Smash Upgrade (No, not tier 2)

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not tier 2 shiz. Like, tier 6 at best.

Just watching clips of the SSE, and noting some things that could lead to upgrades.

AP/Durability: Most of the main cast (only excluding those who weren't there for that) easily survive the explosion of the Halberd (Smash version). I believe that can be calc'd to be higher than Small City, given its size. And before the argument of how they were all enclosed in ships comes up, three things. One, Kirby was on the Dragoon, which leaves him exposed. Two, Hocotate (or however you spell Olimar's ship's name) tanks it effortlessly, and his Final Smash involves destroying said ship. Three, the Big Blue effortlessly tanks the explosion as well. Meta Ridley can damage the Big Blue. Everyone can damage Meta Ridley.

Speed: FTL. Everything involves the Warpstar, which is stated to be warp speed (which is FTL) in the trophies (Coincidentally, Brawl, which is where all of this comes from). Kirby can easily pilot the Warpstar and Dragoon (which is faster). Yoshi runs at speeds comparable to the Warpstar as well. Everyone can dodge the two items in combat as well. Fox in the Arwing can pilot around shots from the Halberd, which are faster than the Halberd itself, which is faster than the Warpstar.

 

[Kaltias]

Looks fine (needs a calc for the first one ofc), but while the WarpStar and the Dragoon are indeed that fast, we would probably need a calc because the WS is a tad faster than the people who react to it (that for travel speed).

If the Halber is supposed to be faster than the Warpstar FTL combat speed should be good

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We see the Halberd outpace the Warpstar when Kirby and Peach/Zelda are flying on it.

Thanks for responding, btw.

 

[Kaltias]

Then FTL combat speed should be fine.

I'd rather have a calc for travel speed tho.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

40 sec

Could you calculate how fast Yoshi was moving here?

 

[Kaltias]

Uh, not sure how to calc it. Although it seems Rel/Rel+

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

These upgrades seem reasonable to me; the FTL combat speed anyway. But will need a calc for the AP & Durability upgrade.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I also did a High 6-C calc back then using Mass Energy for Game & Watch. Our standards for such things are less rough now but I'm not sure if it would be accepted still.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, do you have the calc?

The speed seems alright.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Unfortunately, I don't have the calc, because I don't know how to get the size of the Halberd without going to the Kirby series.

 

[PaChi2]

Unfortunately, I don't have the calc, because I don't know how to get the size of the Halberd without going to the Kirby series.

Could we use its canon size for an approximation?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That sounds like it could work.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Wasn't the Subspace Cannon calced at 7-B or something...? Either way that thing is bigger, so it would yield higher results.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Speed looks alright, I'll wait on the ap though

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The Halberd's size varies in canon. Best I can give is that in the anime, it's approximately castle sized.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

B-But the Subspace Cannon.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Could not the characters also be upgrade via the destruction of the Subspace Gunship?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

B-But the Subspace Cannon.

Could we calculate the Halberd's size from that?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

Aw, hell. I'm impatient. Highlighting.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No. Bad Cal. You do the opposite.

The destruction of the Subspace Cannon would yield far higher than the Halberd's, and it scales to Kirby.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I'm pretty sure that combat speed would be closer to Relativistic/Relativistic+, since the dodge animations in-game seem a decent bit slower than how quickly the Warpstar comes back down after flying into the air.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I'm pretty sure that combat speed would be closer to Relativistic/Relativistic+, since the dodge animations in-game seem a decent bit slower than how quickly the Warpstar comes back down after flying into the air.

really tho if the characters did dodge at the same speed as the warp star in gameplay would be too fast, and if the war star was that slow then the item would be useless. really tho that's a game design/gameplay explanation so idk if that actually changes. Perhaps we can find an example of characters dodging in cutscenes?

 

[ThePerpetual]

If you can find a cutscene example, that'd be fine; otherwise, that's about all you'd have to go on in my opinion.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

If we still use Pokémon trophy descriptions for scaling, Kyogre formed all of the seas with his rain, Moltres changes the season to spring from winter with his presence, Zapdos from spring to summer, and Articuno from summer to winter. Reshiram and Zekrom can also just obliterate the world, but they don't even come out of Pokéballs. Kyurem does, though, but all his trophy description says is that he is what was left over after Zekrom and Reshiram split apart.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I highly doubt destroying the Halberd would grant better results than Low 7-B. At best we could apply v.frag or pulverization to it. The results should be fairly decent, but I doubt they'll exceed our current rankings by much.

And the airburst radius formula tends to have pretty underwhelming results. Just look atthis feat of the Reset Bombs in Sm4sh that I calculcated at High 8-C to 7-C.

Of course, perhaps it's worth a try anyways.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Tis why I keep saying the Subspace Cannon is the best option for a calc. One of its side canon blasts is as wide as the Halberd.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Destroying the Halberd isn't impressive, but surviving the explosion is.

With Kirby's Dragoon feat, wouldn't that be a piercing feat?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Again I doubt the expolosion is gonna yield any good results that surpass what he have here, if it's only as wide as the Halberd. Even if you wank it and assume the Halberd is 5 km in radius you're only getting Low 7-B+ if you use the airburst radius formula. That's not even counting the fact that we'd have to cut it in half due to not being a nuclear explosion.

If you want to escape Tier 7 with this feat using the airburst radius formula, which is the only method I know of for explosions like this, then you need to assume The Halberd is 45 km in radius, and that obviously isn't true.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I did kinda say tier 6 ''at best''...

 

[ThePerpetual]

Didn't the Subspace Cannon begin to crumble apart after it was pierced? Or like, at least the front half, before Ganondorf and Bowser walked off all in a huff about it? You might be able to get Fragmentation of Steel out of that, I guess, though remember it's also probably got some hollowness, being a massive layered cityscape and all..

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

If we still use Pokémon trophy descriptions for scaling, Kyogre formed all of the seas with his rain, Moltres changes the season to spring from winter with his presence, Zapdos from spring to summer, and Articuno from summer to winter. Reshiram and Zekrom can also just obliterate the world, but they don't even come out of Pokéballs. Kyurem does, though, but all his trophy description says is that he is what was left over after Zekrom and Reshiram split apart.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Yeah, yeah, I saw it. It helps to back that sort of thing up with calculated feats, if you can, is all I'm saying...

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I see.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

This all seems fine to me but is warp speed really light speed? I just want to make sure.....

 

[Marco_Shark]

I guess no one canonically scales to Master Hand and Crazy Hand, huh.

Not even to Tabuu? Especially when they all fought together and defeated a being superior to master hand?

 

[ThePerpetual]

I mean, the moment before that, he effortlessly wiped them all, and the only reason that didn't happen again as far as I can tell is because Sanic pulled a Final Hour Ranger and busted Tabuu's wings. If anything, I guess maybe he'd get the scaling, but its superfluous as unlike A: Say, Captain Falcon, whose primary canon is inexorably intertwined with his Smash Bros. appearance, or B: Kirby, who's Smash incarnation plays a notable role in the story beyond being thrown in at literally the last possible moment,

He isn't distinct enough from canon Sonic to warrant a seperate profile/tab, and on top of that he already has an incarnation that tops Tabuu in-canon.

 

[Marco_Shark]

The thing is, Tabuu didnt use his wings to defeat Master Hand.

He retained him with his chain thingies and then used his shield to push him back, killing him.


So, even without the wings, he should be at least superior to Master Hand, who is Low 2-C.

He would just be At least Low 2-C with the wings.

And the Smash fighters defeated him, so the scaling is pretty direct to me.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics) doesn't fight with his wings either, but his Depowered key, if I recall, is him lacking wings.

 

[Marco_Shark]

What does that have to do with Tabuu?

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I'm just saying that it could be a similar case.

Besides, it has already been agreed in other threads that we won't scale all Smash characters to tier 2. though i personally see it as consistent