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SMT Revisions 3.0

Their "interaction" with said 2-A characters (The Protagonists I assume) can be mostly boiled down to Game Mechanics, again, the Bosses fighting against the Protagonists isn't a feat, and it can cause giant contradictions in the powerscalling
 
Zeus would be comparable to Odin, Also, Belial i dont thing he es above Universal level as he es one of the generals of Lucifer IIRC.

Mot and Anat would be like Baal level?
 
I saw that before, but for my is not a real feat like Lore or in-game, for mi its like some bullshit covers like Saitama make a hole in a planet or the Lucifer "inifnite probabilities (Like Shiori for example)/omnipresent"...
 
Nedge1000 said:
Also, this looks to from a Shimegami Tensei Poster
https://imgur.com/WF5rR35
Click to expand...
Fairly sure that's just promotional art, and shouldn't be counted as canon:

Belial is just on the same league as Baalzebub: him fighting someone who is massively superior to Kagutsuchi would be an outlier for sure.

Besides, similar fights that wouldn't be possible because of power scaling can happen in poster art, like some cases in Godzilla.
 
Simply being one of Lucifer's commanders isn't enough to warrant 2-A though, especially if it is through scalling from Beelzebub, who is explicitly said to be the most powerful Fallen Angel and Lucifer's strongest servant.
 
Speaking of Lilith, she was 2-A before we started upgrading other demons to 2-A, and she was even rated as such in Ultima's blog (if I remember correctly), but yet Matt still downgraded her to 2-C.

Which is the most correct tier?
 
I think then Lucifer's commanders should scale to Astaroth, Surt, and Arioch would have to be 2-A in order to counter the Archangels in the Cathedral.
 
@DMB

I think 2-C is the safest option after some discussions I had with Matt, since her being 2-A was mostly based on in-game levels and thus wasn't the most reliable way to rate her.
 
Lilith being 2-C seems fair, though I would have liked it if this were disclosed in the Revision Thread beforehand.
 
I figure out Lilith's 2-A justification was level scaling after Matt's change. I still would have appreciated if Matt added his reasoning in the Edit Summary Box.

Lilith could still be 2-A scaling from to Lucifer's strongest like Astaroth
 
Wasn't Lilith concidered Gabirel's equal during SMT4? Both of them can fight each other regardless of the path Flynn took, plus wouldn't Lilith be at least comparable to Ouroboros Maia?
 
Also, Lilith is one of the strongest Night and pagan Demonrace demon only below to Maya and ins a real treat even in late games
 
Level/Race scaling is best not used because many tend to fail in different feats range. Ex: Morax (Shin Megami Tensei) is Low 2-C and is level 12 in SMT IV Apocalypse while other higher level demons might have Tier 6 or 8 feats.

Boss order tends to be not the choice either from Protagonists as some feats will be an outlier for some demons.

The best scaling would for 2-A, in the case of Lilith is if she is view as comparable or interacted to 2-A or higher the Archangels or others 2-A by story feat.

Also, while not perfect for scaling, the game lore tends clarified up some of these interaction relationships
 
Well if this is going to be what's happening then I guess all the Archangels will need to be downgraded too since they are all scalled to Lilith, at least that's what their profiles say.

Next would be Ishtar since I highly doubt she's stronger then Lilith.
 
Aren't the Archangels also classed as Seraphs in some of the games? So even if they're not superior they should at least be comparable.
 
It is best not to use races for scaling because races tends to change in many games. Lorewise, Archangels are more powerful than Seraphs. Likewise, Archangels should be more powerful than Ouroboros Maia
 
So what you are saying is that Lilith is below Maia? Which is weird since none of the games ever treat her as anything special beyond being comparable to Tiamat and Maya.
 
I am still saying Lilith and Lucifer's strongest allies or commanders would be 2-A for the reasoning that I posted above Today.

I want the scaling to more accurate by using characters like Ouroboros Maia for their 2-A feat:
 
So, in the Archangel's profiles, if no disagreements, I will switch the Lilith for Ouroboros Maia and remove the comparable part as they are more powerful lore wise.
 
Fair enough, It's quite difficult to find proper feats for scaling when it come to big shots like Lucy's Commanders and generals since most of them comes from interacting the Player rather then interacting with another character.

If we can't find a good feat for Lilith would Probably 2-A work? There's no way she's completly infirior to any of the Cardinal Angels to that degree, add to the fact that she's usually depicted as a powerful general under Lucy.
 
In case, this should also be on the Archangels profile:

Stronger than the Four Devas, whose combined power created a barrier which separated the Human World from the Demon World, with their deaths allowing both realities to unite into One.
 
Regarding Loki, wasnt part of the plot of Devil Survivor that the protagonist was getting stronger each time he defeated one of contenders of the throne of bel? Like I get not wanting to use boss order, but Loki should at least scale to Belial,
 
Ercosore said:
Regarding Loki, wasnt part of the plot of Devil Survivor that the protagonist was getting stronger each time he defeated one of contenders of the throne of bel? Like I get not wanting to use boss order, but Loki should at least scale to Belial,
Click to expand...
Yeah, in the manga he was capable of casually killing all four Devas.
 
Speaking of Devil Survivor, should the other characters from the first game get profiles? The second game has profiles for the entire main cast, whereas the first has only Abel. I feel like people like Naoya, Atsuro, Yuzu as well as some of the demons, like Belberith and Babel should get profiles.
 
Abel is also missing his other tier when he is weaker like 2-A from defeating the Four DEvas.

I agree with the profile creations.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Ercosore said:
Regarding Loki, wasnt part of the plot of Devil Survivor that the protagonist was getting stronger each time he defeated one of contenders of the throne of bel? Like I get not wanting to use boss order, but Loki should at least scale to Belial,
Click to expand...
Yeah, in the manga he was capable of casually killing all four Devas.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link because we could get Tier 2-A Loki?
 
I mean, if there really aren't any contradictions in the manga, then sure, but generally these sorts of things are considered non canon unless explicitly stated to be canon, aren't they?
 
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