in terms of power/potency.
Click to expand...
To
Note that if the ability can't have its potency focused on a small object, it's not necessarily considered to have smurf power / potency.
Click to expand...
Otherwise, assuming you didn't sneak in edits to other sections, it seems good.
 
The draft looks alright after skimming it. A small question, would a series where souls scale in size to one's body thus also qualify for smurf hax via affecting a higher-dimensional being there? Same goes for mind, concept or any other usually unsized aspect of a being.
 
Planck69 said:
The draft looks alright after skimming it. A small question, would a series where souls scale in size to one's body thus also qualify for smurf hax via affecting a higher-dimensional being there? Same goes for mind, concept or any other usually unsized aspect of a being.
Click to expand...
Yes, having evidence like that can make things fall in a different category from the default assumption.
 
Agnaa said:
Yes, having evidence like that can make things fall in a different category from the default assumption.
Click to expand...
Thanks. One more question, how would this work with Universal Energy Systems?

Say, mana in a setting is innately a power that can create, destroy and affect 5-dimensional beings and is used for other hax. Would it just have smurf potency for powers like Reality Warping and Space-time Manipulation or all aspects of it?
 
I'd expect that abilities with smurf power/potency would scale through an accepted UES. But range/AoE seems too dependent on specific abilities to scale like that.

EDIT: But I think this would also depend on whether those other abilities would be accepted as having smurf/power potency if they worked on the same targets.
 
Last edited:
Agnaa said:
I'd expect that abilities with smurf power/potency would scale through an accepted UES. But range/AoE seems too dependent on specific abilities to scale like that.
Click to expand...
Oh I agree that range is a character or power specific aspect. I was more so referring strictly to potency.
Agnaa said:
EDIT: But I think this would also depend on whether those other abilities would be accepted as having smurf/power potency if they worked on the same targets.
Click to expand...
Like, a demonstration of working on higher-dimensional beings or being implied to do so?


Either way, thanks for the clarification.
 
Planck69 said:
Like, a demonstration of working on higher-dimensional beings or being implied to do so?

Either way, thanks for the clarification.
Click to expand...
No. I mean that it'd be a bit weird if you considered, say, physics manipulation to have smurf potency, because it's from the same UES which can EE a living multiverse, and focus that on a smaller being to annihilate them. Since just using physics manipulation on that living multiverse wouldn't count for smurf potency.

Ideally the ability which is getting smurf potency, would have itself gotten smurf potency if the story was different, and that ability was directly used on the higher-tiered being that the UES is scaling from. I think you get weird situations otherwise.
 
Planck69 said:
Thanks. One more question, how would this work with Universal Energy Systems?

Say, mana in a setting is innately a power that can create, destroy and affect 5-dimensional beings and is used for other hax. Would it just have smurf potency for powers like Reality Warping and Space-time Manipulation or all aspects of it?
Click to expand...
If the hax uses an equal or greater amount of energy than what affects 5D beings in a tiering applicable way, then for similar hax at least. In terms of potency.
Might be hard to make a relation between concept manip and space cutting or something. Depends a bit on how the mechanics work and stuff, I suppose.

Edit to explain a bit better: We had in the past threads about how a Tier 1 character using a copy of Tier 3 hax, wouldn't make the hax automatically Tier 1. Because the hax which they copied by nature wasn't really designed to be smurf. Generally, just pumping more energy into hax isn't considered to raise its potency. Like, stupid example, if you use that mana in your example to create poison... how does the power of the mana relate to the potency of the poison?
Hence scaling hax potency by UES needs a detailed look at the mechanics and stuff.
Theglassman12 said:
Quick question, the whole “focus on a small object” thing for smurf hax, is that just in relation to layers/potency of the hax or it just qualifying as smurf hax in general?
Click to expand...
If you affect, say, a 5D realm with hax but can't focus it (or otherwise scale to it via, say, an UES), you would still have smurf range. So it would still be smurf, but not in potency.

Agnaa said:
Sorry to only bring this up now, but the note you added about focusing has some grammar issues. I'd suggest changing it from:

To

Otherwise, assuming you didn't sneak in edits to other sections, it seems good.
Click to expand...
Changed it.
 
Last edited:
DontTalkDT said:
If the hax uses an equal or greater amount of energy than what affects 5D beings in a tiering applicable way, then for similar hax at least. In terms of potency.
Might be hard to make a relation between concept manip and space cutting or something. Depends a bit on how the mechanics work and stuff, I suppose.

Edit to explain a bit better: We had in the past threads about how a Tier 1 character using a copy of Tier 3 hax, wouldn't make the hax automatically Tier 1. Because the hax which they copied by nature wasn't really designed to be smurf. Generally, just pumping more energy into hax isn't considered to raise its potency. Like, stupid example, if you use that mana in your example to create poison... how does the power of the mana relate to the potency of the poison?
Hence scaling hax potency by UES needs a detailed look at the mechanics and stuff.
Click to expand...
I see. Thanks for the clarification.
 
The only thing left to do here is where to replace it, either page creation (which I can do it if I get “Ok” from @DontTalkDT) or resistances or tiering system FAQ.
 
I also think that DontTalk's draft can be applied now.

Is some staff member here (or Dread) willing to handle it please?
 
I can handle it, but would you ping @DontTalkDT for this inquiry:
ImmortalDread said:
The only thing left to do here is where to replace it, either page creation (which I can do it if I get “Ok” from @DontTalkDT) or resistances or tiering system FAQ.
Click to expand...

DT is confused on which section we should replace, I offered a new page, and I can do it anytime, given I already created an adjusted page from DT's suggestions.
 
ImmortalDread said:
I can handle it, but would you ping @DontTalkDT for this inquiry:


DT is confused on which section we should replace, I offered a new page, and I can do it anytime, given I already created an adjusted page from DT's suggestions.
Click to expand...
Well, in lack of any input on where to put it, how about we put the section about smurf hax on the hax page and the section of resistance by higher D equivalent stuff on the resistance page? Just need to insert links then so that the sections reference each other that way.

Just don't know what I would even call a page where we put both, so splitting them up might be best.



The following section of the hax page could just be deleted when the new section is added, I think?
Higher-Dimensional characters/structures are automatically immune to 3-Dimensional (or lower) hax, as they literally are infinitely more complex than them. The same logically happens to higher-dimensional hax in relation to even higher higher-dimensional characters/structures. Resistances also apply to higher-dimensional characters/structures, this needs to be hax of their same (or higher) dimensionality, and anything lower is not allowed to be added (due to being both inaccurate and misleading, making others think that the characters/structures can resist hax of their same dimensionality).
Click to expand...
 
I am simply not sure. It only would work if we simply sync both pages, then I would agree. But spitting them without give any type of connection would lead to many confusions between members.

Is the issue really here regarding the name of the page? Since it is a bit insignificant; let's be clear; you agree with the concept of “having page”, but you are confused as you would call it?
 
Not sure what you mean by "sync both pages"?

Ultimately it's probably not too important where to put it.
It's just that it's two related yet separate topics and we of course want to put it where people will find it. So a good title is useful, if we do not put it on the related main pages. But I guess we can just as well just make a separate page and link it from the resistance and hax page.

If you prefer a page, that's fine with me. But again, which name do you suggest?
 
Smurf is too informal of a term and can easily mislead to a certain verse the name is partially based on
"Interaction Between Qualitative Superiorities and Hax" may be a better title, even if a bit long.
 
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