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SMT Revisions 3.0

I'm not sure how much I agree with crossscaling, personally. Gods could mean something like SMT's gods, but it could also mean Persona's gods (such as Izanami or Yaldabaoth).
 
Jaakuace44 said:
I'm not sure how much I agree with crossscaling, personally. Gods could mean something like SMT's gods, but it could also mean Persona's gods (such as Izanami or Yaldabaoth).
Click to expand...
Persona is a weird situation.

In all the other SMT like Devil Survivor, the demons scaled properly.
 
Ishtar, Astaroth, and Nergal are the only recognizable figures. Most other demons or gods are a no-show in Catherine, so we really don't have as much to go off of as we do with Devil Survivor. Do we have any evidence that Ishtar in Catherine scales to her SMT counterpart?
 
Also, During the Catherine Good Ending, Nergal is shown to have both horns fully intact. At the end of the Catherine True Ending, a large portion of his right horn is broken off. This may suggest a physical struggle between Nergal and Vincent as Vincent ascends to become King of the Underworld.

https://catherine.wikia.com/wiki/Nergal
 
Shouldn't Baal be At least 2-A, likely High 2-A?

In SMT IV Apo., he is non-optional in the Cosmic Egg way after Nanashi is At least 2-A, likely High 2-A.

Also, his justification:

Multiverse level+ (Far stronger than Beelzebub and Bael, being only able to be fully Resurrected by the fusion between the two Demons, as they are Demonized aspects of himself who were split from him upon the bastardization of his image as a deity. Immensely above Asura in his True Form as Ahura Mazda, as Baal's Avatar was comparable in might to the likes of Ahriman and superior to Noah and the Three Cardinal Archangels)
 
I figure the chain for BeelzeBaal would

Baal > Beelzebub >=(?) Baal Avatar

Or... something like that. Baal Avatar might need its own key or a different profile entirely.

But yeah, as long as it isn't a total stomp, Baal could be that tier.
 
Jaakuace44 said:
I figure the chain for BeelzeBaal would
Baal > Beelzebub >=(?) Baal Avatar

Or... something like that. Baal Avatar might need its own key or a different profile entirely.

But yeah, as long as it isn't a total stomp, Baal could be that tier.
Click to expand...
Beelzebub and Baal Avatar are lesser avatars
 
Baal shouldn't scale from Lucifer whatsoever, no. Especially since Beelzebub's dialogue implies that he couldn't return to his original form as long as the Demon Lord existed, and it would be a massive outlier for Baal anyways.

I say this for the 11th time: Boss Order isn't always the best way to quantify SMT, it doesn't matter if the bosses in question are non-optional or not
 
I see you updated Nakajima and Yumiko's pages. I should let you know Lucifer is listed as possibly High 2-A, not likely High 2-A.
 
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) and Brahman (Shin Megami Tensei)'s Tier?

Serph's justification: Multiverse level+ (Defeated the Hindu Trimurti, Sata, and fought a copy of the Demi-Fiend)

Brahman and Satan are High 2-A.

Also, Brahman is not more powerful than Satan: High Multiverse level (Brahman is the Supreme Deity of the Digital Devil Saga Multiverse, existing as the all-pervading Divine Identity which is one with all things, and holds them as parts of itself, while simultaneously being the source of all existence, as the "Data" which comprises everything in the most fundamental level is directly derived from it, and eventually returns to it in an eternal cycle of metempsychosis, with even beings such as Sata being vastly inferior to it and capable of being effortlessly replicated and reabsorbed in the form of Solar Data. As such, it should be on the same general league as YHVH, given the similar nature shared by both of them

Quick Question, does anyone know the chronological order for so I could make a proper key? Also, are these all these fights optional and which are non-optionals?
 
Satan is optional, Brahman is not. The former is clearly in his High 2-A form.

Serph's page has been outdated for a while. I agree with the High 2-A rating, personally.
 
Try to use Lore (Demon Compendium and real life lore to some degree), next the In-Game Lore/Plot/history, then analize case by case (like If one in X moment or game had a PU, then it must be explained in detail why, even if that PU is already from that point onwards of the games) and final decide which would be the feats of the characters, who would escalate from whom, sometimes the Boss order as the level of the demons is changing from game to game (look at the levels of parvati in each game as an example).
 
Extreme123dz said:
Try to use Lore (Demon Compendium and real life lore to some degree), next the In-Game Lore/Plot/history, then analize case by case (like If one in X moment or game had a PU, then it must be explained in detail why, even if that PU is already from that point onwards of the games) and final decide which would be the feats of the characters, who would escalate from whom, sometimes the Boss order as the level of the demons is changing from game to game (look at the levels of parvati in each game as an example).
Click to expand...
We pretty much do these already
 
I believe that a user was making a blog for a potential Black Frost profile a while ago, but that user is currently blocked.

Should I link it to you to check if it's okay, or if the hypothetical Black Frost profile would have to be more accurate?

Also, that user made a calc on Sandalpho's size in a game, but it has never really been accepted though.
 
I think I will updated:Serph with the blogs. I will just added another key for the end games against Brahman.

I will removed the Satan's justification Brahman's profile as it is innacurated since the fight was optional.
 
I believe that this blog is based on Black Frost's appearance in the DeSu series.

Also, if you want to make a profile for him, I'll get a better picture and render it for you.
 
YHVH first key is At least High 2-A. I don't think that he is the same league. At best, Brahman's justifcation would be like Canopus.
 
Shouldn't Seraph (Who is basically the fusion of Sera and Serph in Digital Devil Saga) be another profile entirely? Since they were the one who fought against Brahman and Satan in the Sun, and are treated as a separate character as far as I remember.

I also don't think Serph has the Abstract shenanigans full-blown Demons have, since the Demon Transformations are just that: Transformations, and he most certainly doesn't transform into the real thing.
 
Comparable in that they serve the same role.

I don't honestly think the writers would have put that in if they didn't really mean it. Optional boss or not, they explicitly wrote that Brahman and YHVH play the same role in their respective realities.

Edit: Also, I never said it was non-canon, just optional. Don't put words in my mouth.
 
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