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SMT Upgrades Part 1: Low 1-C Boost to infinity and beyond

They're feat is stopping the realm from passively absorbing and enchroaching the world which is sustained by their own power, and the fact their barrier is enough to not get swallowed by it shows they scale to the structure to some extent
I am not knowledgeable in SMT, but i know a bit about tier 1, and this would probably be tier 1 hax that wouldn't scale to their ap.
 
So what are the summarised general conclusions here?
 
Ye lets inflate an entire space to Low 1C based on a random single side quest quote from Stephen that he never explained the meaning of. Cuz ofc you suddendly go one level of infinity higher just like that.
 
That may be a good point.
 
The Devas Feat is literally stopping the "Human World" (In the context of the charitably meaning Earth, most generously the Universe) from being absorbed into the Demon World.

It doesn't literally mean they split the entire multiverse and the Expanse, WHICH ITSELF WAS ONLY ESTABLISHED AFTER THIS GAME, literally. The Vortex World explicitly merges the "Human World and the Demon World" together and its the size of Tokyo, for example.
 
Also...


Satan in SMT II literally needed a superweapon that he doesn't scale to to destroy the Demon World. I don't think bringing him up helps your argument.
He scales above the Kuzuryu who already scales above it anyways. And i never argued they could destroy it
 
The Devas Feat is literally stopping the "Human World" (In the context of the charitably meaning Earth, most generously the Universe) from being absorbed into the Demon World.

It doesn't literally mean they split the entire multiverse and the Expanse, WHICH ITSELF WAS ONLY ESTABLISHED AFTER THIS GAME, literally. The Vortex World explicitly merges the "Human World and the Demon World" together and its the size of Tokyo, for example.
The Expanse has been established as the world of demons long before Devil Survivor. Plus the whole series is built on scaling everything to each other so that point is irrelevant anyways
 
He scales above the Kuzuryu who already scales above it anyways. And i never argued they could destroy it
Does he really? Kuzuryu in a weakened state with only one head is nigh-uncontrollable and far stronger than Lucifer. Just because you can get to fight Satan later in some routes doesn't mean Satan is stronger, you can actually fight him earlier as well or not fight him at all.
 
Ye lets inflate an entire space to Low 1C based on a random single side quest quote from Stephen that he never explained the meaning of. Cuz ofc you suddendly go one level of infinity higher just like that.
He literally said it's a place, specfically referring to one that transcends past present and future of space and time. It's simple
 
The Expanse has been established as the world of demons long before Devil Survivor. Plus the whole series is built on scaling everything to each other so that point is irrelevant anyways
SMT IV is the first time it's established to be multiversal in scale, so prior mentions need further context for one to assume they are speaking of the entire demon world.

And you just ignored my other argument where I demonstrated a blatant example where "merging the worlds" isn't Low 1-C like you claim it is.
 
The Vortex World explicitly merges the "Human World and the Demon World" together and its the size of Tokyo, for example.
Here. The Vortex World from Nocturne explicitly fuses the Human World and the Demon World into one. Do you think it's multiversal in scale when it happens separately in each universe? This shows that it doesn't necessarily apply to a full scale despite the wording.
 
Again. The Expanse is already a purely higher dimensional space which is higher dimenisional manipulation of course on the scale of whatever dimension size the structure is. I've explained this to you before
 
Again. The Expanse is already a purely higher dimensional space which is higher dimenisional manipulation of course on the scale of whatever dimension size the structure is. I've explained this to you before
Irrelevant. We don't scale stuff like this to the higher one. If you're preventing it from reaching only a planet than it should be planet level.
 
Irrelevant. We don't scale stuff like this to the higher one. If you're preventing it from reaching only a planet than it should be planet level.
The Expanse is literally higher d. Which takes higher d power to stop. And we both know fiction dosen't always take area of effect into account alongside destructive power
 
The Expanse is literally higher d. Which takes higher d power to stop
Irrelevant. And no it doesn't because Dimensional Tiering is fake. Go back to 2017.

fiction dosen't always take area of effect into account alongside destructive power

What does that have to do with anything? I am literally talking about a merging of the Human World and Demon World that is the size of a city, hence it's not whatever Tier 1 nonsense you claim it is.

You can't get Tier 1 from destroying a planet.
 
Yes,all we need is a qualitative comparison to the multiverse
Viewing it as fiction or viewing it as spatially flat or viewing it as a particle anything works
 
And the Expanse is said to transcend a dimensional level. So thanks but this stuff i've already heard
Doesn't make it Low 1-C. It's just saying it exists outside of the concept of time, that's it. That's standard stuff.

And even if it is if the "merging" only happens on a universal scale it's a Low 2-C feat.
 
See? We need proof of the Expanse being infinitely superior to the multiverse. I don't believe that single statement from a SMT 4 side quest is enought to inflate the Expanse to Low 1C
 
And as Matthew showed, the Devas feat is only Low 2C If we are being generous. There isn't even a mention of multiverse in DeSu, don't know where people get that from.
 
SMT has been the 2-A of 2-A verses a long time. I don't get where you all keep saying Low 2-C from. And it said beyond the scope/limits of time. Not outside. Do i need to keep explaining everything
 
SMT has been the 2-A of 2-A verses a long time
This is literally meaningless. You're just saying that "People have the misconception that it is the strongest 2-A in this particular forum on the internet" as if that means something. It doesn't. It's just hype.

I don't get where you all keep saying Low 2-C from.
Most of the impressive feats on the series are on a Low 2-C or charitably 2-C scale. The stuff that affects the entire multiverse or the entire demon world can literally be counted in one's two hands.

And it said beyond the scope/limits of time. Not outside.
Those two are literally the same thing. "Beyond the scope" and "outside" are practically synonyms.

Do i need to keep explaining everything
Evidently we have to explain it to you because you are not making much sense.
 
I mean a 2-A verse isn't just Low 2-C. And "beyond the limits and beyond the scope of" and "outside" of something are quite different. And Matt i literally had to explain to you profile scaling that you could've checked for yourself but whatever. And infinite statements and stuff are nice but that explicit wording isn't required as transcending the limits of the multiverse is a qualitive superiority cause it's beyond the limit of any 4-D space. As a transcendant/higher plane is a way to represent a higher dimensional space in fiction
 
I don't believe anyone here said SMT is just Low 2C, we are talking about a particular Deva feat you are using that is just Low 2C in scope and nature. They just sustained a barrier that stopped the fusion of the Demon World and the Human World, and neither were portrayed in a multiversal scale in DeSu.
 
The Expanse currently has 2-As as smaller part of it. This is what i mean. Stop saying that. Low 2-C is a lowball. Is there any to lock this board until more people come or something? @Ant
 
The Expanse currently has 2-As as smaller part of it. This is what i mean. Stop saying that's Low 2-C is a lowball. Is there any to lock this board until more people come or something? @Ant
In DeSu it wasn't portrayed as multiversal, I'm not lowballing, I'm indeed highballing. After the barrier created by th Devas disappears the Demon World was only swallowing a single universe overtime.
 
And the structure is multiversal so the area of effect is irrelevant. As i've explained to Matt before. You should try addressing that
 
And the structure is multiversal so the area of effect is irrelevant. As i've explained to Matt before. You should try addressing that
It was already stopping the fusion of the Demon World and the Human World isn't necessarily multiversal as showcased in the Vortex World example. You are the one who needs to adress that and bring evidence than in DeSu the feat was portrayed as multiversal and was affecting the entire structure, and not universal like it was portrayed to be.
 
What's the evidence that the Demon World in this exact context is the entire multiverse? Assuming it is so, requires pretty huge assumptions that are not correlated in the statements used in the quote.
 
Hrm? You misunderstand what i mean. I'm not saying the demon world is the human world but pointing it's a multiversal construct
 
Hrm? You misunderstand what i mean. I'm not saying the demon world is the human world but pointing it's a multiversal construct
That's irrelevant. In the scene itself nothing indicates it's the entire scale, just one that applies to consuming the "Human World". Which as per the context of the game is either just Earth or at most the universe. And most likely the former really.
 
The Expanse currently has 2-As as smaller part of it. This is what i mean. Stop saying that. Low 2-C is a lowball. Is there any to lock this board until more people come or something? @Ant
Are you seriously trying to lock the thread because people don't agree with you?
 
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