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I am not knowledgeable in SMT, but i know a bit about tier 1, and this would probably be tier 1 hax that wouldn't scale to their ap.
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SMT Upgrades Part 1: Low 1-C Boost to infinity and beyond
- Thread starter Yvel_Atsly
- Start date
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- shin megami tensei
- 198
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Ye lets inflate an entire space to Low 1C based on a random single side quest quote from Stephen that he never explained the meaning of. Cuz ofc you suddendly go one level of infinity higher just like that.
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The Devas Feat is literally stopping the "Human World" (In the context of the charitably meaning Earth, most generously the Universe) from being absorbed into the Demon World.
It doesn't literally mean they split the entire multiverse and the Expanse, WHICH ITSELF WAS ONLY ESTABLISHED AFTER THIS GAME, literally. The Vortex World explicitly merges the "Human World and the Demon World" together and its the size of Tokyo, for example.
It doesn't literally mean they split the entire multiverse and the Expanse, WHICH ITSELF WAS ONLY ESTABLISHED AFTER THIS GAME, literally. The Vortex World explicitly merges the "Human World and the Demon World" together and its the size of Tokyo, for example.
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Also...
Satan in SMT II literally needed a superweapon that he doesn't scale to to destroy the Demon World. I don't think bringing him up helps your argument.
- 742
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- Thread starter
- #87
He scales above the Kuzuryu who already scales above it anyways. And i never argued they could destroy it
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- Thread starter
- #88
The Expanse has been established as the world of demons long before Devil Survivor. Plus the whole series is built on scaling everything to each other so that point is irrelevant anyways
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Does he really? Kuzuryu in a weakened state with only one head is nigh-uncontrollable and far stronger than Lucifer. Just because you can get to fight Satan later in some routes doesn't mean Satan is stronger, you can actually fight him earlier as well or not fight him at all.
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- #90
He literally said it's a place, specfically referring to one that transcends past present and future of space and time. It's simple
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SMT IV is the first time it's established to be multiversal in scale, so prior mentions need further context for one to assume they are speaking of the entire demon world.
And you just ignored my other argument where I demonstrated a blatant example where "merging the worlds" isn't Low 1-C like you claim it is.
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You can literally get this with Low 2-C dude actually.
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- Thread starter
- #93
Yes but Stephen means past present and future across the multiverse it's above all past, present and futures, and when did you bring up "world merging"?
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Here. The Vortex World from Nocturne explicitly fuses the Human World and the Demon World into one. Do you think it's multiversal in scale when it happens separately in each universe? This shows that it doesn't necessarily apply to a full scale despite the wording.
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- #95
Again. The Expanse is already a purely higher dimensional space which is higher dimenisional manipulation of course on the scale of whatever dimension size the structure is. I've explained this to you before
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@Elizhaa @TISSG7Redgrave @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Dragonmasterxyz @Ultima_Reality @The_real_cal_howard @Super_Saiyan_God_Julian
Are you willing to give input here please? We seem to have an inconclusive situation.
Are you willing to give input here please? We seem to have an inconclusive situation.
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Irrelevant. We don't scale stuff like this to the higher one. If you're preventing it from reaching only a planet than it should be planet level.
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- #98
The Expanse is literally higher d. Which takes higher d power to stop. And we both know fiction dosen't always take area of effect into account alongside destructive power
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Irrelevant. And no it doesn't because Dimensional Tiering is fake. Go back to 2017.
What does that have to do with anything? I am literally talking about a merging of the Human World and Demon World that is the size of a city, hence it's not whatever Tier 1 nonsense you claim it is.
You can't get Tier 1 from destroying a planet.
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- #100
How many times are you gonna say that joke line?
- 742
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- #102
And the Expanse is said to transcend a dimensional level. So thanks but this stuff i've already heard
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Doesn't make it Low 1-C. It's just saying it exists outside of the concept of time, that's it. That's standard stuff.
And even if it is if the "merging" only happens on a universal scale it's a Low 2-C feat.
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That wouldn't matter in the argument he is making because the feat he wants to scale everyone from is only Low 2-C at best.
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See? We need proof of the Expanse being infinitely superior to the multiverse. I don't believe that single statement from a SMT 4 side quest is enought to inflate the Expanse to Low 1C
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And as Matthew showed, the Devas feat is only Low 2C If we are being generous. There isn't even a mention of multiverse in DeSu, don't know where people get that from.
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- Thread starter
- #108
SMT has been the 2-A of 2-A verses a long time. I don't get where you all keep saying Low 2-C from. And it said beyond the scope/limits of time. Not outside. Do i need to keep explaining everything
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This is literally meaningless. You're just saying that "People have the misconception that it is the strongest 2-A in this particular forum on the internet" as if that means something. It doesn't. It's just hype.
Most of the impressive feats on the series are on a Low 2-C or charitably 2-C scale. The stuff that affects the entire multiverse or the entire demon world can literally be counted in one's two hands.
Those two are literally the same thing. "Beyond the scope" and "outside" are practically synonyms.
Evidently we have to explain it to you because you are not making much sense.
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- #110
I mean a 2-A verse isn't just Low 2-C. And "beyond the limits and beyond the scope of" and "outside" of something are quite different. And Matt i literally had to explain to you profile scaling that you could've checked for yourself but whatever. And infinite statements and stuff are nice but that explicit wording isn't required as transcending the limits of the multiverse is a qualitive superiority cause it's beyond the limit of any 4-D space. As a transcendant/higher plane is a way to represent a higher dimensional space in fiction
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I don't believe anyone here said SMT is just Low 2C, we are talking about a particular Deva feat you are using that is just Low 2C in scope and nature. They just sustained a barrier that stopped the fusion of the Demon World and the Human World, and neither were portrayed in a multiversal scale in DeSu.
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- #112
The Expanse currently has 2-As as smaller part of it. This is what i mean. Stop saying that. Low 2-C is a lowball. Is there any to lock this board until more people come or something? @Ant
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In DeSu it wasn't portrayed as multiversal, I'm not lowballing, I'm indeed highballing. After the barrier created by th Devas disappears the Demon World was only swallowing a single universe overtime.
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- #114
And the structure is multiversal so the area of effect is irrelevant. As i've explained to Matt before. You should try addressing that
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It was already stopping the fusion of the Demon World and the Human World isn't necessarily multiversal as showcased in the Vortex World example. You are the one who needs to adress that and bring evidence than in DeSu the feat was portrayed as multiversal and was affecting the entire structure, and not universal like it was portrayed to be.
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- #116
No. You need to address how stopping a multiversal structure somehow dosen't make the feat multiversal
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What's the evidence that the Demon World in this exact context is the entire multiverse? Assuming it is so, requires pretty huge assumptions that are not correlated in the statements used in the quote.
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- #118
Hrm? You misunderstand what i mean. I'm not saying the demon world is the human world but pointing it's a multiversal construct
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That's irrelevant. In the scene itself nothing indicates it's the entire scale, just one that applies to consuming the "Human World". Which as per the context of the game is either just Earth or at most the universe. And most likely the former really.
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Are you seriously trying to lock the thread because people don't agree with you?
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